Deseret News | Reader comments: U. timing on voucher report irks lawmakers

Reader comments
U. timing on voucher report irks lawmakers

Amazed? | 6:39 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Oh, how dare the U provide UNBIASED information! How dare they step on Bramble and Curtis' toes.

I applaud them for their efforts and it was perfect timing. Allow the voters to have information!

If you think for a minute that Bramble and Curtis will not hold a grudge for this........let me tell you...you are sorely mistaken! (especially if the voucher bill is defeated.....which I hope it is)

I hope the next election provides a nice kick in the arse, out the door to Bramble AND Curtis. They are enemies of the people!

gooseagone | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Curtis reportedly told KUTV Ch. 2 that the university would "create hard feelings with certain members of the Legislature" because of the report.

Is this what are legislatures should be saying?

former-elitist | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

"U. timing on voucher report irks lawmakers" noted that House Speaker Curtis told UU's VP for government affairs it created hard feelings with certain legislators.

Agreeing was Sen. Bramble, author of TWIN billion-dollar voucher-math blunders (Paul Rolly, Trib).

With House Education Chair Hughes (whose legislative bio shows no college degree), they're the Axis for voucher promotion, planning a postal-subsidized no-competition weekend mailbox blizzard to save taxpayers' money!

Their pre-Halloween mailbox haunting maturely warned against fearing vouchers: "Run! Hide! Flee! Watch Out For The Big, Scary School Vouchers! Oooooh!"

Now they promote fear: "Ready for your property taxes to double? Referendum 1 = Lower Taxes". They incrediblyly claim "Education taxes would have to TRIPLE" unless vouchers are adopted, while they'll lower taxes using vouchers. Brilliantly math-inept!

The Legislative Fiscal Analyst (official Voter Info Pamphlet) correctly found costs far exceeded voucher savings.

Businesses supporting vouchers are a relative few profiting from inflation, driven sky-high by home costs (thus insurance and property taxes too) by distant home-flippers and by sudden huge new crowds lured here for promised vouchers. Builder Rep. Hughes said (02/17/06 on legislative tape) we can't build public schools, but private schools will be built. Say what? He'll profit.

Comments continue below

Rev. Willis | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

So what did the U report say? How about giving us the real news rather than comments by a few State Legislators? Terrible reporting... No wonder people are ignorant of the issues.

Go Utes | 8:06 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

What a terrible idea! Just imagine -- a public institution providing a public service by providing unbiased information on an important issue so voters can make up their minds on how to cast their ballots?!? And the Republican legislators threatening that they'll remember this come January when the U's budget is considered?!? Here's one appreciative voter who thanks the University for stepping up and issuing this report so people can actually make an informed decision. Remember what Madison said: "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance." Take that GOP leadership!

Well Spoken Jeanetta | 8:20 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Ms. Williams of the NAACP couldn't have said it better. Vouchers would "hasten the abandonment of public schools", leaving the lower income (minorities or not) without any education.

Mexico is the perfect example of a society that educate only those who can afford to pay. If vouchers are passed, that is exactly what will happen here in America, eventually. Mexico is a wonderful country with a beautiful, hard working people who are only lacking because they can't afford schooling. There is no paid public education system there, from what I understand, and far to many go without any formal schooling because of that.

Let's support our public school system by voting against Referendum 1 so people of every income level can continue to have an opportunity to obtain an education. The old saying from the ads for the NCF had it right as well: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste."

Oh the nerve | 8:31 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

of a research university actually doing unbiased research and providing the results to the public. The leader of the Utah House has the unmitigated gall to call the U to chastise them? Maybe the landslide 20 vote win last year gave him a mandate. Hopefully, the fine people of Sandy have had enough and vote him out!

randy | 8:58 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

oh, too bad bramble that someone wanted to say something about the pro-anti/voucher issue that is currently before the utah tax paying registered voters ...
as for the u being so untimely and politically motivated (bramble's words)....
how then bramble do you explain the 'cut and paste' of gov'er huntman's words from a one time appearance made into a commerical acting like the gov'er 'made' the commerical ... that wasnt untimely and politically motivated ??????
it will be a pleasure soon to begin a signatory initiative petition for tax assessment reform/law , totally by-passing ANY input from the capitol hill gang .. this voucher issue was a great warm-up for utah voters to get the experience of how their signature can create and change law ... since capitol hill has refused to curb the out-of-control fair market value assessments on our property's 'we the people' will do it for them by creating this petition that will return our property taxes back to say 1% of the original purchase of that property
so mr bramble .. too bad somebody 'played' by the same 'rules' as your side and gave utah voters another way to look at the voucher issue

Freedom of information | 9:01 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

To read a copy of the research, go to the UofU website and search for "Voucher the basics".

The punitive, selfish, arrogant, nasty, biggoted, attitudes of Utah legislators galls me! The university's Center for Public Policy and Administration has a well known and extensive track record for producing carefully documented, impartial, well-written research.

If legislators were seekers of truth, they would embrace the imformation in such a document. The fact is, the Republican dominated Utah Legilsature is so wrapped up in getting its way, that it can't tolerate any thought or information that is contrary to their objectives.

