Reader comments
Schools may not get passing grade
17 comments | Read story
GWB | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 10, 2007
The worst educational policy of the century. No child left behind shoud be
called, "Pass everybody so the presidnet looks good!". Just get rid of
F's and D's and everyone will pass!. Blame everything on the teacher
so the students that refuse to do anything, habitually misses school is never at
fault. We can't leave anyone behind even if the student refuses to go!.
Everyone must pass. Sounds like a plan I've read about in the scriptures!.
Stewart | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2007
No Child Left Behind school failures are meaningless, unless the cause is also
known. The failure of one student in certain minority classifications could
cause an entire school to be put on the failure list, and still be one of the
best schools in the state (public or private).
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 10:11 a.m. Nov. 10, 2007
Bryan Bowles is playing games at our children's expense.
If these schools don't rise to the standards, then perhaps conditional vouchers should be provided for students at those failing schools to attend a private school.
It is hypocritical and unethical for educators like Bowles to be part of fighting against vouchers, but then to play bureaucratic games with the standards public schools are supposed to meet!
What an embarassment to Utah education.
If these schools don't rise to the standards, then perhaps conditional vouchers should be provided for students at those failing schools to attend a private school.
It is hypocritical and unethical for educators like Bowles to be part of fighting against vouchers, but then to play bureaucratic games with the standards public schools are supposed to meet!
What an embarassment to Utah education.
Anonymous | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 10, 2007
1. Likewise, those students who cannot speak or read English well are at a
disadvantage. No accomodations are made for them either.
YOU NEED TO LEARN ENGLISH TO RECEIVE CITIZENSHIP
2.Blame everything on the teacher so the students that refuse to do anything. BAN THE TEACHERS UNION AND PUT A PERFORMANCE STANDARD ON TEACHERS.
YOU NEED TO LEARN ENGLISH TO RECEIVE CITIZENSHIP
2.Blame everything on the teacher so the students that refuse to do anything. BAN THE TEACHERS UNION AND PUT A PERFORMANCE STANDARD ON TEACHERS.
Anonymous | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 10, 2007
it is the job of the teacher to find a way, and quit making excuses for failing
as a teacher.
if you can't cut it, find another profession.
if you can't cut it, find another profession.
whasizbucket | 12:02 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
To Anon at 10:33am:
To receive citizenship, yes you must be able to read English. However what about all the illegals over here that enroll their kids in schools?
They don't have citizenship, but we are providing money for all the illegals coming over here. They are not required to know English.
I propose a standardized test to be administered to one class, and the other class should have individualized testing.
As for the English comment: What good are LDS missionaries that are teaching ESL when it's apparent that they aren't doing their job either.
On your second point, I agree. The teacher's union whines too much, and needs to be dissolved. Too much money for too little performance.
To receive citizenship, yes you must be able to read English. However what about all the illegals over here that enroll their kids in schools?
They don't have citizenship, but we are providing money for all the illegals coming over here. They are not required to know English.
I propose a standardized test to be administered to one class, and the other class should have individualized testing.
As for the English comment: What good are LDS missionaries that are teaching ESL when it's apparent that they aren't doing their job either.
On your second point, I agree. The teacher's union whines too much, and needs to be dissolved. Too much money for too little performance.
Anonymous | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
You can't hold ALL children irregarless of race, social status, and
disability to the same standard. It is not fair to our children.
Barb | 2:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
Hey Anonymous, come on over and try your hand at teaching for a while. Stop
throwing blame and try to fix it at our level. I am so sick of those of you who
really have no idea what it's like blaming those of us who put our
heart's, minds, and souls into education, and yes, the big, bad
"Teacher's association" (it is not a UNION in utah)! Do
something! Volunteer! Donate! Tutor! Or better - shut up and let us continue to
try and do what we can with the poorest funded system in the nation that still
tests near the middle! We take your constant rididule, your children's
incessant back-mouthing, and our legislature's inability to fund our
children's futures. Do something positive for once. Push for per pupil
funding and the end of NCLB!
