Reader comments
Utah test scores are startling
135 comments | Read story
- Page:
- < Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
Lee | 7:27 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
He moved from the Alpine School District in Utah to Colorado last year and our
children started 9th grade (High School, here) and 4th grade.
It has taken our 4th grader over a year to catch up with his peers in Math and Reading. His teacher from last year was very understanding and used extra resources in the classroom to try and help him catch up. He is now on par with the other students and doing well.
It seemed like the middle school was more focused on enforcing religious-based dress and grooming standards than helping the students succeed. Name one other school district in the country which would allow school administrators to quote religious leaders when addressing their students? Our daughter when from D/E grades to straight A's and invited into honors courses since moving.
Utah is already underfunded based on the higher than average family sizes. It is just going to get worse if it continues to be the most desirable state in the Union for illegal aliens and their special needs children.
It has taken our 4th grader over a year to catch up with his peers in Math and Reading. His teacher from last year was very understanding and used extra resources in the classroom to try and help him catch up. He is now on par with the other students and doing well.
It seemed like the middle school was more focused on enforcing religious-based dress and grooming standards than helping the students succeed. Name one other school district in the country which would allow school administrators to quote religious leaders when addressing their students? Our daughter when from D/E grades to straight A's and invited into honors courses since moving.
Utah is already underfunded based on the higher than average family sizes. It is just going to get worse if it continues to be the most desirable state in the Union for illegal aliens and their special needs children.
L | 7:31 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
To dollars and sense -
I am glad your private education went well, BUT I can introduct you to several who did not do so well. In fact I know of two brothers, one who went to public schools, the other a private school. In this case the one who went to public school is not only smarter, but has more personality, ability and a much better job.
Was it the difference in the schools, the involvement of the parents, the costs or in this case the individual?
In my experience a private school does not always make a superior student.
To those talking about the "hold harmless" provision in the law for public schools, remember it says 5 years and certain costs will continue in those schools (like heating) the building regardless of the number of students.
I don't really think the vouchers will bankrupt the schools, but I don't think it is wise to start paying for individulas private choices with public money. I liked the comparison of taking a cab by choice instead of Trax, should I get a voucher because of my choice - the cab is faster & reduces crowds on Trax or public busses.
I am glad your private education went well, BUT I can introduct you to several who did not do so well. In fact I know of two brothers, one who went to public schools, the other a private school. In this case the one who went to public school is not only smarter, but has more personality, ability and a much better job.
Was it the difference in the schools, the involvement of the parents, the costs or in this case the individual?
In my experience a private school does not always make a superior student.
To those talking about the "hold harmless" provision in the law for public schools, remember it says 5 years and certain costs will continue in those schools (like heating) the building regardless of the number of students.
I don't really think the vouchers will bankrupt the schools, but I don't think it is wise to start paying for individulas private choices with public money. I liked the comparison of taking a cab by choice instead of Trax, should I get a voucher because of my choice - the cab is faster & reduces crowds on Trax or public busses.
Comments continue below
Robert T | 10:12 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
This article is perfect!
We have heard for months now in this voucher debate how wonderful Utah education is and now we have evidence that the beauty is fake.
Sadly, this story should have been run a couple months back, before the Union had everyone believing in Santa Claus.
Now we get to see referendum 1 defeated, back to the status quo of poor standards, poor expectations and the never ending excuse that money buys love.
Time to wake up. The money excuse is just that, an excuse.
If we did what the Union wanted, place a 100% tax on every citizen in the state, provide $15,000 per student, then watched as test scores continued to decline, what would the next excuse be?
If money solved this problem Washington DC would have the highest test scores in the nation. Or is it New Jersey this year. In either case, providing almost $15,000 per student. In fact, they have scores even worse than ours.
Utah has been conned again by the Union message. When will we ever learn?!
Fine, the Union wins this. Time to shut the Union down in other ways. They are ruining education in Utah.
We have heard for months now in this voucher debate how wonderful Utah education is and now we have evidence that the beauty is fake.
Sadly, this story should have been run a couple months back, before the Union had everyone believing in Santa Claus.
Now we get to see referendum 1 defeated, back to the status quo of poor standards, poor expectations and the never ending excuse that money buys love.
Time to wake up. The money excuse is just that, an excuse.
