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Vouchers appear doomed
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Anonymous | 9:31 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
In all honesty, the rhetoric that scares me the most on these blogs is the
hateful venom that is spewed out about Utah's teachers. I would think that
a state that is facing a teacher shortage crisis and is paying the lowest wages
for teachers in the nation can not afford to alienate any potential teachers and
current teachers by making such hateful remarks about them. I believe that most
teachers are wonderful, caring, well educated, and highly trained people who
work for a paltry salary because they are passionate about what they do and they
care about your children. Please think twice before you belittle them.
BBKing | 9:38 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
To the teacher questioning about the value of Unions.
Admitted, the members of the Union in Utah may not be the devil incarnate. Have you taken the time to look at the values of your fellow Union members nation wide? Have you taken the time to read the platform planks and what they are trying to do? The most recent attack on families and decency is coming out of California where they are trying to outlaw the use of such terms as "mother" and "father."
And this is incredibly valid because many of the phone calls we are receiving are coming from these very Union members in California. And your dues as a teacher goes to pay for salaries and operating costs of these extreme anti-family, anti-American Union members at the National level.
We the People are fighting a losing battle against extreme attacks on traditional families and values. And you become the sweet innocent poster child that the National Union hides behind.
And these extreme Union machines are not like the teamsters, trying to get honest pay for honest work. They are about forcing values and principles down our childrens throats. That is what this is about: power.
Admitted, the members of the Union in Utah may not be the devil incarnate. Have you taken the time to look at the values of your fellow Union members nation wide? Have you taken the time to read the platform planks and what they are trying to do? The most recent attack on families and decency is coming out of California where they are trying to outlaw the use of such terms as "mother" and "father."
And this is incredibly valid because many of the phone calls we are receiving are coming from these very Union members in California. And your dues as a teacher goes to pay for salaries and operating costs of these extreme anti-family, anti-American Union members at the National level.
We the People are fighting a losing battle against extreme attacks on traditional families and values. And you become the sweet innocent poster child that the National Union hides behind.
And these extreme Union machines are not like the teamsters, trying to get honest pay for honest work. They are about forcing values and principles down our childrens throats. That is what this is about: power.
Comments continue below
Christopher | 9:39 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Our gov. received a good education at the U. of Penn, a pretty good Ivy League
school, and pretty impressive since he almost didnt make it through high school,
so I wonder if he got a scholarship there or if it was his father's $40
million dollar gift to the school; I do like our gov. and appreciate all the
businesses he is bring here, but perhaps we should follow the old fashion advice
to only pay for that which you can afford and also realize over history of world
there are many different ways of getting an education from home schooling to
public and private and everything in between. I will vote NO because Rob Bishop
is voting yes, whom I had as a teacher whose class was usually a video
presentation especially when he took Jan-Feb off to be speaker of house at
legislature, so when he says he taught for 28 years it is really like 12.5 years
with all the politiking he has in him. Utah's education will be fine
people, just need to turn off TV and begin to read and write and read Wall
Street Journal.
JBean | 9:44 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
To clarify: funding for the public school does not "go away" after 5
years.
The Public Ed budget has around $7500/kid
A kid takes a voucher, say $2,000, from the General Fund
The Public Ed money is not taken for the voucher:
$5,500 stays in the school district of the kid, while $2,000 is distributed through the whole system statewide.
After 5 years (which starts over with each kid's voucher--not just the first 5 of the program), the whole $7500 is distributed through the statewide system.
The Public Education Budget is NOT AFFECTED. The only thing they lose is the kid.
It's up to them to spend the money right. That's thier problem to begin with (wouldn't you say, teachers?)
The Public Ed budget has around $7500/kid
A kid takes a voucher, say $2,000, from the General Fund
The Public Ed money is not taken for the voucher:
$5,500 stays in the school district of the kid, while $2,000 is distributed through the whole system statewide.
After 5 years (which starts over with each kid's voucher--not just the first 5 of the program), the whole $7500 is distributed through the statewide system.
