Reader comments
Utah test scores are startling
135 comments | Read story
Bob G | 5:23 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Don't think demographics has anything to do with this report. It's all
about the quality of education and how badly teachers are stifiled by our
corrupt and fraud ridden education system in Utah. Then others wonder why
parents want to take their children out of the international education system in
Utah and put them in private schools. The Utah legal citizens are being left
behind in education just to encourage the illeal aliens hiding in Utah. Our
schools are day care centers for the illegals and this is having a drastic
affect on children getting educated, I mean the legal american citizens
children. The board of education needs to leave the class rooms alone and let
the teachers do their jobs they have trained and studied for, to teach open and
uncensored classes. Get rid of the computers for students and give them back the
books, it will increase reading levels and understanding of the maths and
sciences. Books don't break down or have power failures like computers do
and the material is always there. Corruption and fraud need to be cleaned up too
and put the money in the class rooms where it belongs.
College prof | 6:01 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
We are seeing the result of the educational establishment's unwillingness
to discard their 19th century education model. Parents need to take charge of
education for their kids and use the school as a resource, instead of turning
the future of their kids over to a teacher that may or may not share their
family's ideals.
Classroom Teacher | 6:26 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Without competition, that is, without Utah schools being forced to improve (and
they won't do it on their own), we will have the same old mediocre test
results as this article indicates. I am a classroom teacher voting for
Referendum 1.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 6:58 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Ummmmm, maybe it's because Utah won't use its huge tax surplus on
schools. I would guess that the other states have smaller class sizes, more
money per student, and higher teacher salaries. Utah's many years of
stubbornness in not giving more money to the schools has brought this on. Invest
in your schools.
Anonymous | 7:07 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Interesting this would come out just before the voucher vote. Regardless vote NO
on vouchers and keep every dollar in the public school systems that are trying
to help everyone. Since the beginning of time people who went to private school
privately paid for it!.
Tim | 7:22 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Sadly, we can't do an apples to apples study because NO STATE IN THE
COUNTRY FUNDS EDUCATION AT OUR LOW LEVEL.
rolandkayser | 7:46 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
We can't compare Utah to states with similar funding. No other state funds
education at a level as low as Utah.
BH | 7:53 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Interesting reading, but the article does not provide enough data to reach any
reasonable conclusions. Was the author intentionally trying to misguide the
reader, of just ignorant of proper interpretation of data? Considering the
timing, just days before Utah votes on vouchers, it makes one suspicious that
the author may have intentionally left out all the facts.
Couldn't help but wonder, with a small group of eight states, if the results were close enough that, statistically speaking, there is no significant difference between several of the states. Or is Utah significantly different than the top three states? No way of knowing from this article.
Couldn't help but wonder, with a small group of eight states, if the results were close enough that, statistically speaking, there is no significant difference between several of the states. Or is Utah significantly different than the top three states? No way of knowing from this article.
Wait a minute... | 8:08 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
"That's a stark contrast to Utah's overall scores, which were overall above national averages and climbing."
Anything Utah does that is above average is a miracle considering we are last in the country in education spending.
We should be comparing that in this equation as well.
When that is taken into consideration my guess will be that we are once again at the top of the pack.
Was this some pro-voucher gov't handout group trying to tout vouchers again?
IF you are comparing apples to apples funding has to be included in the equation.
John | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
But look at our school buildings...Especially the new ones. They are built like
Saddam's palaces. That is where our tax money is going. The upkeep and
utilities must be extraordinary.
Thomas Jefferson | 8:32 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Well, if the anti-voucher crowd 'wins' the vote next week, what will
they have won? The protection of a declining status quo system that offers
nothing, absolutely nothing, by way of improvement. Just give us the money and
please, please be quiet.
Where's the bad news? | 8:51 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Utah students score higher than average on tests. That is good news. We also
have one of the highest graduation rates, as was mentioned in a story earlier
this week. Where's the bad news?
This story seems to be intentionally putting a negative spin on it. No numbers are given, so how much worse are we than the similar states we are talking about. Is it that all states were within 2% of each other and we are just the lowest, or are our test scores 20% lower. Doesn't say so you think the workst. Lame article.
This story seems to be intentionally putting a negative spin on it. No numbers are given, so how much worse are we than the similar states we are talking about. Is it that all states were within 2% of each other and we are just the lowest, or are our test scores 20% lower. Doesn't say so you think the workst. Lame article.