If we did what the Union wanted, place a 100% tax on every citizen in the state, provide $15,000 per student, then watched as test scores continued to decline, what would the next excuse be?
If money solved this problem Washington DC would have the highest test scores in the nation. Or is it New Jersey this year. In either case, providing almost $15,000 per student. In fact, they have scores even worse than ours.
Utah has been conned again by the Union message. When will we ever learn?!
Fine, the Union wins this. Time to shut the Union down in other ways. They are ruining education in Utah.
Re:Lee from DOUG BAILEY | 10:22 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Are we adults so blind and wanting to complain that everything is wrong.
So your son moved from out of state (Colorado) to Utah and had to catch up.
Utah does not align their curriculum with Colorado and vice versa. He was probably working off a different page of a different book, different concept, different curriculum. When a student moves state to state they might even be in a French class and move to a school that offers German and Spanish.
I am really just plain blown away at what you complain about. No wonder you parents have educators pulling their hair out. My friends father quit teaching, and he was one of our favorite teachers. We couldn't understand why he quit, and he said it was the parents, not the kids. I understood what he meant, but know i can see it clear as day. I am glad that I took his advice and went after my MBA. I was getting A's in college, so according to Juan, I couldn't be a teacher unless I dropped down to a "C" gpa.
You parents are the problem, not vouchers. I guess vouchers put some coin in your pockets though.
So your son moved from out of state (Colorado) to Utah and had to catch up.
Utah does not align their curriculum with Colorado and vice versa. He was probably working off a different page of a different book, different concept, different curriculum. When a student moves state to state they might even be in a French class and move to a school that offers German and Spanish.
I am really just plain blown away at what you complain about. No wonder you parents have educators pulling their hair out. My friends father quit teaching, and he was one of our favorite teachers. We couldn't understand why he quit, and he said it was the parents, not the kids. I understood what he meant, but know i can see it clear as day. I am glad that I took his advice and went after my MBA. I was getting A's in college, so according to Juan, I couldn't be a teacher unless I dropped down to a "C" gpa.
You parents are the problem, not vouchers. I guess vouchers put some coin in your pockets though.
almost didn't graduate | 10:25 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
It's important to note that with referendum 1, the money for vouchers will
come from the general funds, not the education budget. The public schools will
keep all the money they've already had, but per-student funding will
increase.
We have enough money, the problem is that its being spent in the wrong places. Our state education budget is 3.5 BILLION DOLLARS. Where is it going? Sports teams, computers, clubs, etc. I'm not saying we should take extra-curricular activities out of schools, I'm saying we should use the education budget for EDUCATION. More specifically, QUALITY TEACHERS. There are far too few good teachers in public schools right now. I can only remember 5 teachers throughout middle school and high school that seemed to love what they were doing and in turn made me love learning. I almost didn't graduate because senior year I hated school and had no motivation to go to class.
This HAS to change. And "classroom teacher", you are RIGHT! Bringing competition to schools will force the school board to provide quality education or else face the chance of losing all their students.
We have enough money, the problem is that its being spent in the wrong places. Our state education budget is 3.5 BILLION DOLLARS. Where is it going? Sports teams, computers, clubs, etc. I'm not saying we should take extra-curricular activities out of schools, I'm saying we should use the education budget for EDUCATION. More specifically, QUALITY TEACHERS. There are far too few good teachers in public schools right now. I can only remember 5 teachers throughout middle school and high school that seemed to love what they were doing and in turn made me love learning. I almost didn't graduate because senior year I hated school and had no motivation to go to class.
This HAS to change. And "classroom teacher", you are RIGHT! Bringing competition to schools will force the school board to provide quality education or else face the chance of losing all their students.
David in Colorado | 10:41 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Am I the only one wondering what was measured here? The test is the
"National Assessment of Educational Progress." So, is this a measure
of overall performance, or a progress percentage. If it is the second
definition, education in Utah may be doing pretty well when measured in terms of
absolute performance, but not improving as rapidly as other locations. Would
that necessarily be bad, especially if you were already performing at a high
level?
I think that the article did not do a very good job of explaining the assumptions. I left feeling like it was written with an agenda in mind.
I think that the article did not do a very good job of explaining the assumptions. I left feeling like it was written with an agenda in mind.
DOUG BAILEY | 10:42 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I do hope that you get your vouchers. You all are like a bunch of whiney kids
that don't get your way because your parents know it will hurt you, but
they give in, hoping that you will learn a lesson.
