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Vouchers killed
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Broken System | 12:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I have been educated in Salt Lake schools, from kindergarten through graduate
level. I have taught in Salt Lake schools for 10 years. Our district is
progressive compared to others - that is in spite of our state legislature.
A voucher created for a quick fix, is anything but. My spouse is also an educator. At the end of the year, we are both going to teach out of state, where education is valued, not just with lip service. We have not come to this decision based upon financial need, rather for our own children who we do not want to fall prey to the decisions made by those whom we elected.
Governor Huntsman claimed that he was for public education. Is he really? Or is he for his political career? His children did not attend public schools until after he declared his candidacy for governor. Two of his children have since transfered to a Salt Lake private school to graduate. It does not seem that he 1) is for public education, 2) trusts the schools, and 3) holds education as a priority in this state. He is simply echoing the sentiment of our state legislature.
A voucher created for a quick fix, is anything but. My spouse is also an educator. At the end of the year, we are both going to teach out of state, where education is valued, not just with lip service. We have not come to this decision based upon financial need, rather for our own children who we do not want to fall prey to the decisions made by those whom we elected.
Governor Huntsman claimed that he was for public education. Is he really? Or is he for his political career? His children did not attend public schools until after he declared his candidacy for governor. Two of his children have since transfered to a Salt Lake private school to graduate. It does not seem that he 1) is for public education, 2) trusts the schools, and 3) holds education as a priority in this state. He is simply echoing the sentiment of our state legislature.
TYLER | 12:06 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
As a Republican and a former public eductation student, I say for the moment
I'm happy the vouchers didn't stand. If they truly would help
education, they didn't do a good enough job of making it obvious. My
opinion, We need to pay a lot more for more well qualified teachers. All through
high school I had math and science teachers who were really soccer, football and
basketball coaches and were in no way qualified to teach. If we would just put
more money into public schools Utah wouldn't have struggling students.
Comments continue below
Bummed | 12:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Man am I bummed. I was hoping this would pass so we could use it as an example
to improve public transportation. I�m so sick of riding the
bus with its stinky passengers and long travel times. Buses are way too crowded
and an obnoxious source of disease. I could get to work tons faster and be more
efficient at work if I could get travel vouchers subsidizing my use of taxis.
Now there will be no choices in our society. And all the public programs will
destroy the private sector. If I don�t have vouchers for
travel I�ll have to either pay the whole taxi fee or ride
the bus. Man am I in trouble. Thank you non voucher people for taking away free
enterprise, choices, my travel comfort, baseball, hot dogs and apple pie. Maybe
I�ll move to China where at least the leaders have a
conscience. Oh woe is me.
Serching for FREEDOM! | 12:24 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Our founding fathers faught for freedom! Through out the years however more and
more of out freedom is being taken away! This is just one more example. As a
parent of 5 I know what is best for my children. A SMALLER PERCENTANGE OF KIDS
LEARN THE WAY THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM TEACHES! What does that say for the rest
of them...well there are private schools that work more on a one on one basis
with the children and help them learn more effectively!It is a shame that my
right to make the choice of where my kids go to school was taken away, because
now we can no longer afford to send my kids through private school! What is next
for the crumbling nation?
Lily | 12:27 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
First of all, most of the people voting yesterday came from the so called
'third rate education'. You can't insult the voters and expect
them to vote for your cause.
Secondly, why do I keep hearing about this 'evil union'? That UNION is a bunch of school teachers being paid $40,000 a year. You're telling me that they don't care about kids and education? If they really were so horrible, they wouldn't be working for such crap pay
Secondly, why do I keep hearing about this 'evil union'? That UNION is a bunch of school teachers being paid $40,000 a year. You're telling me that they don't care about kids and education? If they really were so horrible, they wouldn't be working for such crap pay
Tax Payer | 12:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Well the UEA just woke me up. Instead of helping to raise money for the schools
extra needs. I'll help raise money for private schools to offer
scholarships. Then when a child doesn't come to school they will get
nothing.
There special fund raisers will get less money, because we will now give it to great private schools.
We will vote in people who only support privatizing education and lowering taxes. Down with pubic education.