The Public Education Budget is NOT AFFECTED. The only thing they lose is the kid.
It's up to them to spend the money right. That's thier problem to begin with (wouldn't you say, teachers?)
Steven Jarivs | 9:45 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I have been delighted by being the substitute in a class when Cannon came. I
did have to hide my smirk when he mentioned that a drop out would only make
around 30K and a high school grad 45K. But it was the fact that he cared enough
to come to the school that I was thrilled with.
Yes, there are a great deal of quality legislators out there who really care about education. The one great thing about the debates here is that many in Utah were able to see the true colors of the ones who need to leave office.
Yes, there are a great deal of quality legislators out there who really care about education. The one great thing about the debates here is that many in Utah were able to see the true colors of the ones who need to leave office.
Steven Jarvis | 9:50 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Voucher not a handout,
Private schools will have the choice of what students are admitted. Florida's voucher law forced any voucher accepting school to admit anyone with a voucher. Not so in Utah. Not surprisingly, over ninety percent of private schools opted out of the program.
The only true choice even if we approved vouchers will be in the public system. The Open Enrollment Act allows parents to choose the public school, and they must admit the student if they have space. Quite a few families already take advantage of the best choice law in the nation.
Private schools will have the choice of what students are admitted. Florida's voucher law forced any voucher accepting school to admit anyone with a voucher. Not so in Utah. Not surprisingly, over ninety percent of private schools opted out of the program.
The only true choice even if we approved vouchers will be in the public system. The Open Enrollment Act allows parents to choose the public school, and they must admit the student if they have space. Quite a few families already take advantage of the best choice law in the nation.
Please, Let it End | 9:55 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I'll be glad when Tuesday passes and this whole debate subsides. The only
real "TRUTH" about the vouchers - pro or anti - is that it is causing
a huge division among the people. Rhetoric has poisoned attitudes toward public
schools and teachers. The hatred expressed in these type of blogs and
discussions around the state is at an all time high. And that hatred is being
passed on to the children most of whom will end up in public schools. Teaching
is already hard enough without even more students and parents who are bitter and
angry at public schools.
Even if the voucher issue fades (which, I'm afraid, probably won't) it will take many years to heal the bad feelings and negative attitudes. I have never been to any state or country which has a more negative attitude toward their public schools. It's very sad.
Even if the voucher issue fades (which, I'm afraid, probably won't) it will take many years to heal the bad feelings and negative attitudes. I have never been to any state or country which has a more negative attitude toward their public schools. It's very sad.
Re:DCF(Jarvis is still my Hero) | 10:05 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I understand "Exactly" what the constitution means when it says public. DO NOT tell me I don't understand it, then tell me I'm right, however, then state that your made up definition "supposedly" fits because you made up your own meaning.
The reason I quoted the constitution is that when you claim that people did not read the constitution, I felt that they deserved to read what it said, and decide what it means. That threatens your argument because it does not say what you claim.
You self-absorbed, pompous, closed minded voucher advocates think that you have the right to define words as they were not intended, and we must accept what you claim. You choose to interpret what public, choice, freedom, monopoly, and competition mean for everyone. You decide that the only solution for improving education is for us to give corporate America another way to take our tax dollars.
I "presume" that "Public Education" is one that is extended to all as it is now. Utah is a right to work state, and as such, not "Union Controlled".
Private schools are availible to everyone, thus it meets "your" definition.
Please stop shoving your opinions down everyone's throat.
BBKing Get the facts | 10:16 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Making a lot of ASSUMPTIONS without any FACTS about teacher unions. Do I agree
with everything that the NEA and UEA are proponents of. NO I do not. Do you
agree with everything that every group of people you associate with do or say?
I would hope not, because if you do that really would limit the thinking you do
for yourself. I just returned from a conference sponsored by the NEA. Funny
thing while I was at that conference I had the chance to meet many teachers from
other states, who believe it or not are family men and women. In the entire
conference there was not one single presentation given on advocating abortion,
gay marriage or coming up with another way to destroy the family unit. There
were many presentations given on how to teach students to compete in the global
market they will be dealing with in the next twenty years. There presentations
on looking at ones organizational structure and how to better meet the needs of
the next generation of students. Very subversive concepts.