Cody | 8:52 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Thowing more money at public schools will not fix the test scores. There need
to be meaningful eductaion reform.
Dave | 9:00 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Education needs to come from the home first and foremost, but the schools need
to pick up where the parents left off. It would do no good to teach my kids and
then have them go to school only to have the teacher teach them what they
already know. My solution isn't vouchers, but placement testing. These
placement testings will allow 1 or 2 classes to be designed for kids who are
highly educated vs kids who are not.
concerned parent | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
No mention of Investigations/TERC math either. California saw its math scores
drop after adoption of that math program, and saw them rise after getting rid of
it and going back to a more traditional math program.
Monkey Trouble | 9:10 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Utah ranks last.....AMONG FIVE STATES CHOSEN FROM THE TOP.
Okay...
For a moment I actually was going to read the article, but when credibility was thrown out on the first paragraph what was the point.
Okay...
For a moment I actually was going to read the article, but when credibility was thrown out on the first paragraph what was the point.
School Board Member | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
If this doesn't say we need more choice, I don't know what does.
Education of our children needs to step up to the requirements of the 21st
century. The status quo is tired and needs to adapt. Money isn't the
answer, leadership is the answer.
New Utahn | 9:14 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I know when we moved down from Alaska, all 6 of our kids which are still in
public school found Utah schools VERY easy. The grades of all 6 shot up (and
they were all honor roll students to begin with).
At first I thought it was a good thing, but then we realized that our kids spend less than half the time doing homework than they used to. Not only do I worry they are not learning as much here in Utah, but all this new found spare time is a concern. Whereas 90% of their time on a computer, for example, was homework in Alaska, now 60% or better of that computer time is Facebook and other socializing.
I'm sure parents with kids hyper-involved in soccer, dance, music, etc. appreciate the light workload, but frankly, we'd like to feel more assured that our kids were being well educated.
At first I thought it was a good thing, but then we realized that our kids spend less than half the time doing homework than they used to. Not only do I worry they are not learning as much here in Utah, but all this new found spare time is a concern. Whereas 90% of their time on a computer, for example, was homework in Alaska, now 60% or better of that computer time is Facebook and other socializing.
I'm sure parents with kids hyper-involved in soccer, dance, music, etc. appreciate the light workload, but frankly, we'd like to feel more assured that our kids were being well educated.
Thomas Jefferson | 9:19 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Well if the anti-voucher crowd wins the vote next week, what will they have won?
A declining status quo system with no, absolutely no, prospects for
improvement. Just give us the money and please, please be quiet about it.
Every rabid anti-voucher person I have heard from is usually someone who has a
self-interest in the status quo (employed by or family employed by the current
system). A very wise soul said once "self-interest is no principle,
it's just self-interest". Referendum 1 YES, "Let freedom
ring"
Anonymous | 9:21 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
It is the low ability and drive of Unionized teachers that cause the problem
We need Change | 9:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
We need vouchers and we need change in Utah. The establishment and those that
control the flow of our tax money, don't want any change. They want to
hold on to their monopoly power. That's no surprise to me, but what is
surprising is how easily the good people of Utah are persuaded into believing
the phony arguments the anti-voucher crowd is creating. I hope and pray that we
can get out of our current poor situation.
MOM OF SIX | 9:29 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I wish the anti-voucher crowd would wake up and stop making excuses for the bad
test scores. Many of our education problems have nothing to do with money. I
am also getting a little tired of the anti-voucher crowd saying that the
pro-voucher people are a bunch of elitists. I am a mom of 6 who wants to stay
in the public schools.I guess if that makes me an elitist than so be it.
Vouchers will give us the competitive edge we need to make our public schools
better. Vote for vouchers on Nov. 6. Obviously what we are doing isn't
working. Lets try this out.
I'm with you classroom teacher | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Once again, a glowing testimonial of the fine job our public educators are
doing. I keep reading how proud our teachers are of the fact that they are above
average, even though those averages include schools in places like Harlem and
Watts. I'm sorry, but "above average" is not good enough. I
don't accept mediocre performance from my children, and I certainly
don't want it taught to them at school.
When are the teachers going to hold themselves accountable and quit making excuses. In one breath they tell us how wonderful they are doing and there is no reason to change the system. In the next breath they are telling us they are underpaid and how terrible conditions are... and that is why they can't compete nationally. Which is it?