There special fund raisers will get less money, because we will now give it to great private schools.
We will vote in people who only support privatizing education and lowering taxes. Down with pubic education.
What is next? | 12:32 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
OK. So what is next? Will the voice of the people end the drive for vouchers?
Will the legislature punish public education for UEA's involvement?
Will anyone in Utah truly benefit from this discussion?
nick | 12:40 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Regardless of our own personal positions - let's REMEMBER THE VOUCHERS and
ESPECIALLY THE REAL STADIUM ,THE REPRESENTATIVES, THE SENATORS, THE SPEAKER OF
THE HOUSE AND THE GOVERNOR when voting time comes around.
We elect these men to represent the PEOPLE. What a waste of money....
We elect these men to represent the PEOPLE. What a waste of money....
Three cheers! | 12:40 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Three cheers for our democratic republic!
In a state where legislative actions make it almost impossible to overturn the decisions of a small group of individuals (legslators) who have exempted themselves from open meetings acts, ethics laws, government records access laws, etc., and created a completely un-democratic citizen referendum process, the will of the people has nevertheless been made known.
By the way, I read the bill, the voter information pamphlet, articles and related comment threads ('til blue in the face), etc., and I found the advertising on both sides of the issue to be pathetically bad.
Nevertheless, we should marvel at this historic citizen's referendum success regardless of our view about vouchers.
I suspect legislators will respond by being cranky towards education funding. I hope not. Maybe a little ethics and campaign finance reform could be undertaken as a sort of penance for being so out of touch (or otherwise influenced) on the voucher issue.
Let's not hold our breath on that one.
Caio. I'm off to volunteer at a public school. That is something everyone can do, by the way. I work weekly with high-risk kids, teach the basics and motivate towards college!
In a state where legislative actions make it almost impossible to overturn the decisions of a small group of individuals (legslators) who have exempted themselves from open meetings acts, ethics laws, government records access laws, etc., and created a completely un-democratic citizen referendum process, the will of the people has nevertheless been made known.
By the way, I read the bill, the voter information pamphlet, articles and related comment threads ('til blue in the face), etc., and I found the advertising on both sides of the issue to be pathetically bad.
Nevertheless, we should marvel at this historic citizen's referendum success regardless of our view about vouchers.
I suspect legislators will respond by being cranky towards education funding. I hope not. Maybe a little ethics and campaign finance reform could be undertaken as a sort of penance for being so out of touch (or otherwise influenced) on the voucher issue.
Let's not hold our breath on that one.
Caio. I'm off to volunteer at a public school. That is something everyone can do, by the way. I work weekly with high-risk kids, teach the basics and motivate towards college!
Clinton | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I voted for vouchers, but I admit the plan was flawed.
If I want to send my child to another school, I should get the full amount that the state would give to a public school regardless of my income. That's the only fair way to do it. Nonetheless, I voted for a flawed plan as a first step to change; to break the strangle hold idiot unions like the UEA have on education.
Utah public schools are a disgrace and anyone who has had their children in private school knows it. Those who haven't experienced a better education for their kids need to wake up.
If I want to send my child to another school, I should get the full amount that the state would give to a public school regardless of my income. That's the only fair way to do it. Nonetheless, I voted for a flawed plan as a first step to change; to break the strangle hold idiot unions like the UEA have on education.
Utah public schools are a disgrace and anyone who has had their children in private school knows it. Those who haven't experienced a better education for their kids need to wake up.
Fool me once...Gov.... | 12:51 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
The Governor wimped out on this one. If he has any real values (other than
getting votes) he may have left a legacy of choice and a better education for
Utah's children.
One of his platforms when he ran for Governor was choice. Not only did he chose not to lead in this case, he is continually silent on the issue of charter schools.
Instead of leading he namby pambied out, chose not to be a leader, and "left the choice to the voters"
He doesn't leave the choice to the voters on any other issue.
We elected him to be a leader, not to sit back and count votes.
Fool me once Gov., NEVER AGAIN!
One of his platforms when he ran for Governor was choice. Not only did he chose not to lead in this case, he is continually silent on the issue of charter schools.