You who bash the "teachers union" get some accurate information.
You who bash the "teachers union" get some accurate information.
Reply to JBean | 10:16 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I think that you have done an excellent job in showing the difference between
voucher proponents, and those against vouchers (such as teachers).
Educators, or teachers see students as children, individuals, each unique in his or her own way. Teachers struggle daily to make education relevant to the child, to create a rigorous cirruculum, and to build a relationship with each of their students.
Voucher proponents see them as a "kid" (also, a nickname for a young goat), worth $7500 a year.
I guess that is what happens when you attempt to turn young minds over to corporate America. I'd like to keep my daughters in a classroom.
Educators, or teachers see students as children, individuals, each unique in his or her own way. Teachers struggle daily to make education relevant to the child, to create a rigorous cirruculum, and to build a relationship with each of their students.
Voucher proponents see them as a "kid" (also, a nickname for a young goat), worth $7500 a year.
I guess that is what happens when you attempt to turn young minds over to corporate America. I'd like to keep my daughters in a classroom.
Republicans for Education | 10:22 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
MKirk, Sign me up for the Republicans for Education Coalition. I was a state
delegate when Olene Walker was ousted by the slicksters from the Huntsman camp.
The Utah "republican" party needs to taken back by the majority. Most
of those in power should look at the Constitution party. They really would be
more comfortable there.
Retribution | 10:35 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
The ones who are going to suffer retribution are the legislators who put us
through this whole mess even though the majority didn't want it. Look out,
your not the only ones that know how caucuses work.
Just for fun | 10:40 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Let's do a quick, non-scientific poll.
To everyone making a pro-voucher post on this blog:
If your are a paid poster from out of state blogging talking points that have been given you, and are doing this under an assumed name, just quickly, could you please raise your hand?
Just wanna get a count...
Just a second...
Okay.
Thanks everyone.
To everyone making a pro-voucher post on this blog:
If your are a paid poster from out of state blogging talking points that have been given you, and are doing this under an assumed name, just quickly, could you please raise your hand?
Just wanna get a count...
Just a second...
Okay.
Thanks everyone.
RE:BBKing | 10:49 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Wow, I wansn't expecting this.
About Getting the facts...
Uh, sorry big guy, no can do.
But, we have a ton of great made up stuff. Have you seen our new website?
Come on, we tried to do this with the legislature and the governor when no one was watching.
It's not fair to put us on the spot like this.
We've been smearing Unions and teachers like crazy.
Hey. Quick. Look over there.
Diddn't work?
Ummmmmmmmm.
We have Oreos for you...
About Getting the facts...
Uh, sorry big guy, no can do.
But, we have a ton of great made up stuff. Have you seen our new website?
Come on, we tried to do this with the legislature and the governor when no one was watching.
It's not fair to put us on the spot like this.
We've been smearing Unions and teachers like crazy.
Hey. Quick. Look over there.
Diddn't work?
Ummmmmmmmm.
We have Oreos for you...
hilden | 11:00 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
wake up UTAH: read the story again. 81% of democrats are AGAINST them. they are
nothing but another handout for the wealthy. we need to focus on attracting and
retaining good teachers for public education. vote no.
DCF | 11:29 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Wow, really struck a nerve with the local pro-Union blogger. I suggest you go
read the transcripts from the debates up at the capitol. You will find some
interesting nuggets of truth. I would post links but the rules for this blog say
that you cannot.
So when you are presented to evidence contrary to what you want to believe you completely lose your mind? I hope you don't handle yourself like that in the classroom.
The reason that even a billionare gets a $500 voucher is so that all Utahns are eligible to receive something. That means that the voucher is truly public, at the direction of those who study the law and constitution. You have an issue with that take it up with the attorneys at the capitol and those who researched it.
Holy cow your response is disturbing on so many levels!