So you pocket your $500 from the state, cause of course you lease a BMW, but can't really afford private school, but they get in, and you're out to lunch gloating with "Biff", when you get a call, Mr. retired MBA at the private school really can't teach your son calculus, and he is failing, he really didn't have an MBA like it said on his padded resume, you get angry and pull him out of the school and take him back to the public school. Where is the Calc teacher, Mr. Jones, at least "he" could teach. Oh, he moved to Colorado? Doubled his salary? Oh, OK. How is Mr. Argafeton at Calc. Temporary license for two years, OK, at least maybe he can pick it up after he graduates, at UVSC. Oh, the test to get in. I hope he passes. I need to get back to luch. I say enroll him. Let's pull the trigger.
So you pocket your $500 from the state, cause of course you lease a BMW, but can't really afford private school, but they get in, and you're out to lunch gloating with "Biff", when you get a call, Mr. retired MBA at the private school really can't teach your son calculus, and he is failing, he really didn't have an MBA like it said on his padded resume, you get angry and pull him out of the school and take him back to the public school. Where is the Calc teacher, Mr. Jones, at least "he" could teach. Oh, he moved to Colorado? Doubled his salary? Oh, OK. How is Mr. Argafeton at Calc. Temporary license for two years, OK, at least maybe he can pick it up after he graduates, at UVSC. Oh, the test to get in. I hope he passes. I need to get back to luch. I say enroll him. Let's pull the trigger.
M.L. | 10:48 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
The article states that Utah has the lowest test score out of five states. What
about the other 45? We are above the average which at least is a start,
especially when we are dead last in student funding per pupil, class sizes, and
teacher salary. I think Utah's teachers are working their tails off to
stay above average with all the odds against them. Can we blame our doctors for
the increase in obesity in the country? Is your dentist at fault for your
cavities? Our schools do need more support, but as far as I can see, the
vouchers are strictly for the Rich! $3000 isn't enough to put a child in
a private school without a sizeable subsidy by the parents and I know most
can't afford it.
DOUG BAILEY | 10:52 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Yep, the competition was really good, and it was worth the experiment. Many
private schools have gone bankrupt since Bob Bennett's big K-12 Corp. came
in with it's millions in government grants. It costs so much, but public ed
nowadays is nothing more than a skeleton for the poorest of the poor.
But industry and competition are good. Look what they have done for our roads, our lakes, our streams, our skies.
Corporations care for us because we are consumers, and if they cn make a buck off us, then that makes them care. Getting an education should be like buying a used car. Easy to do, and from someone you trust.
I hope so very bad that you listen to Joe, Jerry, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Teacher's son, retired teacher and all the other paid posters that made each of you so afraid, and greedy to get that govt. $500 in your pocket that you sold away your childs birthright.
My girlfriend's parents live in North Carolina. I'm going to work for him. They live in a small town. We are going to have kids as far away as we can get.
Everyone, vote yes on the experiment!!!
But industry and competition are good. Look what they have done for our roads, our lakes, our streams, our skies.
Corporations care for us because we are consumers, and if they cn make a buck off us, then that makes them care. Getting an education should be like buying a used car. Easy to do, and from someone you trust.
I hope so very bad that you listen to Joe, Jerry, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Teacher's son, retired teacher and all the other paid posters that made each of you so afraid, and greedy to get that govt. $500 in your pocket that you sold away your childs birthright.
My girlfriend's parents live in North Carolina. I'm going to work for him. They live in a small town. We are going to have kids as far away as we can get.
Everyone, vote yes on the experiment!!!
To: Robert T from DOUG BAILEY | 11:07 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Trust me, Washington DC is a dangerous place no one wants their children to be.
Most of the money is used on keeping the children safe.
I mentioned to a friend of mine from California about the American Fork Pheasant game.
He replied: "I am concerned about the state of Utah. They are concerned about the fans witnessing a pheasant being stomped on twice and then watching the opposing administrator disposing of the bird.
If these people were in Rialto, they might have witnessed a student being stabbed to death in the high school parking lot of my High School on three different occassions back in the late 80's/ early 90's when I was playing ball.
Nobody wrote an article about that. Nobody blamed Edna, who was our principal at the time for being cruel to humans. RPD disposed of the bodies I guess. The oppossing administrators were smart enough to stay out of our parking lot."