Hurrah for the U!

swrl | 9:43 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. It's okay to plaster pro Huntsman's endorcement but our power hungry legislators are insulted by an intellectional critic. The reaction might have been better recieved if it were BYU reporting.

Slacker 7 | 9:50 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

I agree with Rev. Willis - What did the U report say? I don't recall seeing anything in this publication about the report when it was released 10 days ago. This story infers that the U report was anti voucher, which flies in the face of this publication's main audience. Typical DesNews reporting, high school journalists would do better.

kv2 | 9:51 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

I've been in Utah now for 10 years. I've lived a lot of places in my life - grew up in Kansas - conservative, spent my time in the military in South Carolina - very conservative, and even spent a little time in Texas. I've never seen a State Legislature work like the one in Utah does. The idea that these people would make veiled threats is amazing to me. Legislating through intimidation, retribution and revenge is not what the people of Utah deserve. Where is the voice of moderation within the state Republican party? How much longer will the people of Utah continue to elect such extremists? I heard Cutis on TV the other day state that the legislature would abide by the will of the people if they rejected vouchers - well imagine that! What other recourse does Curtis think he has? I have one question for the people of Utah: Have you had enough yet? Vote 'em out!

Gepetto 1 | 10:27 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Bramble, Curtis and Hughes ought to start thinking about cutting the strings to their wealthy puppeteers. After Utah's voters fix this mess, they're likely to look for the self-serving gang that cooked it up. The smell of what these guys have done should last well into next year.

Dayo | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

That's just like some members of our Utah legislature to be offended at the TIMING of a report!! Excuse me, but what better time to release an unbiased report than BEFORE an election? The legislature is supposed to be there for us, their constituents. I learned this in 5th grade--in PUBLIC school!! We are not here to vote how the legislature wants us to vote!! The Utah legislature would do well to re-educate themselves on how goverment is supposed to work.
Utah voters are finally starting to vote against the Repubublican machine, and I and most people I know are voting against Referendum 1.

You're Right kv2 | 10:50 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

I agree completely. Let's vote them out. I say Huntsman should go as well since he seems to be a part of them. As a former Republican, I say it's time to elect representatives that actually represent the concerns and needs of the people. It's time for a change in Utah politics.

randy | 11:01 a.m. Nov. 2, 2007

just came to me ....what happens to private school johnny or suzie when they want to be on the public school band or team sport ??
does private school johnny and suzie have to pay actual costs back to the public school to be affilated and play ?? (uniforms, bus transportation, adult/teacher leadership, etc)
havent heard much discussion about that kind of issue ... probably a mute point ... with the number of utah registered voters that signed the petition to stop this foolish thing .. but hey ... last minute and very unpolitical i am sure ...

Former elitist | 12:18 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007

"They tax us without having legal representation" (Samuel Adams). All of us who oppose vouchers are denied representation. Cost-saving bills (my fav's) written or co-sponsored by my Rep. will once again be buried, as will bills of firms that didn't cave to threats that bills they needed would die if they didn't "contribute" (Spanish slang for "tax") for voucher ads (bribes).

In 2006 also, 8 GOP Rep.'s, and their bills, were mostly blackballed and attempts were made to have them defeated, because they opposed vouchers. All 8 supported every GOP plank, including parental choice expansions in menus of choice in public schools, and in RTL (where a key voucher supporter
killed a key bill). I verified that for all eight, bill by bill. But voucher supporters too often coasted on "I'm for vouchers". That denied
many of us our representation. That's tyranny.

Dump HB-148's black-hole T-tax into any harbor, and help restore Constitutional representation for us.

Utah's Constitution, Article 6.27 says "The Legislature shall not authorize any game of chance, lottery or gift enterprise under any pretense or for any purpose". HB-148's lottery gifts (called scholarships yet with no scholastics) is a scofflaw mockery of Article 6.27.

Dale | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Really... is anyone surprised by Curtis' and Bramble's reaction? Keep it up! Maybe they'll take their toys and go home!

Lee Ann Honeycutt | 2:45 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Where is the U's voucher report? Please tell us where we can read it. Also where is the voucher information pamphlet. Rather than tell us what people are saying about these reports, give us the information and let us make our own decisions

Anonymous | 4:55 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Lee Ann, the report is on teh front page of the Center for Public Policy and Administration. Very easy to find, the DNews doesn't allow urls in the comment section.

Anonymous | 10:43 p.m. Nov. 2, 2007

Bramble and Curtis must go. It's our fault for leaving them in office; let's remember their antics when they're up for re-election. They're an embarrassment to the Republican Party.

val | 1:26 p.m. Nov. 3, 2007

The veiled threats made by these power-hungry boughtandpaidfor legislators is so real to educators...we see this every year...despite the polls extolling funding for public education we see these efforts at privatization come up every year...They went after the USOE last year and vow again to make it a political appointment so they can have a public education puppet running the show....watch for another shot this year,especially when USOE would not put vouchers in effect this year while it was in the courts....we can call the next session "Retribution 2008...don't make those gods at the top angry.........Go Team!

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