So when you are presented to evidence contrary to what you want to believe you completely lose your mind? I hope you don't handle yourself like that in the classroom.
The reason that even a billionare gets a $500 voucher is so that all Utahns are eligible to receive something. That means that the voucher is truly public, at the direction of those who study the law and constitution. You have an issue with that take it up with the attorneys at the capitol and those who researched it.
Holy cow your response is disturbing on so many levels!
BBKing | 11:56 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
The humor is pretty failed.
I know that the Union likes to hide behind the average teacher. Most people who have been involved in this debate in Utah for any length of time know that while a majority of teachers are members of the Union, most do not participate. In an average school you have the two or three die hard Union workers, another 8-15 that show up to a meeting or two, and most simply sign on for the liability legal coverage that the Union offers.
When we state we are sick and tired of the Union agenda and antics it is not an attack on teachers. It is an attack on Union agenda and antics, that most teachers do not participate in. How many teachers showed up to your last convention? 5,000? 10,000? If memory serves me correctly a few years back it was a few thousand. That sounds great. That is a franction of your membership. If 10,000, less than half even show up to your convention. 5,000 less than a 1/4 show up.
While I am sure most teachers are opposed to the voucher, the Union frustration is reserved for only a small fraction of teachers.
I know that the Union likes to hide behind the average teacher. Most people who have been involved in this debate in Utah for any length of time know that while a majority of teachers are members of the Union, most do not participate. In an average school you have the two or three die hard Union workers, another 8-15 that show up to a meeting or two, and most simply sign on for the liability legal coverage that the Union offers.
When we state we are sick and tired of the Union agenda and antics it is not an attack on teachers. It is an attack on Union agenda and antics, that most teachers do not participate in. How many teachers showed up to your last convention? 5,000? 10,000? If memory serves me correctly a few years back it was a few thousand. That sounds great. That is a franction of your membership. If 10,000, less than half even show up to your convention. 5,000 less than a 1/4 show up.
While I am sure most teachers are opposed to the voucher, the Union frustration is reserved for only a small fraction of teachers.
UEA Mission | 11:58 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I went to the website and broke the code and got the top secret Mission
Statement:
UEA's Mission Statement:
The UEA's mission is to advance the cause of public education in partnership with others: strengthen the teaching profession, promote quality schools for Utah's children, and advocate the well-being of members.
UEA Five Year Strategic Plan
GOAL 1: Advance the Well-Being of Members
GOAL 2: Strengthen the Teaching Profession
GOAL 3: Engage in Meaningful Partnerships that
Promote Quality Public Schools
GOAL 4: Build Organizational Capacity
THE DARK ONE IS WORKING
UEA's Mission Statement:
The UEA's mission is to advance the cause of public education in partnership with others: strengthen the teaching profession, promote quality schools for Utah's children, and advocate the well-being of members.
UEA Five Year Strategic Plan
GOAL 1: Advance the Well-Being of Members
GOAL 2: Strengthen the Teaching Profession
GOAL 3: Engage in Meaningful Partnerships that
Promote Quality Public Schools
GOAL 4: Build Organizational Capacity
THE DARK ONE IS WORKING
NEA / It get's worse | 12:04 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
Our Vision
Our vision is a great public school for every student.
Our Mission
Our mission is to advocate for education professionals and to unite our members and
the nation to fulfill the promise of public education to prepare every student to succeed
in a diverse and interdependent world.
Our Core Values
These principles guide our work and define our mission:
Equal Opportunity. We believe public education is the gateway to opportunity. All
students have the human and civil right to a quality public education that develops their
potential, independence, and character.
A Just Society. We believe public education is vital to building respect for the worth,
dignity, and equality of every individual in our diverse society.
Democracy. We believe public education is the cornerstone of our republic. Public
education provides individuals with the skills to be involved, informed, and engaged in
our representative democracy.
Professionalism. We believe that the expertise and judgment of education professionals
are critical to student success. We maintain the highest professional standards, and we
expect the status, compensation, and respect due all professionals.