Private school vouchers may not be the ultimate solution, but it is certainly a step in the right direction. Don't throw more money at a problem. It will only make the problem bigger and more bureaucatic. Privatize the education system. Competition always weeds out the poor performers (about 75% of Utah's teachers).
When are the teachers going to hold themselves accountable and quit making excuses. In one breath they tell us how wonderful they are doing and there is no reason to change the system. In the next breath they are telling us they are underpaid and how terrible conditions are... and that is why they can't compete nationally. Which is it?
Private school vouchers may not be the ultimate solution, but it is certainly a step in the right direction. Don't throw more money at a problem. It will only make the problem bigger and more bureaucatic. Privatize the education system. Competition always weeds out the poor performers (about 75% of Utah's teachers).
Booker | 9:39 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
No wonder the legislature fought so hard against No Child Left Behind for face
loss of government subsidy. What will happen to the avverage when in 5 years
the public schools will still be last.
Average? | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Why is it that everyone thinks "above average" is so wonderful? Look
at the people at your place of employment that are average. Is that what you
want for and expect from your children and their futures?
I think George Carlin said it best, "If you want a scary thought, think of how stupid the average American is... and then remember that half of them are even dumber than that."
Our goal should be to be the absolute best, period. No matter how you look at the data. No matter what criteria you include or exclude. The best.
But that takes dedication, effort and work. As long as our educators are good with "better than average", the problem will never improve. Vote for ref.1. It is a step in the right direction.
I think George Carlin said it best, "If you want a scary thought, think of how stupid the average American is... and then remember that half of them are even dumber than that."
Our goal should be to be the absolute best, period. No matter how you look at the data. No matter what criteria you include or exclude. The best.
But that takes dedication, effort and work. As long as our educators are good with "better than average", the problem will never improve. Vote for ref.1. It is a step in the right direction.
JL | 10:03 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Is it possible to measure differences between children whose mothers meet
different work arrangements: out-of-home, in-home, etc. I'm not advocating
one circumstance over another.
Texan | 10:12 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
When we left Utah for Texas my children suffered because they were not ready for
the rigorous demands of the education system here. We held our children back
for a year and it has been the best decision! Others from Utah who have moved
here have basically done the same thing, and Texas would not accept much of the
classes performed in Utah because they were subpar. Those who transferred in
high school have really suffered. Utah's education system is a joke and is
in desperate need of waking up to reality. The graduation rates may be high,
but that value is not an indication of education, it may mean that it is too
easy to graduate there.
Wow, Important People | 10:14 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Thomas Jefferson and a School Board Member are both for creating Educational
Haliburtons.
Hey, let's trow more money at education, but let's earmark it for the ONE thing we KNOW will NOT solve any problems for the schoolchildren.
I love anonymous posters saying they are someone that they are not.
Now we have uncovered that there are real problems in education, let's look for real solutions.
--or--
Let's just give more money back to the rich so they can build higher walls aroung their children.
(If you are poor, just keep wishing that your legislators are looking out for you poor children, and not for the people that donate to them).
Hey, let's trow more money at education, but let's earmark it for the ONE thing we KNOW will NOT solve any problems for the schoolchildren.
I love anonymous posters saying they are someone that they are not.
Now we have uncovered that there are real problems in education, let's look for real solutions.
--or--
Let's just give more money back to the rich so they can build higher walls aroung their children.
(If you are poor, just keep wishing that your legislators are looking out for you poor children, and not for the people that donate to them).
Lyall | 10:21 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Here is why "above the national average" is good news deal
doesn't cut it for me.
In a ranking of industrialized nations the US is second to last (just above Cypress) in terms of education. Our K-12 system is so far behind even Eastern European countries its pathetic, yet our college system is the envy of the world.
One might ask why...easy answer is that we have a robust system driven by competition where colleges are competing for students on multiple levels.
Maybe it's time to give choice the old college try.
In a ranking of industrialized nations the US is second to last (just above Cypress) in terms of education. Our K-12 system is so far behind even Eastern European countries its pathetic, yet our college system is the envy of the world.
One might ask why...easy answer is that we have a robust system driven by competition where colleges are competing for students on multiple levels.
Maybe it's time to give choice the old college try.
God of the Universe | 10:30 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I'm with Thomas Jefferson, Colleg Prof, Classroom Teacher, and School Board
Member in that I also am for parent choice.
Yes on 1.
Yes on 1.
Captain James T. Kirk | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I could never have gained command of the Starship Enterprise without the choice
of private school that will be offered in the future.