You cannot compare Utah to other places. I cannot allow you to continue to bad mouth education in Utah. Those teachers work hard, and there are more than four or five per school. Get the $$$ sign out of your eyes.
I mentioned to a friend of mine from California about the American Fork Pheasant game.
He replied: "I am concerned about the state of Utah. They are concerned about the fans witnessing a pheasant being stomped on twice and then watching the opposing administrator disposing of the bird.
If these people were in Rialto, they might have witnessed a student being stabbed to death in the high school parking lot of my High School on three different occassions back in the late 80's/ early 90's when I was playing ball.
Nobody wrote an article about that. Nobody blamed Edna, who was our principal at the time for being cruel to humans. RPD disposed of the bodies I guess. The oppossing administrators were smart enough to stay out of our parking lot."
You cannot compare Utah to other places. I cannot allow you to continue to bad mouth education in Utah. Those teachers work hard, and there are more than four or five per school. Get the $$$ sign out of your eyes.
Not angry-just in dispair | 11:15 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I am a public school teacher who doesn't really know what will be the best
answer. I face a variety of students and a variety of abilities every day. The
problem I see is when I get to know the kids and learn of their problems at
home, then the struggling makes sense.
On any given day, I have students who have not seen EITHER parent for a couple of days, yet get themselves and their siblings to school on time, but without homework. Another student appeared in court, but the parent was too drunk to be of help to the judge. My students face pregnancy/parenthood, racism, divorcing parents, poverty. And the stories go on: abusive, fanatic, or uncaring families cause much stress for my students.
I really feel that a lot of the problems in education are a direct result of the problems at home. It is no wonder to me that my "good" students have attentive parents and strong family support. I have yet to see more than 10 parents per parent teacher conference and I usually teach around 100 students. Those good students have parent involvement...bad students don't...BIG SURPRISE. Our kids need help at home, first!
On any given day, I have students who have not seen EITHER parent for a couple of days, yet get themselves and their siblings to school on time, but without homework. Another student appeared in court, but the parent was too drunk to be of help to the judge. My students face pregnancy/parenthood, racism, divorcing parents, poverty. And the stories go on: abusive, fanatic, or uncaring families cause much stress for my students.
I really feel that a lot of the problems in education are a direct result of the problems at home. It is no wonder to me that my "good" students have attentive parents and strong family support. I have yet to see more than 10 parents per parent teacher conference and I usually teach around 100 students. Those good students have parent involvement...bad students don't...BIG SURPRISE. Our kids need help at home, first!
Dear Dispair | 11:32 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Maybe these parents would take a better interest in their children if they knew
there was $3000 in it for them.
I'm not saying private schools. Their parents would never take the time to register them and see that they got to a private school. Public school is their only hope.
But if the parents made $250 per mo ($3000 a year) to tell the kids they loved them, help them with their homework, fix breakfast every morning, and knew they would lose the cash, maybe they would be a better parent.
Maybe it's not give the money to schools, or businesses, or teachers, but pay parents to be parents.
that's an experiment I would vote for.
I'm not saying private schools. Their parents would never take the time to register them and see that they got to a private school. Public school is their only hope.
But if the parents made $250 per mo ($3000 a year) to tell the kids they loved them, help them with their homework, fix breakfast every morning, and knew they would lose the cash, maybe they would be a better parent.
Maybe it's not give the money to schools, or businesses, or teachers, but pay parents to be parents.
that's an experiment I would vote for.
Makes weird sense | 11:51 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
We pay schools to do the jobs of many of us as parents.
It's wrong, but they have to. Can't just let a child be a cipher in the snow.
Let's pay the parents, if we really want to fix things.
If not pay, how about a fine?
It's wrong, but they have to. Can't just let a child be a cipher in the snow.
Let's pay the parents, if we really want to fix things.
If not pay, how about a fine?
jtm | 1:22 a.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I'm a high school coach who made $500.00 for working with kids everyday
after school and on weekends for three months. Don't you dare claim we are
wasting money for athletics. Coaches are the best bargin on the planet, my
coahces pay works out to about 50 cents an hour. We do it because we love these
kids.
No on 1 | 1:24 a.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I say no on 1. There are some people posting in here that have children, and
I'm sure that I don't want them to send there kids to school with
mine.