NevadaTeacher | 2:46 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
"it is the job of the teacher to find a way, and quit making excuses for
failing as a teacher."
It is obviously the teacher's fault that a student is in his/her high school class that has never learned to read. It is obviously the teacher's fault that a kid comes to school having stayed up all night and just wants to sleep in class. It is obviously the teacher's fault that there are kids in classrooms that refuse to follow directions, behave, etc, etc.
Education starts in the home, not in the schools. You can't expect teachers to make up for every severe problem at home. We can help, but we can't fix everything.
It is obviously the teacher's fault that a student is in his/her high school class that has never learned to read. It is obviously the teacher's fault that a kid comes to school having stayed up all night and just wants to sleep in class. It is obviously the teacher's fault that there are kids in classrooms that refuse to follow directions, behave, etc, etc.
Education starts in the home, not in the schools. You can't expect teachers to make up for every severe problem at home. We can help, but we can't fix everything.
Seasoned Teacher | 5:15 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
I have been a public school teacher for 22 years, and to be frank, we can do
much better!
I am surrounded by colleagues who are in a rut and continue to teach in the same ways year after year. They refuse to be measured on their performance as teachers.
That is the key - Measurement. Teachers must be measured and held accountable. Our "products" are educated students! If our "products" are defective or low quality, then our methods must be improved - no excuses!
I voted against vouchers, but if vouchers is what it takes to shake teachers out of their comfort zones, then we need to revisit that proposal.
I call on Utah teachers to step up, stop making excuses, and take our profession seriously enough to measure our performance!
I am surrounded by colleagues who are in a rut and continue to teach in the same ways year after year. They refuse to be measured on their performance as teachers.
That is the key - Measurement. Teachers must be measured and held accountable. Our "products" are educated students! If our "products" are defective or low quality, then our methods must be improved - no excuses!
I voted against vouchers, but if vouchers is what it takes to shake teachers out of their comfort zones, then we need to revisit that proposal.
I call on Utah teachers to step up, stop making excuses, and take our profession seriously enough to measure our performance!
Charles H | 6:10 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
There is no doubt that NCLB is far from perfect. But it is also clear that SOME
kind of performance measure is needed. Let us remember that regardless of NCLB,
we have 5 to 10% of our students dropping out before they finish high school.
Of those that do remain in school to finish their senior year, some 25% are
FAILING at least one of the STATE mandated basic competency tests even after as
many as 4 or 5 chances to pass.
"Seasoned Teacher" is correct that teachers MUST accept some kind of measurement. We should not expect the same performance from disabled, special needs, or ESL students as we do from typical
students. On the flip side, we should not accept typical performance from gifted and talented students.
Real and meaningful school choice is ONE key aspect of improving education if for no other reason than that no one school or system will have to try to be all things to all students.
But we desperately need to devise and administer some kind of appropriate metrics of teacher, school and student performance. Teachers and their unions must stop opposing what is accepted in virtually every other industry.
"Seasoned Teacher" is correct that teachers MUST accept some kind of measurement. We should not expect the same performance from disabled, special needs, or ESL students as we do from typical
students. On the flip side, we should not accept typical performance from gifted and talented students.
Real and meaningful school choice is ONE key aspect of improving education if for no other reason than that no one school or system will have to try to be all things to all students.
But we desperately need to devise and administer some kind of appropriate metrics of teacher, school and student performance. Teachers and their unions must stop opposing what is accepted in virtually every other industry.
KP | 7:22 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
It is difficult to speak for all teachers. However, I have taught math in the
public schools for 15 years both at the jr. high and high school levels. I
think it is fair to say that most of my colleagues genuinely care that their
craft is improved and that their students achieve more.
True, there are some (small percentage) I have seen that feel their job is done during contract hours. Few other industries expect their employees to work beyond their paid day. To compare education to industry is a poor comparison.