Instead of leading he namby pambied out, chose not to be a leader, and "left the choice to the voters"
He doesn't leave the choice to the voters on any other issue.
We elected him to be a leader, not to sit back and count votes.
Fool me once Gov., NEVER AGAIN!
Mark | 12:52 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Have you seen the election results by county? Not one county went to the
pro-voucher column, not even Utah County. Four million dollars or more spent
in the most conservative state in the country, and vouchers can't even
carry one county. If this isn't the voice of the people, I don't
know what it is...
porky | 12:54 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
no greater proof that our elected officials (who by a very slim margin tried to
force this on their constituents) DO NOT represent the people.
jill l. | 1:03 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I thought that this country was buildt on a democracy. I thought where the
majority voted it showed the mind and will of the people.What is this whining on
how Utah has made a big mistake by voting down the voucher bill. It seems to me
that every state in the union so far has voted down voucher bills left and
right. Doesn't that say something about voucher bills in general. Utah
isn't stupid they took the time to research the topic. Some glossy postcard
didn't influence my decision one way or another. Public funds should be
used for public schools. More emphasis on parental involvement in helping a
student suceed. Johnny can't read because you want the public schools to be
a cure all.Parent choice should come with the parent helping out in the schools
and supporting what the teachers are doing for your children.
Passion | 1:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Wow.
If you could all now just channel this tremendous and purposeful energy and passion from the voucher debate to something just as substantive, forward-thinking and critical to the future of our well-being as a society.
Perhaps look at global warming/energy consumption, living within your means or finding solutions to problems instead of armchair quarterbacking negativity from your computer keyboards, we'd be set!
Utopia!
Off to compost the (insert appropriate verbiage here) heap. Maybe you all might try the same. Does wonders.
If you could all now just channel this tremendous and purposeful energy and passion from the voucher debate to something just as substantive, forward-thinking and critical to the future of our well-being as a society.
Perhaps look at global warming/energy consumption, living within your means or finding solutions to problems instead of armchair quarterbacking negativity from your computer keyboards, we'd be set!
Utopia!
Off to compost the (insert appropriate verbiage here) heap. Maybe you all might try the same. Does wonders.
utahboni | 1:04 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I�ve just returned to Utah after 33 years on the road. I
am glad to see that Utahans have more common sense than the people in most
states.
The people who are behind the push for vouchers do not have the interests of poor children in heart or mind. They are a radical group of people from back east who are only interested in controlling the minds of the upper 15-20% of the population. Their main focus is to sell their religious and political point of view to what they believe will be the future leaders of the country.
For those people who really do want their children immersed in religion 24 hours a day, do you really know what religious teachings these people are going to be bringing in? You would be better served by teaching religion at home and church and letting the schools teach your children the subjects that they will need to compete on the world job market.
The people who are behind the push for vouchers do not have the interests of poor children in heart or mind. They are a radical group of people from back east who are only interested in controlling the minds of the upper 15-20% of the population. Their main focus is to sell their religious and political point of view to what they believe will be the future leaders of the country.
For those people who really do want their children immersed in religion 24 hours a day, do you really know what religious teachings these people are going to be bringing in? You would be better served by teaching religion at home and church and letting the schools teach your children the subjects that they will need to compete on the world job market.
Jillian | 1:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I am sorry to see choice removed from the Utah homes. I have no children in
school, but, I know that public ed needs a major repair. How many hundred
thousand dollars is spent on salary for the School Board officials that call
themselves teachers? If public school was so great, there wouldn't be
advocates for vouchers. WE have the greatest governor that we have ever had.
He isn't dumb. Is anyone listening?
Sam | 1:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
About 90% of the "sharp" people that I talked to told me that they
were for vouchers (before they were influenced by my opinion). Most of those I
talked to that were against vouchers were: teachers, their families or close
friends, or less-educated. It appears now that this cycle of low expectation in
education is now self-perpetuating.
leariver | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
What we really need from the legislators is an easier way to terminate the
services of the teachers and principals that are below standard in their
performance. In that way we can eliminate the "bad" educators and give
students a better education. As a former educator I acknowledge there is a
plethora of "deadwood" in the ranks for the teachers and principals.
