Reader comments
The voucher vote: Taking a closer look at both sides of this controversial education issue

The main thing that draws me to vote yes for Referendum 1 is that it offers parents a choice. My oldest daughter is very intelligent but has some special needs. She�s struggled since she started Jr. High school. I�m very frustrated with public school. I�ve seriously considered home schooling but, no matter what I do, I�ll still pay education taxes. Why can�t I choose the methods used to educate my daughter without paying for it twice?

I�ve read the Referendum (on Utah�s legislative website) and it�s NOT true to say that it requires no accreditation. It absolutely does. It also won�t touch the current education funds � it pulls from a separate fund. That means MORE money going toward education in Utah, not less. What better way to use Utah�s tax surplus? Taxes won�t go up. Utah�s doing pretty well financially right now. Read it � 2007 House Bill 148 � and decide for your family.

Sadly, none of my four daughters will even qualify for vouchers. I�ll still vote for it so that other parents have the choice and, if it passes, maybe it will open the door for choices that fit my family�s situation in the future.

There are several flaws with HB 148:

*Student choice already exists. Charter schools exist all over the state. Open enrollment exists in all schools in Utah (except where a district has closed a school due to high enrollment).

*According to HB 148, if a student leaves a district to attend a selected private school, neither district will receive any monies. For example, if a Granite district student selects a private school in Jordan district, neither Jordan nor Granite receive any monies.

*If a student tries the private school but later decides to return to the public school after Oct. 1, there is no correction on monies sent to the private school or public school.

IT IS NOT A SCHOLARSHIP! It's a subsidy, mostly to wealthy people. But that's just more of the deceit behind those pushing vouchers.

Whats the flaw with parents having a choice on where the money goes to educate their child? Of course I'm not LDS, nor do I care who is. Seems to me there is no seperation of Church and State in Utah, since the schools have to be in close proximity of the churches. Thus, most "Utah Families" fear that the current "public" schools would loose revenue. Utah Schools have the worst per student spending because of the LDS values of large families.

Is there such a thing as a private LDS school? I've seen numerous other denominations.

If we really want to give a scholarship (or choice) to someone who has special needs and not the means to pay for it then by all means lets do it. But lets be honest about it. This plan seems to disguise something that will actually help more upper income people than the poor or low income people who really need more help.

LOW INCOME?
There is nothing in HB148 that limits vouchers to low income. All eligibility requirements are listed in lines 86-102 of HB148. Income eligibility is 100% or less of the guideline (lines 98-100). However, if you look at the guideline on line 266 of the bill, there is no income upper limit. Loophole?

ENROLLED?
Requirements state the student was enrolled in a Utah public school on 1/1/07. Taken literally, that excludes children who hadn't yet started school on that date. Also, it doesn't mention they're enrolled for the school year, just on New Year's Day. Loophole?

RESIDENT?
Line 97 states they are not a Utah resident. This is clearly a typo as the "or" should preceed the line (see entire text).

BEFORE OR AFTER?
Age requirements state the student was born after 9/1/01. Didn't they mean BEFORE (aka prior to)? Students born after 9/1/01 would be 7 years of age or younger for the 08-09 school year. Typo?

Thus, the only voucher eligible students for the 08-09 school year would be 7 year old non-residents who were in public school on New Year's 2007.

Did Huntsman even read HB148 before he signed it? Did the politicians?

Bills outline a program, policy wonks then write the regulations. However it seemed to me that it excludes children already in the private schools. I am voting for the Referendum, my children are grown but I would like to see other parents being helped to get their children out of the public school system. Even with the referendum it will require dedication on the parents part. My children went to Catholic School, they went on to higher education and successful lives, their cousins and other children in the neighborhood with basically the same background and similar genes went on to drugs (in some cases) and lower paying jobs.
They seem particularly uneducated regarding world affairs and politics and do not engage in volunteer work as my children do. In fact I doubt any of them vote. Public school is a joke and the only teachers I knew personally in the neighborhood smoked pot.

It is worth noting that choices have always been available in education and the taxes we pay are for the benefit of living in an educated society, not registration fees for our own children-- thus the requirement for everyone to pay these taxes.

If public school teachers understood economics, they would all vote for Referendum 1.

In a free market, shortages produce an increase in prices. Why are starting salaries for Pharmacists over $100,000 a year? Because of a pharmacist shortage. Why aren�t teachers salaries increasing? Because teachers don�t work in a free market environment, they work in a monopolistic environment.

The best way for public school teachers to increase their salaries is to create a free market for their services. If more children go to private schools, private schools need to hire more teachers causing teacher salaries to rise. Referendum 1 provides additional money for public schools to compete with private schools. It has the potential to solve all of the challenges facing education in Utah without raising taxes or hurting anyone � except the UEA and NEA. The UEA and NEA get money by convincing teachers that the best way to increase their salaries is for the UEA to lobby the legislature to increase taxes and funding. Has this approach ever worked? Have public school teachers ever been paid what they are worth under this approach? Do you really think this will ever work in Utah? Wake up!