Janey | 3:40 a.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I smell a big rat in this article. How odd that this would come up barely
before the elections so that there would not be enough time to make a complete
research for ourselves as to the intention and validity of this piece. Are we
getting some last minute tweaking and manipulation from the news staff? Surely
they are objective people who would not dream of swaying the huge percentage of
their subscribers. Why, surely they have their arm around both the pro-voucher
and anti-voucher shoulders and with a smile tell us to be kind to each other.
They never would print an article to manipulate us - no, no, no, because only
tablids do that.
School Teacher | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 3, 2007
I am a fourth grade school teacher and I will tell you some of the problems: 1.
No child left behind. I probably have 6 children who fit into this category,
some of them English Language learners. I would say over half of our money and
resources go into help these children succeed. Believe me when I say I have
busted my hind end trying to help them achieve the minimum ou their test scores.
Guess what-they didn't. Now, what about the other 22 children in my
class. Because of time constraints, I have to teach the majority of these kids,
which most of them fall into the middle category. None of our resources ever go
to helping those at the top. We simply don't have the time, so they sit in
class bored most of the time. W can't group them because the low and
mediocre come out in droves protesting because their students need the role
models. We are the only country that doesn't ability group. 2. Homework.
You can't believe the protest I get from parents if their children have
homework. It cuts into their soccer, gymnastics, TV time. I could go on but
out of space.
Robert T | 12:04 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Bailey, your response makes no sense at all. You obviously have not been
following this dicussion and so you come up with some disfunctional story about
stabbings 20 years ago? What are you talking about?
Just to catch you to speed. The Union has been saying that education in Utah is wonderful. And instead of doing vouchers we should just spend more money in the Union system.
This story demonstrates that all is not well in Zion. And as for the money arguement, plenty of states spend far more per pupil and have horrible systems. Success in education is not going to be achieved by drastic tax increase to provide the level of funding dreams of.
It is the Union with money in their eyes, not me.
Please, pay attention to the debate so your comments remain in context.
Just to catch you to speed. The Union has been saying that education in Utah is wonderful. And instead of doing vouchers we should just spend more money in the Union system.
This story demonstrates that all is not well in Zion. And as for the money arguement, plenty of states spend far more per pupil and have horrible systems. Success in education is not going to be achieved by drastic tax increase to provide the level of funding dreams of.
It is the Union with money in their eyes, not me.
Please, pay attention to the debate so your comments remain in context.
Janey | 6:39 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Dear Robert T, I read Bailey's comments and then I read yours. Now you
seem like an extremely intelligent person. However, in the spirit of this whole
debate I can understand where Bailey is coming from and am confused that you
don't He only means that we are lucky our kids are in Utah instead of a
place like Washington DC where much school money is being spent to keep kids and
teachers safe at school. You are right that we have improvements to make.
However, since you dislike the "Union" so much, how would you
immediately ensure that the thousands of hard-working teachers would get a
decent compensation and not the "sweat-box" wages with no one to stand
up for them? How do you maintain job security? The public schools have steadily
made improvements in the last several years and have added expensive computer
equipment, ALPS, hard work with the kids with special needs, i.e. language, and
help for troubled and ill students. Public school offers so many choices
it's hard to name them all. Why are you so bitter? Did you not get a hug
when you were little?
I say this nicely with respect for your intelligence.
I say this nicely with respect for your intelligence.
dennis | 6:42 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
The state of education in America is in deep trouble. It's even worse in
Utah.
I can't tell you how sorry I feel for our children who deserve much, much more than they are getting.
I can't tell you how sorry I feel for our children who deserve much, much more than they are getting.
Teachermom | 7:00 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
As a student teacher, I would like to post some observations I have made on a
daily basis that might be of some insight to public education.
I myself am a product of the public school system. I attended Bingham High school in the Jordan school district some 15+ years ago. I had a very positive school experience. School was filled with classes that made my mind stretch and grow. (Honors courses and AP classes with teachers who wanted us to excell. Like Mr. Crump- BHS History teacher.)
As a student teacher I am disgusted with the class sizes in our rural school district. The class size usually ranges from 30 to 40 students per teacher. This alone is outrageous! The problem is I live in a rural school district with little money for extras. Not extra computers or gadgets, but extra teachers, and school buildings. With the large class sizes, due mainly to population growth, the school district can't keep up.