Let's raise the standard of teaching and learning; let's make schools
more rigorous and prepare students for college/university/post-secondary
training. Slow down on the "feel good" approach -- that doesn't
teach students the genuine lessons of life.
Howard | 1:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
An attempt to get more money for cronys failed. If you want to send your kids
to a private school pay for it. Don't rob the public schools.
AdjustableSpanner | 1:33 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
This is a great victory for private schools, which don't need the yoke of
becoming dependent on government money.
And it's a great defeat for Patrick Byrne and Wal-Mart, who saw an opportunity to feed at the public trough by creating the educational equivalent of puppy mills. We passed our IQ test by not giving these leeches access to tax dollars.
And it's a great defeat for Patrick Byrne and Wal-Mart, who saw an opportunity to feed at the public trough by creating the educational equivalent of puppy mills. We passed our IQ test by not giving these leeches access to tax dollars.
Neal Kramer ? | 1:42 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
The state of Utah has in a loud voice rejected vouchers? No,
they�ve rejected ref 1. On this forum it seems many who
voted no didn�t like the specific law. That does not
justify getting rid of the �republican
legislature�. �Special
interest� groups are abundant in all parties. We need to
continue the discussion until we get it right.
Spencer | 1:49 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Well, good job utah. Looks like the uniformed voters know more about education
and ecenomics than Professionals at Utah State University, Governer Hunstman and
all of the legislators. WOW.
And now for your prize.....(drumroll).....HIGHER TAXES FOR NEW SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why dont you take all our money! instead of letting private companies build the school at no cost to taxpayers!
Real smart utah.
And now for your prize.....(drumroll).....HIGHER TAXES FOR NEW SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why dont you take all our money! instead of letting private companies build the school at no cost to taxpayers!
Real smart utah.
Johnny Aird | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
To Food For Thought.
If it were a true competition, I might agree. But it isn't. The public schools have to put up with a lot of Bureaucratic crap that private schools don't.
If you want to improve public schools, work to get rid of the political expediencies and the other stuff that gets in the way of teachers being able to do their job.
To California Andy:
What is more socialist than using tax payer money to give to private institutions?
If it were a true competition, I might agree. But it isn't. The public schools have to put up with a lot of Bureaucratic crap that private schools don't.
If you want to improve public schools, work to get rid of the political expediencies and the other stuff that gets in the way of teachers being able to do their job.
To California Andy:
What is more socialist than using tax payer money to give to private institutions?
Bad News | 1:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Too bad for Utah teachers, too bad for Utah students, too bad for Utah Public
Education.
Glad to have my kids in a charter school and NOT a district run school system putting out 3rd lowest math science scores, 23% of the students who don't graduate. Keep up the mediocre work!
Glad to have my kids in a charter school and NOT a district run school system putting out 3rd lowest math science scores, 23% of the students who don't graduate. Keep up the mediocre work!
JT | 2:00 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Ok.. The DN censored my first entry I assume because I called Patrick Byrne a
nut job. Although they are publishing the deplorable things he is saying as soon
as they are said. Let�s see if they are willing to post
this?
Hey Mr. Bryne,
You spent millions of dollars of your own money to try to pass a bill that most level headed individuals knew would not see the light of day. Just think, if you would have spent just a bit more money you could have setup a scholarship program for individuals to request money to send their kids to private school, paid for it yourself and left public schools alone. Truth is, your issue is not with giving parents a choice, it�s your bias against the public school system.
The fact that it was shot down by a majority of Utahans doesn't make us bad parents it makes us good citizens. By the way, what makes you the expert on good parenting?
Hey Mr. Bryne,
You spent millions of dollars of your own money to try to pass a bill that most level headed individuals knew would not see the light of day. Just think, if you would have spent just a bit more money you could have setup a scholarship program for individuals to request money to send their kids to private school, paid for it yourself and left public schools alone. Truth is, your issue is not with giving parents a choice, it�s your bias against the public school system.
The fact that it was shot down by a majority of Utahans doesn't make us bad parents it makes us good citizens. By the way, what makes you the expert on good parenting?