Luke Skywalker went to privite school with Yoda. His parents could not have afforded it without Vouchers.
(Anyone else read the paper this week and get the feeling that the Des News staff favors vouchers? I though we paid for news, not editorally chosen stories and blogs).
Luke Skywalker went to privite school with Yoda. His parents could not have afforded it without Vouchers.
(Anyone else read the paper this week and get the feeling that the Des News staff favors vouchers? I though we paid for news, not editorally chosen stories and blogs).
Pro Choice | 10:41 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I have two daughters. I say, give me the $7000 each (or whatever) back a year
to educate them, I'll do it and home, and be done with it all. Don't
ask me to pay for the large families with all of their Trophy Children and tax
breaks. Give them the same choice to do it on their own.
If you want to go choice, let's do it all the way.
If you want to go choice, let's do it all the way.
Teacher | 10:42 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Folks,
Vouchers is just like smearing makeup on a cadaver. The news is in and we are in desperate need of additional money and DEEP reform in public education. Will Utah step up to the plate?
Vouchers is just like smearing makeup on a cadaver. The news is in and we are in desperate need of additional money and DEEP reform in public education. Will Utah step up to the plate?
I knew it | 10:42 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I have the answer its in the Utah DNA. The kids are dumb here because they have
dumb ancestors. I mean they walked 1500 miles or so to the "promised
land" following a modern moses (BY). too bad the mobs in missouri and
illinois didnt wipe those folks out it would have taken some of the dumb out of
the human gene pool.
Im being facetious, of course, but that is kinda the feeling i get when they say it could be to cultural values. If they mean LDS values then the scores should be better there is a positive emphasis placed on education by the LDS church.
Im being facetious, of course, but that is kinda the feeling i get when they say it could be to cultural values. If they mean LDS values then the scores should be better there is a positive emphasis placed on education by the LDS church.
Unaffiliated Observer | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
America has the premier health care system in the world. One of the key factors
in that is the opportunity for doctors to make A LOT of money. Competition is
therefore fierce for openings in medical schools and only the best and brightest
are accepted. Contrast that with public ed. Score 1 for privatization.
On the other hand, America's health care system is too expensive for many of our citizens who could benefit from it. Contrast that with public ed. Score 1 for government schooling.
The best solution is probably somewhere in the middle. We will never get a high percentage of the best and brightest to be teachers unless the compensation warrants it. Not everyone will work hard for ideals alone. The problem I see with the current voucher law is that, as I read the Utah Constitution, NO public money can be given to any school or other entity related to or controlled by a religious organization. I predict that if the voucher law passes, A LOT of money will be spent in the courts on the constitutionality question. That won't benefit parents, teachers, or students.
On the other hand, America's health care system is too expensive for many of our citizens who could benefit from it. Contrast that with public ed. Score 1 for government schooling.
The best solution is probably somewhere in the middle. We will never get a high percentage of the best and brightest to be teachers unless the compensation warrants it. Not everyone will work hard for ideals alone. The problem I see with the current voucher law is that, as I read the Utah Constitution, NO public money can be given to any school or other entity related to or controlled by a religious organization. I predict that if the voucher law passes, A LOT of money will be spent in the courts on the constitutionality question. That won't benefit parents, teachers, or students.
To WoW, Important Person | 10:54 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Wake up and come out of your myopic bubble. Why is it that you equate private
school with "rich" kids? My kids go to private school and I certainly
am not rich. I just chose to do without all the toys (boats, jet skis, cabins,
four wheelers, etc) and invest in my childrens future.
I know people working two and three jobs, driving twenty year old cars and making every possible sacrifice to keep their kids in private school. And do you know who it is that is making the sacrifices? First generation immigrants. Why? Because they understand the value of education. The people here take it for granted.
And guess what, unless you are willing to stand up and demand a change, your kids are going to be losing "their" jobs to those who are willing to make the sacrifice.
Just FYI, I am not an immigrant. I was born and raised in Utah, and am a product of the public school system. I have news for you, it is not what it used to be. It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder because someone else made the sacrifices to be more successful than you.
I know people working two and three jobs, driving twenty year old cars and making every possible sacrifice to keep their kids in private school. And do you know who it is that is making the sacrifices? First generation immigrants. Why? Because they understand the value of education. The people here take it for granted.
And guess what, unless you are willing to stand up and demand a change, your kids are going to be losing "their" jobs to those who are willing to make the sacrifice.