Partnership. We believe partnerships with parents, families, communities, and other
stakeholders are essential to quality public education.
Collective Action.
Our vision is a great public school for every student.
Our Mission
Our mission is to advocate for education professionals and to unite our members and
the nation to fulfill the promise of public education to prepare every student to succeed
in a diverse and interdependent world.
Our Core Values
These principles guide our work and define our mission:
Equal Opportunity. We believe public education is the gateway to opportunity. All
students have the human and civil right to a quality public education that develops their
potential, independence, and character.
A Just Society. We believe public education is vital to building respect for the worth,
dignity, and equality of every individual in our diverse society.
Democracy. We believe public education is the cornerstone of our republic. Public
education provides individuals with the skills to be involved, informed, and engaged in
our representative democracy.
Professionalism. We believe that the expertise and judgment of education professionals
are critical to student success. We maintain the highest professional standards, and we
expect the status, compensation, and respect due all professionals.
Partnership. We believe partnerships with parents, families, communities, and other
stakeholders are essential to quality public education.
Collective Action.
The Crisis | 7:43 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
The teachers union is pathetic. Here are some facts:
Forbes magazine (1994) clearly illustrates the growth of the teachers union and lowering of SAT results. A striking correlation.
Tenure - This is the extortion. The tenured teacher has automatic job protection and remain unaccountable to the principal and parents.
The teachers union has always voted for Democrats, who desire socialism/communism.
There was a time when you were REQUIRED to join the union to teach.
The Public School System cannot defend the continual lowering of academic performance. Their appeals are based on pure emotion and people's goodness. Fact is, the public school system started to fail us in the 70's and has been on a continual path of: lower grades, lower SAT's, brainwashing kids in school, Grade Inflation, the infusion of "alternative lifestyles" in curriculum, subjective-meaning making curriculum which is a heap of garbage.
Ask your children if they know the Founding Fathers, what is in the Declaration of Independence, The Federalist Papers, and key elements of the Constitution.
I met a recent college grad and he had no idea of the founding documents. This is what should be taught, and is not.
Forbes magazine (1994) clearly illustrates the growth of the teachers union and lowering of SAT results. A striking correlation.
Tenure - This is the extortion. The tenured teacher has automatic job protection and remain unaccountable to the principal and parents.
The teachers union has always voted for Democrats, who desire socialism/communism.
There was a time when you were REQUIRED to join the union to teach.
The Public School System cannot defend the continual lowering of academic performance. Their appeals are based on pure emotion and people's goodness. Fact is, the public school system started to fail us in the 70's and has been on a continual path of: lower grades, lower SAT's, brainwashing kids in school, Grade Inflation, the infusion of "alternative lifestyles" in curriculum, subjective-meaning making curriculum which is a heap of garbage.
Ask your children if they know the Founding Fathers, what is in the Declaration of Independence, The Federalist Papers, and key elements of the Constitution.
I met a recent college grad and he had no idea of the founding documents. This is what should be taught, and is not.
tongue in Cheek | 8:59 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
It sounds as if we must stop these two from "preparing every student to
succeed in a diverse and interdependent world."
RE: BB | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
You are right, so draw your own conclusions.
Most teachers feel that the NEA does not represent them.
That is why it is not teachers or the unions who are voting no, it is thinking individuals from many professions.
If the pro-voucher people understod this, then wrote and sold a bill to the average person, it very well might have started us down a path to educational reform.
Most teachers feel that the NEA does not represent them.
That is why it is not teachers or the unions who are voting no, it is thinking individuals from many professions.
If the pro-voucher people understod this, then wrote and sold a bill to the average person, it very well might have started us down a path to educational reform.
The crisis needs an ememy | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
You have alot of axes to grind.
Tenure is a Union issue. It protects teachers who choose to teach the constitution and phonics from administrators who want to push alternative liefestyles, inflated grades, etc.
Grind against administrators.
Tenure is a Union issue. It protects teachers who choose to teach the constitution and phonics from administrators who want to push alternative liefestyles, inflated grades, etc.