T | 2:15 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I'm glad that vouchers failed. Now my kids' private school classrooms
will remain small. One of the reasons we send them to a private school.
What I like about vouchers failing is that parents still have a choice. They have a choice to get a second job, to manage their money better and save, then send their kids to the school their choice.
What I like about vouchers failing is that parents still have a choice. They have a choice to get a second job, to manage their money better and save, then send their kids to the school their choice.
JEB | 2:20 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Having 3 children in college in this state, I wish the good old boys on the hill
would put more dollars into the state colleges. Tuition is going up fasting than
inflation.
Too much sour grapes by the losers in this matter.
Too much sour grapes by the losers in this matter.
Logic in Education | 2:21 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Poor Kirk and Public Education forever! They fail to see the problem is not the
teachers and not the parents' lack of involvement. The problem is an
antiquated system designed to babysit rather than educate. In nearly every
facet of business, smaller and more market-sensitive organizations worker better
than monoliths. Odd isn't that successful business people were for
vouchers? They understand competition makes for improved products.
For the proponents of higher salaries for "educators" (that is, teachers), since when does anyone suddenly become better because they are paid a few dollars more. That's not human nature. Please don't tell me we will attract more and better teachers, the current crop will hold on to the new money with both fists.
In conclusion, three cheers for the anti-voucher proponents. You won the battle! And helped lose the war. When your taxes go up, when the curriculum declines, and when your children have poorer educational and vocational opportunities because you refused to even try a change, look in the mirror and say "Thanks." While you are talking to yourself, you can also say "I like socialism."
For the proponents of higher salaries for "educators" (that is, teachers), since when does anyone suddenly become better because they are paid a few dollars more. That's not human nature. Please don't tell me we will attract more and better teachers, the current crop will hold on to the new money with both fists.
In conclusion, three cheers for the anti-voucher proponents. You won the battle! And helped lose the war. When your taxes go up, when the curriculum declines, and when your children have poorer educational and vocational opportunities because you refused to even try a change, look in the mirror and say "Thanks." While you are talking to yourself, you can also say "I like socialism."
Bad education... | 2:24 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
...begets bad education. Utah voters had a chance to break the cycle, too bad
you didn't have the courage to do so. Guess it's back to the status
quo...
Tax Payer Too | 2:28 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I was thinking the opposite of Tax Payer. I was going to vote out the people who
passed the, "take from one and give to another", school voucher
program. I am a conservative! I dislike intrusive government and big unions as
much as anyone, but I also understand how schools are funded and all of you that
said schools would gain from this voucher program really don't understand
the financing of schools.
I hope all you voucher supporters get good therapy from venting in this blog....because that's what it sounds like.
I hope all you voucher supporters get good therapy from venting in this blog....because that's what it sounds like.
Disappointed | 2:30 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
It is true, repeating false statements enough times, people end up believing it.
Shame on Utah voters by being dupped by the Unions.
Caucuses | 2:32 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
The real changes in the political landscape need to happen at the local
caucuses. Look at what has happened in Utah County special interest flood the
caucuses and nominate people that do not represent the community as a whole but
are only concerned with their special interest group�s
agenda.
Salt Lake County has the same problem, look at the REAL Stadium, didn�t the voters reject that stadium. Things will not change until we change the political landscape and that is done in the caucuses.
We can sit and complain; but until we begin to show up at these caucus meetings and elect politicians that listen and represent the people, not rule them, things will not change.
Most of the real problems arise from those elected in Salt Lake and Utah Counties, they have been anti public schools for many years, and they will do everything to ensure the public school system will fail by their policies while in office. Again, serving their special interests groups.
Salt Lake County has the same problem, look at the REAL Stadium, didn�t the voters reject that stadium. Things will not change until we change the political landscape and that is done in the caucuses.
We can sit and complain; but until we begin to show up at these caucus meetings and elect politicians that listen and represent the people, not rule them, things will not change.
Most of the real problems arise from those elected in Salt Lake and Utah Counties, they have been anti public schools for many years, and they will do everything to ensure the public school system will fail by their policies while in office. Again, serving their special interests groups.