Just FYI, I am not an immigrant. I was born and raised in Utah, and am a product of the public school system. I have news for you, it is not what it used to be. It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder because someone else made the sacrifices to be more successful than you.
UVSC College Professor | 11:13 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
67% of all incoming freshmen at UVSC must take remedial math. Either parents in
Utah don't care, Utah K12 math teachers are substandard or Utah K12 math
curriculum is substandard. Perhaps it is all three.
Compared with the rest of the industrialized world Utah is in the lower 10%. That puts Utah close to some third world countries in math skills.
Unfortunately no one in Utah seems to care but some legislators and a few upset parents. Everyone else is out singing the old "All Is Well In Zion" tune.
Compared with the rest of the industrialized world Utah is in the lower 10%. That puts Utah close to some third world countries in math skills.
Unfortunately no one in Utah seems to care but some legislators and a few upset parents. Everyone else is out singing the old "All Is Well In Zion" tune.
porky | 11:20 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I question if Utah Foundation is as unbiased as they claim to be. Everyone has
an agenda.
Rose | 11:23 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Can you say illegal aliens? This is why our test scores are going down.
Nathan | 11:27 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Now there's a study with an agenda behind it. Why tease out demographics?
Are they implying minorities are less intelligent??? And why
wouldn�t study of demographics look at average family size?
This seems like a convoluted way to put forward the idea that we need to spend more. Hmm. I feel manipulated.
This seems like a convoluted way to put forward the idea that we need to spend more. Hmm. I feel manipulated.
JBean | 11:41 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
To teachers and others complaining about lack of money:
Ask your administrators and State School Board where the 40% increase in budget in just the last 3 years has gone.
Since 2004, the Public Ed budget has gone up by $1 BILLION dollars.
If you are a teacher will low pay and a large class, you should be asking where is that money going if not to you?
Answer: no one really knows. Except for the obvious answers of huge new buildings and fraudulent text book scams.
Vote for vouchers if you want real transparency, merit pay, and smaller classes!
Ask your administrators and State School Board where the 40% increase in budget in just the last 3 years has gone.
Since 2004, the Public Ed budget has gone up by $1 BILLION dollars.
If you are a teacher will low pay and a large class, you should be asking where is that money going if not to you?
Answer: no one really knows. Except for the obvious answers of huge new buildings and fraudulent text book scams.
Vote for vouchers if you want real transparency, merit pay, and smaller classes!
ReadTheVoucherBill | 11:46 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007
It's funny how the UEA and the like are constantly complaining about the
need for more money by stating that Utah ranks last in per pupil spending (which
is true) but never tells you that we rank first in educational spending as a
percentage of personal income. Every single dollar you pay in state income tax
goes to education, approx 95% to public and 5% to higher ed. Because of our
large families and large population of children, we end up paying more than any
other state from our own pocket to fund education.
And now we have an opportunity to have the state fund vouchers from the General Fund (Sales and Use Tax Revenue) not the Uniform School Fund, which in effect increases our funding to education and the unions don't want it. It is all about control of you and your money. There is no conceivable reason that those who want a better education system should vote against Ref. 1. One needs only to read the bill itself to dispel all the half-truths and lies coming from the voucher opponents. I wish I had the room to answer all their distored reasons. Please just read the bill!
And now we have an opportunity to have the state fund vouchers from the General Fund (Sales and Use Tax Revenue) not the Uniform School Fund, which in effect increases our funding to education and the unions don't want it. It is all about control of you and your money. There is no conceivable reason that those who want a better education system should vote against Ref. 1. One needs only to read the bill itself to dispel all the half-truths and lies coming from the voucher opponents. I wish I had the room to answer all their distored reasons. Please just read the bill!
Curtis Blanco | 12:03 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Utah recently got better math standards, and due to legislative involvement will
probably once again be getting even better standards. These will help.
It would also help if in the elementary levels, Utah utilizes teachers who specialize in teaching mathematics. These teachers would would volunteer to teach only math, they would have or agree to get their math certification. Since they teach only math, they would in time get very good at what they do, and they better because their job rating will depend only upon their math teaching success. This would give all Utah elementary students a teacher who is good at teaching math, not just a lucky few. Utah can do better if Utah will adopt smarter ways of dealing with this problem.
