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Are small districts better?

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Media Monitor | 1:45 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

Tiny: To your the comment that Granite District officials would not change anything "no matter what a parent tells them..."

First, Granite has changed a great deal in the last three years alone. You need to visit the high school kids taking advanced courses in the Granite Education Center. You might have noticed that Granite was offering full day kindergarten before the state began paying for it. You should have seen the dozens of elementary schools that are receiving electronic locks on all doors but the main entrance. Have you noticed that the district has the most progressive translation service of any district in the state to serve its families who speak 70 different home languages. Have you noticed how often Granite has high school seniors with perfect ACT scores? Did you remember that, following a ten-year slump in enrollment, the district restored its elementary school music program as soon as finances stabled?

Could it be that "not responding to parents" means they didn't agree with "your" request in order to serve a broader range of students?

Doubling or tripling the number of superintendents and administrators by dividing the Jordan District will only cut into funds that could help kids.

Catherine | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

We have lived in several different school districts over the years, and four of our children are now teachers. Their experience and my own (as a teacher and parent) have shown that in smaller districts a larger percentage of children get a better education, because they (and their parents) are listened to and treated as individuals. The prevelance of small charter schools (which create their own districts) in Utah is evidence that parents want smaller districts. However, it is more expensive per student in a smaller district than in a larger district, and Utahns are notorious for not wanting to pay the cost for a quality education for each individual student.

Michaelitos | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

To Pat (11:43am): Shame on you for your selfishness and myopic perspective.

If you want to talk money, why not talk about the duplication of costs surrounding administration and services that will have to occur? Why not talk about the added interest payments from the smaller districts getting worse credit ratings? Why not talk about the added startup costs estimated at $144 million?

Go ahead, Pat, forget about any sense of community in your personal quest to lower property taxes and isolate yourself within your rich, east-side town. But don't you dare forget about the lost economies of scale and added costs when you're talking money.

Comments continue below

split districts=high admin costs | 2:14 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

Splitting districts is a bad idea. Republicans and conservatives should be against splitting districts because it only creates more overhead expenses and administrative costs with less money funneling to the classroom. If we want to improve our studentsï¿½ education on limited funds, we must streamline administration and limit overhead costs. Combining and making bigger districts where possible and appropriate would create a more fiscally responsible method to help education.

Emporer Has No Clothes | 2:30 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

Mayor Cullimore is so personally, professional and politically invested in this issue. This will be a huge embarrassment to him if this doesn't pass. The Emporer (Mayor Cullimore) really has no clothes on.

Emporer's Promises | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

The Emporer has promised:
1. Lower taxes
2. Re-opening Cottonwood Heights and Mountview schools
3. Lower class sizes
4. A new middle school in Draper
5. Higher salaries for teachers
How soon will the Emporer fulfill all these promises?

Facts - What Facts | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

The real reason behind this legislation is GREED. Some people feel they can pay lower their property taxes by splitting the district. It would be nice if administrative costs per student were only $33 per student - that might pay for the principal and secretaries. Utah Tax Payers 2005-2006 reports Administrative overhead costs per student at Jordan $472, Granite $446, Davis $485, Provo $564, Weber $571, Salt Lake $528, Murray $695 and Alpine $408. Facts are facts the more overhead you create the more you take away from the students. It doesn't matter if you have a small district or a large one. If you don't educate the kids you'll pay for it one way or another. There's only so much money - it's just how you want to cut the pie. The biggest influence parents can have is to get involved at the local level - you can make a difference. It you can't get involved there, then work with your kids at home. I'm not a teacher but if I had it my way, the good teachers would be more highly paid than the administrators. Our children are our greatest assets. Bless Them!!!

Mel | 2:49 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

I know a teacher in Jordan School District, and she says that if they split, some of the teachers will lose their retirement benefits. Being a teacher, especially in UT, is hard enough. Maybe we should look at their needs in addition to the needs of the students because, ultimately, the quality and satisfaction of the teachers makes the most difference to the students.