More
I myself am a product of the public school system. I attended Bingham High school in the Jordan school district some 15+ years ago. I had a very positive school experience. School was filled with classes that made my mind stretch and grow. (Honors courses and AP classes with teachers who wanted us to excell. Like Mr. Crump- BHS History teacher.)
As a student teacher I am disgusted with the class sizes in our rural school district. The class size usually ranges from 30 to 40 students per teacher. This alone is outrageous! The problem is I live in a rural school district with little money for extras. Not extra computers or gadgets, but extra teachers, and school buildings. With the large class sizes, due mainly to population growth, the school district can't keep up.
More
Teacher mom | 7:04 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
If I had a genie bottle and could make one wish for public education it would be
to create a track system. Our district currently has no honors classes for our
best and brightest pupils. Sure we have AP courses and college courses for high
school students, but no programs for K-9. Why not make some changes in our
overall programs to create competition with parents and students themselves?
Those who were in a college track could be in classes with other students who
like to learn and care about education. Those who are not on the college track
could work harder to get into a college program bringing more parents into the
picture. This would be a win win situation for everyone.
I know however that in our dead-end education system, where no one likes to try anything new, this will never happen. Why? Because too many people like the status quo. Too many of us worry that it won't be MY child who makes it to the top. We live in a day and age of too much political correctness. More
I know however that in our dead-end education system, where no one likes to try anything new, this will never happen. Why? Because too many people like the status quo. Too many of us worry that it won't be MY child who makes it to the top. We live in a day and age of too much political correctness. More
Teacher mom | 7:05 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007
Instead of doing something right, we worry too much about our own pride and
feelings rather than what might be right for someone else.
I would love a track system to brighten and shine our smartest and best.
Continued- As a mother of six, I have all types of students as children. Two of my children are in the "over achiever" class that struggle being in classes with peers who could care less. I also have both middle of the road children who like school, but don't love it. I also have a child who struggles and needs the extra tutoring the school offers.
I know that my wish for public ed will not come true, because we as a society are too frightened to do what is right for everyone.
I would love a track system to brighten and shine our smartest and best.
Continued- As a mother of six, I have all types of students as children. Two of my children are in the "over achiever" class that struggle being in classes with peers who could care less. I also have both middle of the road children who like school, but don't love it. I also have a child who struggles and needs the extra tutoring the school offers.
I know that my wish for public ed will not come true, because we as a society are too frightened to do what is right for everyone.
Spending? | 9:38 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
I live in Minnesota but was educated in Utah. We spend nearly $10k per student
here and I would send my kids to school in Utah in a heartbeat if it were
possible. Money is not a panacea, in fact it is more of a symptom of the
problem. Everyone is looking for a dollar instead of how to use it wisely. Our
teachers here average $50K a year and I wouldn't think that more than a
dozen that I have dealt with deserve it. If teachers here were paid based on
performance like non-government jobs were, they would be out on the street.
Because of the high wages, the role of teacher in MN has become a haven for
untalented and unmotivated hacks who bring down the great teachers we have
here.
I caution Utahns to worry less about acquiring a buck to spend and show us a list of what would be done with the buck once it was had. Would it be like MN and go straight to teachers? Great at first but then I think you know what happens when the UEA gets involved.
Focus on teaching and how to teach, less on $$$.
I caution Utahns to worry less about acquiring a buck to spend and show us a list of what would be done with the buck once it was had. Would it be like MN and go straight to teachers? Great at first but then I think you know what happens when the UEA gets involved.
Focus on teaching and how to teach, less on $$$.
Reality is harsh sometimes | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 4, 2007
If we were to take the red pill (reference to the Matrix) and see the real world
around us, we would see that there is not a huge issue here. We have a lot of
busy bodies who want to create an issue, but non-issues still the same.
Reality - the world still needs ditch diggers, and those kids who don't care will never care, and will at some point in their life end up digging ditches for a living. NOT A BAD THING! We all have things we can excel at, and we should be condemned fro what we can do.
I say be experimental, spend money on new programs, look around the world to see what is done there and change the laws to accomodate change. For example:
Japan has very high test scores for HS seniors, why? Because if you don't pass certain tests at a younger age you never become a HS senior. You go to a trade school and learn something else useful to you instead of being forced to learn from books.