Grind against administrators.
SAD | 3:29 p.m. Nov. 4, 2007
Paying teachers more money won't solve anything! All that will produce is
higher-paid bad teachers. We need a system that holds educators more
responsible for their quality of teaching! The union protects bad teachers.
There is an answer. If vouchers isn't it, what is? Let's figure it out. Our kids are depending on us!
There is an answer. If vouchers isn't it, what is? Let's figure it out. Our kids are depending on us!
SAD | 7:30 p.m. Nov. 4, 2007
--or--
Paying teachers more might keep quality teachers in the schools and not leaving for other higher paying careers.
Just a suggestion.
Paying teachers more might keep quality teachers in the schools and not leaving for other higher paying careers.
Just a suggestion.
Competition | 1:15 a.m. Nov. 5, 2007
Preferred Option: Shut down all the public schools and completely privatize
education. Get rid of teachers unions. Decrease Taxes.
Mark | 8:31 a.m. Nov. 5, 2007
Interested that "coming soon" are the prices for "tuition fees,
books, uniforms." I wonder how soon....probably Wednesday or Thursday? I
am also curious to see if the vouchers can even be used for religious schools as
many on the list are religious based. I think it would be a conflict of church
and state to use tax dollars for a religious school.
I am excited to see the turnout tomorrow and hope that Referendum 1 is shot down. Reform is needed, but let's not just jump on the first thing that comes up. It reminds me too much of "No Child Left Behind." It looks good on paper, but how will it actually work....? Vote no on Referendum 1.
I am excited to see the turnout tomorrow and hope that Referendum 1 is shot down. Reform is needed, but let's not just jump on the first thing that comes up. It reminds me too much of "No Child Left Behind." It looks good on paper, but how will it actually work....? Vote no on Referendum 1.
KJ Hawkins | 1:15 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
I find it interesting in all the anti and pro-voucher rhetoric that not one
person has hit the real nail on the head - The only true predictor of the
educational success of a child is the mysteriously unaddressed "third leg
of the education stool" - the parent. It doesn't matter where a child
receives an education - in public, private, or homeschool - if the parent
supports the educational efforts of his child and the institution he/she
attends, the child succeeds. If the parent is not intentional and involved in
supporting the child's educational needs, including sending him/her to
school on a daily basis, and seeing to it that the child studies and reads at
home, the child will fail. It has much less to do with the building or system
in which the child is educated and everything to do with the parents'
involvement in and attitude toward education.
Toi The Crisis | 1:15 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
You complain that kids these days don't know about the founding fathers.
When you were in school there probably wasn't much to teach so they had to
hammer in some pointless things. Information has changed drastically over the
past 5,10,20 years. Did you have to worry about how to design a web page? Did
you have classes on computer programming, or were you stuck playing pong? Was
there even a math called numerical methods back then? Kids have to learn so
much more today and we're still trying to cram useless information that
they don't need instead of specializing them like other countries do. If
you want to study art, then study art, but don't force people who want to
study technology and business to be distracted.
To:Toi The Crisis 1:15pm | 9:20 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
You are un-American! If you think for one moment that the history of this GREAT
nation is unimportant or "useless"� please move
to a country where freedom is not important!
I am for change in the public schools. I don't think giving the public schools system "more" money will solve the many problems. They don't give the money to the teachers. I believe many great teachers are underpaid and many lousy teachers should no longer be paid! The administration of education finance is poor here in Utah. I read they shorted the teacher raises by $22 million dollars due to an incomplete accounting of the number of teachers. Also, the magic number to carry a class seems to be 12 or 13 students in high school. Why then are there 40 plus students in classes. It seems the mismanaged money problems don�t stop with teacher pay.