JB-Syracuse:

You'd better re-read HB148. There is no requirement for private schools to be accredited.

Complete requirements for voucher schools are listed in lines 132-198 of HB148.

Beginning on line 159, it reads: (voucher schools are required to) "provide, upon request to any person, a statement indicating which, IF ANY, organizations have accredited the private school," (emphasis added). This clearly indicates that voucher schools are not required to be accredited.

Pro Voucher stuff has been proposed many many times before.
It's like pro choice wording about abortion....It speaks to someone's ideas about freedom..."Why sure I'm for freedom".
But ask yourself who really benefits from this bill? The poor get no actual benefit from a voucher...It's really not enough money for the poor to send their child to a privateschool w/o incredible sacrifice! They might try it...But they won't be able to sustain the extra money out of their budgets(Do you eat or send your child to PubSch.)
It's socialism...Why are people that vote against the great society type welfare programs...For subsidizing private schools?
It does take money out of public schools - Schools are given $$$$ for every child that attends. If a child attends PrivateSchool that $$$$ does NOT(Stay at!) go to the publicschools.
Why can the legislature find several hundred million dollars for vouchers but they can't find it for publicschools?
Someone posted Utah Publicschools have the lowest per pupil funding in the nation! How can you justify this kind of money going to a Vprogram and can't find that money for Publicschools?
Are there ulterior motives for this program?
I believe there is!

Actually, not only will vouchers take away from education, but will also erode funding from roads, justice system, and other programs. To say funding for educatioin will not be effected is a joke.

The money given to public school for each child attending private school lasts for up to 5 years and decreases each year. What then? Less money for public school once again.
This bill does not help anyone. It's too little for the poor and rich alike. If you're making $100K, $500 is not going to make the difference in getting your kid into private school. Why bother?
The money is better spent improving public school than bringing the goal closer, but keeping it still out of reach.

National voucher/tax credit history is even more interesting. Reagan proposed them in 1983 and the ACLU and their liberal allies have been fighting them ever since, in every state.

Wake up, folks. This is an ideological battle, not a local one.

C'mon Father of 2, do the math. If the public schools do the job for $7500 and the private schools do it for under $5000 (most of them), why are you asking for more money for public schools? Pass the vouchers and you'll have the best of both. More money/pupil in public schools, smaller class sizes, and happy parents.

I know some people that will be voting no on this issue just because their kids are already in private school and will not be eligible and dont want to give the government any chance of getting involved in private schools. If this passes eventually the private schools will be ran just like the public schools.

It's worth noting that the point of "public education" is education. Why does "publicly-funded education" have to be equivalent to "government-distributed education" or "public school system bureaucracy"? Why can't education just be "publicly funded"?

Just wondering.

To "see how it's packaged" - the education system you have now is socialism, friend, because it is government-run. When a commodity is allowed to function in an actual marketplace, that ain't socialism.

Reading the above seems non-personal. I am voting for it because I have had to fight the school system at EVERY point in the education of my Special needs child. One size does not fit all, but Jorden school district tries to do so. IEPs - just words on paper, doesnt mean anything to teachers. I put a second mortgage on my home to pay for 18 months of private schooling for my child, and it helped beyond belief. How come private schools can teach, but public schools just fight at every point?
I am not rich, even the minium 500 dollars would help. I am sure not getting my moneys worth out of Jorden schools.
THanks for letting me vent.

How can you not be FOR choice? Apparantly the left wing is only for choice when it comes to abortion. I should be able to choose what school my child goes to. That competition alone will make all the schools better over time.
Most the pros and cons on here are all about funding and money per student and blah, blah, blah..... When will they learn class size and money spent does not equal better education. Most of Europe and Asia have been showing us that for decades. Look at Japan and their class sizes.
What we need is to get all the diversity junk and sex ed junk out of schools and teach kids a real education: math, science, history, reading, writing, etc...

Choice in Education is a good thing. Period! Some people say "What about our Public Schools?" I say, "what about our children's education?" Vouchers allow the small percentage of students who feel that public schools aren't right for them to go somewhere else as they choose, and be able to afford it. But the bottom line, is that it is still going to "Education." That is the goal here, isn't it. We hold education as a public value, but that doesn't mean that they must receive an education at a public school, just a good school. And don't believe the stupidity of an argument that says these private schools won't employ good teachers. The market system will take care of that through competition. Parents will not put their children in a bad school, well, they won't if they have the "choice" to go somewhere else. Choice is good for parents and good for students. If this doesn't pass next week, it will surely resurface again in the future. Parents will demand choice!! Bramble and Urquhart have it right!