Deseret News | Reader comments: Money set aside for vouchers could go to education

Reader comments
Money set aside for vouchers could go to education — or roads

Insider | 1:45 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Money keeps getting poured into education, but where does the money go? It gets put into public education, but doesn't get into the classroom due to administrative costs. What is so frustrating, is the fact that teachers in the classroom make about $30k a year district administrators make almost $100k a year and some of our state education administrators are making over $120k a year. Seems a bit high! Everyone wants to gripe about teachers salaries, but no one wants to point a finger at the high costs of administration.

Outsider | 8:38 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I am like Insider; it is sometimes like pouring money into a black hole. The problem with public education is there is no real motivation for innovation or conservation. The more they spend the more they get. The only way to deal with this monopoly is to regulate it more, which hasn't really worked either. Teachers do a good job in general, but somewhere in the administration and all the extra programs we waste a fortune.

Road vote | 9:20 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

We poured enough into education, there never seems to be an end in the whining. Lets taks some positive steps to fix the roads and bridges that we have ignored far too long.

Comments continue below

It's our money... | 9:50 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Give it back!!! Stop Socialism Now!!! It's ruining our country.

Clare | 10:06 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Even though I am a teacher, I will speak up for the administrators. We have the lowest administrator/pupil ratio in the country.

Also, I know what they can do with the extra money. They can fund the complete increase in pay and bonus we were suppose to get this year. Oh, well, one can dream.

Mike | 11:02 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I love this comment feature. What is all this talk
about backlash, hard feelings, and frustration? Does
the community and legislature make decisions on
emotion or rational thought? What about the $93
million? Are we to believe that because vouchers are
dead, and the money came from the "general fund" it
will not be available for education? Are we to believe that our legislator's had enough foresight to know if the voucher program was rejected by a referendum they could "get back" at their detractors by saying the $93 million could now be used for equally important needs instead of education? If I were an alien from another planet and I was observing the goings on here, I would have to compare it to watching a group of 5 or 6 year old children on a playground. The attitude seems to be if I can not have it my way I will take my ball and go home. I hope I am wrong.

Just a few thoughts from an average Utah citizen.

Me | 11:06 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Our school system would fall apart fast without administrators. Do you think that they're just piddling around while they work 60, 80 hours or more? Their jobs are very high stress and they have to deal with irate parents, bratty kids, and people who don't understand what their jobs entail. If they make 100,000 a year (which most don't, especially in Utah), they deserve it. Do teachers deserve more, too? Absolutely. But no need to knock the administrators. If you don't understand how important they are, try following one around for a day.

V. Campanile | 11:11 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

The decision is an easy one. Put the money back where it came from.

Right... | 3:18 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

So the legislators put together an innovative plan that would have helped our education system, but it got shouted down by the unions. Now the unions want the money from the program they shouted down. I am from Detroit... and this kind of foolishness is so typical of socialist union thought processes.

I just can't understand why a state that seems in so many ways to favor free enterprise would listen so closely to the socialist unions.

Give the money back to the general fund, and DON'T give the unions any more money until they come up with a way to increase the quality of our schools while costing tax payers less (like the vouchers would have done).

Stewart | 3:27 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Insider and Outsider apparently don't understand that Utah has the lowest administrative educational costs in the nation, along with the lowest spending per pupil. I also doubt that either of them realize that the Gov. Huntsman had to help some districts find enough teachers, due to the low wages, by helping them recruit in Mexico. Not that money is always the solution, but if districts are forced to hire from countries like Mexico, Philippines, and other poor countries on H-1B because our own citizens can get higher paying jobs, we have a serious problem. Money is not always the solution, but neither is being cheap.

where are the leaders? | 3:27 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Our demographics (educated parents, poverty level, etc) should have us scoring at the top of the nation, not just above average.

We need to do more to provide better educated students for the future of Utah and of the nation. If the best tool to help our children move ahead that the union led districts can come up with is Math Investigations, and the people don't trust the legislators to introduce innovation from the private sector, then I think we are in a world of hurt.