As a teacher, I am trying to find ways to reach my students more efficiently and effectively. Learning occurs best when both sides put forth their best effort. Students must be willing to put in time outside of the classroom and ask for additional help when necessary. Parents must provide an environment for study at home. The distractions that exist today have an impact, no doubt.
Cell phones, electronic games, Ipods, etc., are everywhere. They steal from the time students used to spend reading and working together.
True, there are some (small percentage) I have seen that feel their job is done during contract hours. Few other industries expect their employees to work beyond their paid day. To compare education to industry is a poor comparison.
As a teacher, I am trying to find ways to reach my students more efficiently and effectively. Learning occurs best when both sides put forth their best effort. Students must be willing to put in time outside of the classroom and ask for additional help when necessary. Parents must provide an environment for study at home. The distractions that exist today have an impact, no doubt.
Cell phones, electronic games, Ipods, etc., are everywhere. They steal from the time students used to spend reading and working together.
Idiot | 9:42 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
YOU NEED TO LEARN ENGLISH TO RECEIVE CITIZENSHIP, If you are born in the USA YOU
are a USA Citizen. Just because your parents may not speak english and you have
never been taught to speak the language has nothing to do with being a US
citizen. If that is how you think , I would bet that you would not be here ,
because your great great family would have been kicked out. By the way do you
speak Navajo, Ute , any true native language? I bet they thought the same
way.
Future teacher | 9:46 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
To the Seasoned Teacher, thank you for a well thought out comment and for facing
reality as a teacher and putting something constructive into the minds of other
commenters. I appreciate your comments.
To Seasoned Teacher | 11:26 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
I've been a teacher in Utah for over 25 years and I find your comments
offensive and negative. NCLB is a start toward accountability and that's
great. Problems begin when you expect everyone to reach the same criteria. The
student who doesn't speak English, the neglected or abused student, the
angry student, the student with disabilities...they must perform at the same
level as the student who has a stable life? How is that fair? To anyone?
It's hard being at school and learning when you never feel safe. Have you
ever tried to teach someone to read when they're afraid? Afraid to be at
school or afraid to go home because there's nothing there but sorrow?
Measuring performance and growth is important. But we need to find appropriate
ways to do it. We can't expect the same from everyone, but we can expect
growth from everyone. Saying teachers are in a rut does nothing to help schools
or children. How about mentoring one of those teachers who is struggling. How
about being a positive influence in the lives of the staff...as well as the
students at your school instead of calling anyone who doesn't meet your
criteria of performing "defective."
One more thing | 11:43 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007
Anonymous: You've oversimplified. Don't confuse "making
excuses" with finding reasons. Only when we find reasons and address the
problems in school can we make a change. There is always a reason a student
scores poorly, it's our job to find out that reason and deal with it. One
thing the NCLB and other legislation doesn't understand is that it is
statistically impossible for all students to be reading on the third grade
level. You all remember the bell curve. By design the standardization means that
out of 100 students only one is on top of the curve and on grade level, the
others, half are above the curve, half below it. We need to find new measures
that fit our goals and stop trying to fit our students into a system that simply
will not work for them. Public schools have the resources, and the ability to do
it. Join your community council. Join the parent organizations. Become involved.
Parents who care about education, and let their child know their expectations,
tend to have children who care about education.
FYI: NCLB was legislation that began in the Clinton administration and George W made it his own.
FYI: NCLB was legislation that began in the Clinton administration and George W made it his own.
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It expects all students (regardless) to perform at the same level. Students who are tested and found to have learning disabilities do not have the same set of tools to succeed as their peers. The federal law protects them and they receive additional help through individual educational plans (IEP's). But NCLB will not allow any help when testing for it's standard.
Likewise, those students who cannot speak or read English well are at a disadvantage. No accomodations are made for them either.
By 2014, the NCLB law expects all students to pass the tests--no exceptions. How is that even theoretically possible?
If we are going to really hold schools accountable, then let's get that NCLB law changed so that the special ed and English language learners have a fair chance and discrimination against these two groups ends.