I am for change in the public schools. I don't think giving the public schools system "more" money will solve the many problems. They don't give the money to the teachers. I believe many great teachers are underpaid and many lousy teachers should no longer be paid! The administration of education finance is poor here in Utah. I read they shorted the teacher raises by $22 million dollars due to an incomplete accounting of the number of teachers. Also, the magic number to carry a class seems to be 12 or 13 students in high school. Why then are there 40 plus students in classes. It seems the mismanaged money problems don�t stop with teacher pay.
arc | 6:08 a.m. Nov. 6, 2007
Quote from a friend:
The Bill of Rights Article Ten states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. "Regulation of education is NOT one of those powers given to the federal government, but by allowing the federal government to partially fund education we have allowed them partial control.
When we stop asserting our right to determine how education within our state will be run, the federal government WILL step in and determine it for us, including what we must and cannot teach (that the
traditional family is right and proper).
When the federal government mandates that we cannot teach that (as California has just done) then school vouchers represent the way for us to remove our children from that system and teach them according to our values. The eyes of the nation are upon us.
The Bill of Rights Article Ten states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. "Regulation of education is NOT one of those powers given to the federal government, but by allowing the federal government to partially fund education we have allowed them partial control.
When we stop asserting our right to determine how education within our state will be run, the federal government WILL step in and determine it for us, including what we must and cannot teach (that the
traditional family is right and proper).
When the federal government mandates that we cannot teach that (as California has just done) then school vouchers represent the way for us to remove our children from that system and teach them according to our values. The eyes of the nation are upon us.
My Reasons | 8:40 a.m. Nov. 6, 2007
I'm voting NO. Here is one of my primary reasons.
Ultimately, if vouchers were passed, there would be a huge division among our citizens based on class distinction.
Imagine, 15 or 20 years from now, if the voucher program really took off and half of students went to private schools and half to public schools. Imagine that both programs were well funded and class sizes ideal.
Now, ask yourself, what demographic would be in private and what demographic in public schools? If you are completely honest, you could not deny that the public schools would be filled with lower income minorities. Likewise, the private schools would be filled with the middle and upper income majority. It's simply the nature of our society.
The objective of the voucher movement has to do with more than just funding. It's their desire to pull students out of the public program. As a result, we will naturally segregate ourselves based on social class. It happens in our neighborhoods and would happen in our schools. Such a result, which is almost guaranteed, would be devistating. History, from its earliest recording, has proven that.
Do we really want that? Please join me in voting no.
Ultimately, if vouchers were passed, there would be a huge division among our citizens based on class distinction.
Imagine, 15 or 20 years from now, if the voucher program really took off and half of students went to private schools and half to public schools. Imagine that both programs were well funded and class sizes ideal.
Now, ask yourself, what demographic would be in private and what demographic in public schools? If you are completely honest, you could not deny that the public schools would be filled with lower income minorities. Likewise, the private schools would be filled with the middle and upper income majority. It's simply the nature of our society.
The objective of the voucher movement has to do with more than just funding. It's their desire to pull students out of the public program. As a result, we will naturally segregate ourselves based on social class. It happens in our neighborhoods and would happen in our schools. Such a result, which is almost guaranteed, would be devistating. History, from its earliest recording, has proven that.
Do we really want that? Please join me in voting no.
NO More PTA for me ! | 12:02 p.m. Nov. 6, 2007
With PTA lining up against vouchers and recently learning that of my $5.00
membership fee only $1.65 stays in my public school, I am afraid I will no
longer be joining.
I was also concerned when I walked in my local elementary during parent teacher conference and saw posters encouraging parents to vote down vouchers. Can they openly campaign in a public building? I wondered what would happen if I hung up a "Pro-Voucher" sign next to theirs. Would I get in trouble? What makes this "okay" for them?
To think the majority of membership money goes to the State PTA and liberal National organization upsets me, particularly the part about the national PTA. They are very liberal and do not have the same family values I do.
I know some might criticize me for not supporting the PTA, but I want my full dollar amount to be spent on the teachers and classrooms locally. I do not want my money going to support a national political agenda that I had no voice in.
Good-bye PTA. You will receive no more money from me.
Does anyone know more about organizing an independent parent/teacher organization (PTO)?