We need real leadership... with the children and the future of our state and nation at heart (not just the teachers' interests).

Let's allow districts to fire poor teachers and administrators when they need to. That will clear the good teachers' time to teach instead of mentoring poor teachers.

Let's let the principals give merit bonuses.

Let's allow qualified teachers to teach, with or without a union card.

I suspect that the unions would not agree to these most important reforms, so we ought to outlaw the unions so we can make the changes needed.

Half full | 5:23 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Remember the points made during the debate about vouchers. Class size does need to be lowered, but cannot be accomplished without new classrooms. Use the one time money to build new schools with new classrooms. Then use the more taxes that come from more people in the work force to pay for the teachers. If you can't find the teachers, consider the the law of "supply and demand." Raise the salary and the teachers will come.

Anonymous | 5:54 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

It seems that some people have forgotten that it wasn't the teacher's union that voted down the referendum, the people that voted it down were the individual citizens of Utah. Those that voted against the vouchers thought they were a bad idea for one reason or the other.

Maybe the legislature could talk to the consitituents in their districts and find out what the citizens would like the legislature to do with the extra money. I hope that the legislature will at least fund the pay and bonus increase that they renigged on.

UtahGram | 7:23 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Since Utah pays less per child than any other state in the U.S. for education, it seems to me like the NO vote on vouchers signaled support for public education, and it seems only logical that the dollars set aside for vouchers should funnel into education. Education is not a bottomless pit, it is the investment in our children and the future. If people don't want to pay as much for education, then they need to quit having so many children. If this state continues to have children, then we have an obligation to educate them. These kids deserve a great chance to succeed. Our prisons are full of people who read at less than a third grade level.

Start serving the people | 8:10 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

The legislature needs to get over the hard-feeling thing. Their job is to serve the people, not for us to serve their every whim. That is why they are called representatives. If they were truly serving the people, there should be no reason to have hard feelings about anything.

Dave | 8:14 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

It's interesting to look at the financial circumstances in our public education system.
Apparently the average cost per student in the public ed system is about $7,000 per year. If the average class has 30 students the average cost per class is $210,000 per year. If the fully burdened cost of a teacher is about $45,000 per year, that represents an overhead rate of 467%. Most businesses would fail under those conditions.

Educate Autism | 8:45 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Utah provides less services to special needs individuals than almost any other state in the U.S. This state is seen as a family-friendly place, but we do not fund special education. My son has autism. His future outlook is almost entirely determined by how much therapy he gets at a very young age. Since the school districts provide almost no care, my husband and I pay for most of it ourselves. Put more money into the school districts so that we can have more productive members of society.

Since Utah has one of the highest rates of autism in the nation, we can pay to educate our autistic citizens or pay to support them on welfare.

We hope to leave Utah and move to a state where people care more about people than roads.

TOLD YOU SO | 9:34 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007

It never was about students and teachers. It's about POWER.

Mr. Obvious | 1:43 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007

The people have spoken. They didn't want the extra money for education. If they didn't know that's what their vote meant, they only have themselves and the NEA to blame.

A Hoosier | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007

I had hoped the vouchers would become a reality in
Utah -- U.S.A. is watching. We ALL need better schools and better parents who prepare their off spring for school and also assist for K-12 students. We are
trying charter schools with the help of our University and some elected officials backing the schools. We hope they will will work!! Home schooling is an option for many parents and IT IS working. The co-operative home school groups are amazing. How about a tax break for home school parents? They are saving the schools money while turning out excellent students who know how to work!

James | 7:46 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007

It is amazing that the majority of the public does not understand that the raises promised to the teachers last year by the legistlature has NOT been delivered yet because of a SHORT FALL in funding by the legislature! Give the money to the teachers, where it was originally promised......I like the supply and demand theory! Huntsman is awesome and a great supporter of education, but the rest of the dominate republican legislature has some accountablility to the public. Please answer.....

News Reader | 10:49 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007

James- Your blame is in the wrong place. The office of education is the one who can not count. The legislature fully funded the raise for the count they where given.

The same people who teach our kids can't count. Go figure.

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