England does a similar thing, you are done at 16, from there you prepare for university.
EXPLORE! what more can I say?
Reality - the world still needs ditch diggers, and those kids who don't care will never care, and will at some point in their life end up digging ditches for a living. NOT A BAD THING! We all have things we can excel at, and we should be condemned fro what we can do.
I say be experimental, spend money on new programs, look around the world to see what is done there and change the laws to accomodate change. For example:
Japan has very high test scores for HS seniors, why? Because if you don't pass certain tests at a younger age you never become a HS senior. You go to a trade school and learn something else useful to you instead of being forced to learn from books.
England does a similar thing, you are done at 16, from there you prepare for university.
EXPLORE! what more can I say?
robin hood | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 5, 2007
hey. im in eighth grade this year, and i took that test. i didnt do too bad,
the test was actually rather simple. but the fact that it's a test just
makes you mad. who wants to spend a week of homeroom being tested? grrrr..
but on the educational standpoint, i think we ought to evaluate classes. i saw the one comment about pumpkin carving in math class. yes, that's dumb. but often teachers plug some educational value into activities. my math teacher gave us a pattern for a geometric design using the letters of our name. we had some fun with math, but it wasn't hard and frustrating or anything like that. it was FUN but we still learned.
one thing i DO wanna say though is that students could be doing so much more. we need to take time to look at students who are ahead or behind and put them in a better class. sometimes even just switching the class period can help. all it would take is a little effort and so many grades could be changed. if you're so concerned, let's see you do something to change it.
but on the educational standpoint, i think we ought to evaluate classes. i saw the one comment about pumpkin carving in math class. yes, that's dumb. but often teachers plug some educational value into activities. my math teacher gave us a pattern for a geometric design using the letters of our name. we had some fun with math, but it wasn't hard and frustrating or anything like that. it was FUN but we still learned.
one thing i DO wanna say though is that students could be doing so much more. we need to take time to look at students who are ahead or behind and put them in a better class. sometimes even just switching the class period can help. all it would take is a little effort and so many grades could be changed. if you're so concerned, let's see you do something to change it.
Who's the big money behind | 11:12 a.m. Nov. 5, 2007
Everyone that's for vouchers keeps mentioning the unions being the money
from outside the state against vouchers...Who or what is the big money from
outside the state supporting vouchers...It's there...What's their
agenda?
It suprises me that this bill is being supported by Republicans...The party that's supposed to be against socialism...Which is what the voucher program is...Socialism! Republicans for vouchers? Doesn't make sense. Oh wait it's socialism for the wealthy...It will benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor...Never mind!
It suprises me that this bill is being supported by Republicans...The party that's supposed to be against socialism...Which is what the voucher program is...Socialism! Republicans for vouchers? Doesn't make sense. Oh wait it's socialism for the wealthy...It will benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor...Never mind!
Who's at fault? | 2:31 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
As much as Utah would like to boast of strong families, that's not always
the case.
I assure you, regardless of what state you reside in, regardless of whether your child is in private or public school, regardless of the class size, if you don't sit down with your child and get involved in their homework/schoolwork they will fall behind.
You can blame the program and teachers all you want but until you truly get involved, your child will fall behind. It simply isn't enough to casually ask them how their homework is coming or what they learned in school. They need one-on-one time with a parent.
I know that the majority of parents in Utah are involved in their childs education but far too many are not. I've been in your homes and watched you get on the internet while your child was in the other room doing their homework alone. I watched you go out for the evening and tell your kids to make sure they got their homework done. I've seen you glued to the television.
Parents: Stop blaming the teachers and schools for what you are failing to do.
I assure you, regardless of what state you reside in, regardless of whether your child is in private or public school, regardless of the class size, if you don't sit down with your child and get involved in their homework/schoolwork they will fall behind.
You can blame the program and teachers all you want but until you truly get involved, your child will fall behind. It simply isn't enough to casually ask them how their homework is coming or what they learned in school. They need one-on-one time with a parent.
I know that the majority of parents in Utah are involved in their childs education but far too many are not. I've been in your homes and watched you get on the internet while your child was in the other room doing their homework alone. I watched you go out for the evening and tell your kids to make sure they got their homework done. I've seen you glued to the television.
Parents: Stop blaming the teachers and schools for what you are failing to do.