It would also help if in the elementary levels, Utah utilizes teachers who specialize in teaching mathematics. These teachers would would volunteer to teach only math, they would have or agree to get their math certification. Since they teach only math, they would in time get very good at what they do, and they better because their job rating will depend only upon their math teaching success. This would give all Utah elementary students a teacher who is good at teaching math, not just a lucky few. Utah can do better if Utah will adopt smarter ways of dealing with this problem.
Ed | 12:16 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Let's talk about education reform then. Here are 2 immediate suggestions:
1) Tighten up attendance policies so that students who do NOT attend are dropped from school until the following quarter. This will call students and parents to greater accountability.
2) Reduce all class sizes to 25 per class, which will call teachers to greater accountability as to student performance. Provide standardized tests at the end of each quarter so that teachers can be "graded" as to a student's performance.
This way schools are no longer turned into babysitting factories (and yes, we are...and I am a school teacher in the public school setting) and everyone is called to accountability. Is anyone opposed to either of these two reform ideas?
1) Tighten up attendance policies so that students who do NOT attend are dropped from school until the following quarter. This will call students and parents to greater accountability.
2) Reduce all class sizes to 25 per class, which will call teachers to greater accountability as to student performance. Provide standardized tests at the end of each quarter so that teachers can be "graded" as to a student's performance.
This way schools are no longer turned into babysitting factories (and yes, we are...and I am a school teacher in the public school setting) and everyone is called to accountability. Is anyone opposed to either of these two reform ideas?
Jerry | 12:17 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Last Friday my boy carved pumkins in math class.
Enough said.
Enough said.
Everyone wants to be rich | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Everyone wants to BE rich, but they HATE those who already are.
A "rich" person gets $500 for their kid and leaves $7000 in the public school, a "poor" person gets $3000 and leaves $4000 to the public school.
Seems to me the "poor" and the "public student" are benefitting more.
I only wish there would've been a voucher bill when a poor kid like me was being bored to death by teachers who had retired on the job.
A "rich" person gets $500 for their kid and leaves $7000 in the public school, a "poor" person gets $3000 and leaves $4000 to the public school.
Seems to me the "poor" and the "public student" are benefitting more.
I only wish there would've been a voucher bill when a poor kid like me was being bored to death by teachers who had retired on the job.
This is really reaching.... | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I look at alot of data, it is part of my job. I have some idea of how to find
relationships amongst disparte pieces of information. I've learned one
thing....unless it is a controlled experiment there is alot of uncertainty in
the relationships that may be found. So they tried to compare "apples to
apples? Is that what was really accomplished here? Each state I've lived
in has vast differences. I haven't found one that is the same as another.
So they tried to rack and stack us against our "peers"? I think this
is reaching too far. Education here is, in my opinion, the best, among the
states I've lived in. But the differences are not large, except in
California, it really had problems. The schools here are not bad, I think we
suffer from an inferiority complex that is not justified.
Steven Jarvis | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
Average?,
We accept being funded 51st in the nation. That is a key factor in why our class sizes are largest in the nation, and that reduces the attention kids get from teachers.
Come visit Utah schools some time. I am sure that whatever state you hail from, you'd be impressed with the quality that goes on.
We accept being funded 51st in the nation. That is a key factor in why our class sizes are largest in the nation, and that reduces the attention kids get from teachers.
Come visit Utah schools some time. I am sure that whatever state you hail from, you'd be impressed with the quality that goes on.
V-"OUCH!"-ER | 12:29 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
I guess it seems that what we are doing isn't working? Let's not try
anything new then, cause things will start working sometime soon if we just keep
doing the same thing but with more money! Yes, let's give more tax money,
and just hope that our leaders can decide where it can be used the best for
school. I don't like to think about trying to get the best for my kids,
it's much more easy to just let the "public" decide!
Karl Marx had it right, let's keep on our path towards his plan.
Karl Marx had it right, let's keep on our path towards his plan.
Fruits of Investigations Math | 12:33 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007
This is yet another example of our poor math standards. Unfortunately our math
standards, even the revised standards are still sub-par. Not only that, we
continue to have districts promoting and using ineffective approaches, like
investigations math, as their primary teaching method to satisfy those
standards. With this teaching method, children are not learning math basics in
elementary school and then struggle throughout Middle School and High School.
Teachers continue to use this method because it is easier to teach and does not
require as much effort. It is a pity the state board chooses to allow this
experiment to occur with children ... it has generational impacts on our
children and society. Don't expect our math scores to get better soon. We
need to clean house and work through massive educational reform before we throw
any more money at education.
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