British Lady | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I am all for a public school system that successfully educates all children to
the best possible extent and wish that the legislature would listen to the
people and put the surplus into public education, not other areas. However, the
fact is, the Utah public school system is one of the worst in this country. I
know for a fact that my third grader would be about two years behind children of
the same age in the public school system of England. They are still getting a
good education compared to many other places, but it is not better or the best
it could be. I voted for vouchers, not because I planned to change my children
from their public school to a private one but because I am for giving parents a
greater choice in their childrens education, and not leaving that choice to
unions and failing systems.
Pro choice | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I think all the voucher people should be calling themselves Pro Choice!
To: Searching for freedom | 2:38 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I'm happy to hear that I am not going to be funding your childrens private
education. Thomas Jefferson, one of the founding fathers who fought for our
freedom, was the champion of public schools. He, Thomas Jefferson, saw the
inequalitys that existed in our society and struggled and donated his own money
to develpoe the first public school in our country. BTW, Thomas Jefferson was
the first public school superintendant of the first public school district. He
did this while serving our country as President. Maybe if we could all be a bit
more like Jefferson and a little less like Searching for freedom our society and
public school system would be a better place for our children.
15 yr. educator BA CSUSB-MAT GCU | 2:37 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Sorry,
I voted no, not for some of the children, but for all of the children of Utah (including my two daughters).
I voted no to bring the focus on educational reform to meaningful, data driven reform.
I voted no to protect the chidlren from a legislative bandaid on the wrong arm of a system that needs all of our help.
I voted no to support all of the legislators whose vote could not be purchased by internet liquidation wholesalers and rich bureaucrats.
I voted no because I have a "super high IQ", a 4.0 graduate gpa and VALUES.
I would Happy to vote for meaningful reform when it comes.
I voted no, not for some of the children, but for all of the children of Utah (including my two daughters).
I voted no to bring the focus on educational reform to meaningful, data driven reform.
I voted no to protect the chidlren from a legislative bandaid on the wrong arm of a system that needs all of our help.
I voted no to support all of the legislators whose vote could not be purchased by internet liquidation wholesalers and rich bureaucrats.
I voted no because I have a "super high IQ", a 4.0 graduate gpa and VALUES.
I would Happy to vote for meaningful reform when it comes.
Small Town | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I live in a small home in rural Utah and struggle to make a modest income to
raise my family.
You wanted me to vote to use my tax money to give a $500 break to some rich guy living in a $600,000 home in Salt lake so that he could send his kids to a private school? Yeah, riiight.
Go ahead and explain to me exactly why I should feel victimized because my choices were stripped from me by the 'mis-educated' masses.
This was a Utah bill, not a Wasatch bill.
You wanted me to vote to use my tax money to give a $500 break to some rich guy living in a $600,000 home in Salt lake so that he could send his kids to a private school? Yeah, riiight.
Go ahead and explain to me exactly why I should feel victimized because my choices were stripped from me by the 'mis-educated' masses.
This was a Utah bill, not a Wasatch bill.
we won | 2:44 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
You have to laugh when someone finds out that 62% of the people disagree with
them they think we are all idiots, and they are still be right. The vast
majority has spoken, grow up and don't run around thinking you are so much
smarter than such a large majority.
Cantfoolme | 2:44 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
It's a sad day for Utah kids. We almost got them a better chance to really
get educated. But now it's the same "give us more money" so we
can waste it without being accountable system. I'm sorry kids. We tried
very hard for you. We'll try again.
RE:Sam | 2:48 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Funny, 90% of the people I spoke to who were for vouchers were angry sheep who
had no idea what the bill represented.
Most I talked to who were against vouchers had read the bill and made a principled choice.
You need to run with a different "herd".
Most I talked to who were against vouchers had read the bill and made a principled choice.
You need to run with a different "herd".
not surprised | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Of the fifty states, Utah ranks #38 on the scale of smartest states.
That's even worse than the year before, which ranked Utah at #33. Utah is
on the decline and not getting any better. You can't expect a smart vote
with that kind of ranking.
Vermont is ranked #1. They've had vouchers for over 100 years and it is an embraced part of education. Vouchers work!