RE" Who's at fault? | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
Who are you, Santa Clause or the CIA?
My kid is on the honor roll | 4:28 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
My kid doesn't need a private school to be successful in life. Nobody
really does. I know this sounds cheesey, but success will come from within. This
is the truest thing I've ever heard hillary clinton say. she said that
vouchers don't help anybody, rather, they hurt communities. People who are
destined for success will find it no matter what school they go to.
Ummmm | 7:01 p.m. Nov. 5, 2007
"I've been in your homes and watched you"... yeah Who's at
fault... thats kinda creepy
A broken system | 1:30 p.m. Nov. 6, 2007
Despite the democratic rhetoric we hear and believe, we have become enslaved. All of us are trapped by a complex web of corporate and governmental behemoths that today controls our airways, educates our children, and manages every facet of our lives.
If a teacher tells his students anything positive about, let's say - socialism, that teacher is going to have to answer to his authorities, even though the U.S. Post Office, Police Department, and the public school system itself is socialistic.
Teacher | 10:37 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
MY MY aren't we almighty and wonderful?.. Our kid is on the honor roll.
Gee! let us praise the kid for cheating...lol! Why not go and turn your bumpy
nose up somewhere else. Private schools are great. A better morale structure as
well.
Anonymous | 2:07 p.m. March 2, 2009
I'm so sick of the whining public school crowd making excuses as to why
they can't measure up. They want to "control" for this
socio-economic "reality", and account for that "racial
factor." The only way they can bring their scores even remotely into
competition is to cheat the stats. The stats. are what they are--Accept them
and deal with them and perhaps we'll see improvements. Until then, SCHOOL
CHOICE! SCHOOL CHOICE! SCHOOL CHOICE!
- Page:
- < Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Davydenko gets 1st big win 11:27 p.m.
- Top 25 roundup: Heels beat Nevada 11:25 p.m.
- NFL roundup: Tomlinson leads Bolts 11:19 p.m.
- Pakistan's pres. told to give up power 11:10 p.m.
- Honduras votes after coup 11:09 p.m.
- 'Saddam Channel' hits Iraq TV 11:09 p.m.
- Rescue is dilemma for father 11:08 p.m.
- World datelines 11:07 p.m.
- NBA roundup: Garnett nearly perfect 11:06 p.m.
- No. 8 West Virginia wins 76 Classic 11:02 p.m.
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
- BYU is champion of the state
- Cougars beat Utes in overtime
- Credit Coug defense for win
- Field goals, penalties doomed Utes
- Cougar defense rose to occasion
- Marriage definitions vary widely
- Banged up Jazz get best of Blazers
- Jones' joy for life remembered
- Fantasy is reality for BYU professor
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
867 - Cougars beat Utes in overtime473
- BYU is champion of the state137
- Thunder rolls by Jazz136
- Max Hall issues apology131
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies117
- Cave to be sealed with body inside116
- Editorial: Poor welcome for Palin113
- Rivalry Week is highly profane90
- Hall's legacy measured today79
I wanted to tell them not to go. I dropped subtle hints. "My money is on...
When I was a kid, I worshipped my grandpa. He was undoubtedly my hero....
Latest comments
Is that BYU gets to call next year without Hall, Pitta, George, Hooks, and a...
ummmm.....relevant?
I think BYU and Utah should take a two-year hiatus from playing each other in...
fantastic story! thanks for the RSL coverage, d-news.
Wait, don't be so hard on the guy. Newsweek is the problem. They lure you in...
USC, CAL or AZ are going to be easy.
Please can we all just get along? Can we take this Thanksgiving holiday and...
Great game! Great playoffs!!! Thanks RSL!
Love my Cougars. Max, you disappointed me on this post-game remark, but...
He was forced to apologize. You knew it was coming as soon as he said it.
Advertisements
Or are the tests the same way the takey driving tests, open book? When you see Utah drivers it is obvious they don't know the rules and the same is with open book tests. You may get answers correct, but you are absolutely clueless what it all means. (Tongue in cheek comment on the open book school tests for the clueless)
I did see that too often; student cram for the tests, but two weeks later they act as if they never heard of any the lessons. They need to learn the material each and every day and is checked with quality assignments that are not just multiple choice but have higher level thinking skills associated with the learning.
I still say teach students according to their learning styles and they will have greater mastery and long term retention.