Benefits | 3:29 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

According to the school district's Question/Answer newsletter, the teachers' benefits are only guaranteed in a new school district for one year. What happens after a new school board is elected is anybody's guess.

Emporer's Clothes | 3:40 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

You obviously have no clue what Mayor Cullimore (i.e. the emporer) has said or promised. Maybe you should actually talk to him.

Mel: Retirement benefits for JSD teachers WERE changed (significantly) by the CURRENT school board, not a future one. Teacher's needs are important too, and those with actualy experience in smaller districts tend to like them over enormous ones.

In the weeds | 4:09 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

Are we really arguing if it is $450 or $420 per "overhead"? Seriously, again we are missing the point. According to the US Census, Utah (again) ranks dead last of spending per student at ($5257) almost a third of what NY Spends ($14119)

step up and spend some $$

West Side Drain | 4:11 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

The rational for voting for the split is this: All four west-side board members voted to close east-side neighborhood schools a couple of years ago. Those four board members had no investment in the communities they were about to affect thus did not hesitate to close schools in order to divert resources to the out-of-control growing west-side. If schools have to close I want local people, living in our local communities, making those decisions. I do not want people living 10, 15 or even 20 miles away, who have no investment in my community making the decision.

I only know what I read | 4:40 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

I'm only reporting what the "Emporer" has said in print on numerous occasions.

I only know what I read | 4:43 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

I only know what the Emporer has said in print on numerous occasions.

Get new glasses | 5:28 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

#1 - the "Emporer" has not been quoted of such nonsense.
#2 - if by some miracle you happen to find or create such nonsense, why don't you e-mail him and ask him directly what he meant? - Why don't you do this anyway - just so you're clear on what he thinks
#3 - the second option, of course, requires that you beleive someone with a different opinion than yours. A tough call for many, but possible.

Leila | 6:03 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

has anyone checked out the top heavy salaries JSD gives out to their administrators go to utahsright to know website I almost fell over these people are making more than a doctor would. No wonder they are worried about their jobs, This money should be going to our kids not lining theoir pockets

West Side Story | 6:21 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007

Why should we have to educate our kids.

I like the $$$ the East side brings in.

Ouiza | 9:00 a.m. Nov. 6, 2007

The pressures placed on administrators is far greater than anyone would think. They are highly educated (most have their Dr.'s degrees) work extremely long hours (a lot more days and hours than Doctors) and are threatened with violence by "out of control" parents. They have had to take on the task of safety and security (never a problem 20 years ago), feeding poor children (breakfast and lunch) control bullying and try to comply with NCLB and state requirements. As they work to incorportate all the requirements the state and federal government demand, they must do so without extra funding. They have to choose between music and arts programs and security systems. Suddenly they are expected to be magicians and "find" the money required to comply with the new laws. Administrators work hard for their money - they may seem overpaid to you, but if they took their skills to the private sector, they'd be considered underpaid.

Oniel | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 6, 2007

I see only two things comiing from a vote to split the jordan district...

Loss of options for kids and high taxes to support a new district.

No one supporting a smaller district even has a plan. I would'nt buy a car with so little information, why would I consider risking my kids education? I'm voting "No."

Anonymous | 9:08 a.m. Nov. 6, 2007

Yes they (the admins) do work hard for their money especially when the lose millions upon millions of dollars a year.

National Financial Reputation | 9:46 a.m. Nov. 6, 2007

Jordan District has a national reputation for being fiscally responsible to taxpayers... they have never lost millions upon millions of dollars a year. Administrators typically make more money than teachers because they have the most years in the system and typically have more education. I for one, think they deserve every dollar they get. They could more money in private industry, but choose public education for selfless reasons.

Anonymous | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 6, 2007

Then why had the Jordan School District when asked for an audit in I believe the late 1990s were unable to account for up to 420 million dollars? Or that in any other audit since they have been unable to account for a few million dollars.

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Proposed Jordan District split

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