I was also concerned when I walked in my local elementary during parent teacher conference and saw posters encouraging parents to vote down vouchers. Can they openly campaign in a public building? I wondered what would happen if I hung up a "Pro-Voucher" sign next to theirs. Would I get in trouble? What makes this "okay" for them?
To think the majority of membership money goes to the State PTA and liberal National organization upsets me, particularly the part about the national PTA. They are very liberal and do not have the same family values I do.
I know some might criticize me for not supporting the PTA, but I want my full dollar amount to be spent on the teachers and classrooms locally. I do not want my money going to support a national political agenda that I had no voice in.
Good-bye PTA. You will receive no more money from me.
Does anyone know more about organizing an independent parent/teacher organization (PTO)?
? | 5:03 p.m. Nov. 6, 2007
What would happen if all the voters who vote for ref. 1 uses vouchers?
deep thoughts!? | 7:22 p.m. Nov. 6, 2007
I think the best argument presented by either side is the one about who supports
vouchers. The listing of republican and democrat leaders are very convincing of
the side we should choose. I don�t know why we even need to
look at the law we will pass. I mean, if the vouchers go half as well as the
Iraq war, our education system should rocket. And you know. Democrats are always
looking for handouts. That�s why
they�re opposed to free money in the form of vouchers.
I�m sure they don�t want our education
system to succeed. They are far to liberal to want people to get smarter. They
only want to use schools to change family values.
I don�t know if vouchers are the way forward or not. We are from Oregon and went to the �best school� in our town. Yet our children have to work much harder to keep up here. The true interest should be in the kids needs. Help the poor schools first. That�s the best way forward. If your kids are not succeeding in school its far more your fault then the schools. You are simply using school as a day care.
I don�t know if vouchers are the way forward or not. We are from Oregon and went to the �best school� in our town. Yet our children have to work much harder to keep up here. The true interest should be in the kids needs. Help the poor schools first. That�s the best way forward. If your kids are not succeeding in school its far more your fault then the schools. You are simply using school as a day care.
vouchers don't work | 1:46 a.m. Nov. 7, 2007
I am a conservative who believes government should limit its influence in
society. That is exactly why I oppose vouchers. The government should not get
involved in paying tuition at PRIVATE schools any more than the government
should be supporting religion based welfares. The problem with the current
Republican party is it will support any government funding that supports its
positions but claim govt spending needs to decrease whenever it is the
Democrat's agenda. We can't have our cake and eat it too.
We as a nation believe that certain things should be funded by the government: military, roads, police/fire departments, education, etc. Of these, education is the one having problems. Why? Funding. If you look at the best public schools across the country, they all have the highest levels of funding per student with higher teacher salaries. I don't like the teachers union and unions in general, but I don't believe most of the problems with the education system are the union's fault these days. Education spending is always one of the first to go in difficult times. That is why our education is on the decline (that and lack of parental involvement).
We as a nation believe that certain things should be funded by the government: military, roads, police/fire departments, education, etc. Of these, education is the one having problems. Why? Funding. If you look at the best public schools across the country, they all have the highest levels of funding per student with higher teacher salaries. I don't like the teachers union and unions in general, but I don't believe most of the problems with the education system are the union's fault these days. Education spending is always one of the first to go in difficult times. That is why our education is on the decline (that and lack of parental involvement).
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You presume that the word "public" means the Union controlled system. In fairness to you, for the last 100 plus years it has. And they have done such a wonderful job with their monopoly.
"Public" has been legally defined as an education available to everyone. The current Union model is available to all. It meets the definition. This voucher is also made available to everyone. Thus it also meets the definition of "public."
Sadly, the Union model of education has produced an education so incredibly that...how many high school graduates of the Union system, upon enrolling in college immediately sign up for remediation? The percentage is stunning!
And remember, this is from the kids who are college bound. At the Capitol you will hear Higher Education, Board of Regents and individual college/university representatives complaining that they are spending literally millions of dollars of their budgets to teach college kids high school material.
And you think the current system is so wonderful. You need competition and BAD! You are a static monopoly that exists by power. More money? NO!