Vermont is ranked #1. They've had vouchers for over 100 years and it is an embraced part of education. Vouchers work!
re:Down with Public Education | 2:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
It shows what you were looking for in a voucher bill.
More money for the rich.
Why not channel your anger to help children?
More money for the rich.
Why not channel your anger to help children?
Parent of a student | 3:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Reading Patrick Byrne's statements is further evidence that I voted the
right way on Tuesday. His words are that of a sore loser. Shaming and
disrespecting the State of Utah and parents the way he did--disrespects himself
in a big way.
Patrick S. Gonzales | 3:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
The article stated something about millions of dollars being spent on the
campaign. What's the probelm with this picture? If people really care
about education maybe they should stop throwing their money into political
campaigning and just give the money to schools.
What a waste of time, money, and effort!!!!
Millions of dollars to support a piece of paper? Asinine!!!!!!
And that was just for one bill. Imagine what would happen if the money wasted on "pursuits of power" were used to research cures for diseases or some other avenue that might last a little longer. Maybe it could be put towards higher education needs like scholarships, wages, textbooks and other supplies, or lowering tuition. You don't have to pass legislation to be philanthopic.
Maybe that would just be too much concern for our fellow beings.
Maybe I am just too much of an idealist?
What a waste of time, money, and effort!!!!
Millions of dollars to support a piece of paper? Asinine!!!!!!
And that was just for one bill. Imagine what would happen if the money wasted on "pursuits of power" were used to research cures for diseases or some other avenue that might last a little longer. Maybe it could be put towards higher education needs like scholarships, wages, textbooks and other supplies, or lowering tuition. You don't have to pass legislation to be philanthopic.
Maybe that would just be too much concern for our fellow beings.
Maybe I am just too much of an idealist?
NAACP a JOKE | 3:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
If the NAACP is behind it, I'm AGAINST IT!!! What a hypocrytical bunch!!!
Always choosing who to defend and whom not to all for their political facade....
What a joke!
Floyd | 3:32 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Spencer????
First, Huntsman does not anything about Education. He neither studied the issue and never really have supported the public schools.
Second, USU? When did they say ANYTHING in public about the Vouchers?
Third, So you are saying that 63 precent of Utah Voters are uninformed? Really, are these not the same PARENTS that know what best for their Children?
Fourth, The main reason the Voucher was defeated is NOT because Utahn don't want Vouchers, they did not like the Vocuher law. It was never well researched, it was crammed down our thorats by the "Bubble Boys" on the hill.
Vouchers could be a good thing, if the schools receiving the voucher meet the same criteria of the Public schools (credation, NCLB test,etc)
First, Huntsman does not anything about Education. He neither studied the issue and never really have supported the public schools.
Second, USU? When did they say ANYTHING in public about the Vouchers?
Third, So you are saying that 63 precent of Utah Voters are uninformed? Really, are these not the same PARENTS that know what best for their Children?
Fourth, The main reason the Voucher was defeated is NOT because Utahn don't want Vouchers, they did not like the Vocuher law. It was never well researched, it was crammed down our thorats by the "Bubble Boys" on the hill.
Vouchers could be a good thing, if the schools receiving the voucher meet the same criteria of the Public schools (credation, NCLB test,etc)
Phil | 3:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Sad day indeed, when competition dies and all cheer. My son is in public school;
however, I believe people should have a choice. Even if the choice damages the
child, parents should have the right to choose. What is next, state run
religion?
A new day for Utah | 3:41 p.m. Nov. 7, 2007
Now Utah may be ready to discuss improving school funding. Being so low in the
nation of dollars per student has been a huge source of embarassment. Perhaps
now they will consider our children and our future when they are considering our
budget.
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1. Rural schools and children get nothing and they have to like it.
2. Taxes to subsidise the rich, nice real nice.
3. Taxes that support religious education, alrighty.
4. The vouchers go to students reguardless if public education is failing them. Straight A Students get vouchers. Failing students don't because the private schools won't accept them. Give full vouchers to students with low grades under 2.0 and/or failing on end of level tests. If private schools are willing to take these kids and help them good luck.