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John Florez: To compete in world, U.S. must reform education

Thank you, John Florez. We are getting passed by, and my husband (a retired software engineering professor) and I worry that the U.S. will become a "third world" nation if we don't somehow inspire our children to take tough classes at the university level--to major in engineering and math and the sciences in at least the same numbers as our university's foreign students are doing. For years his graduate classes have had far more Chinese, Indian and Korean students in them than Americans. We are in trouble.

Why we need vouchers! We need a systemic change, not just tweaking, and vouchers will change the system, by empowering every family. Right now, only the rich have choices. Let's give every parent their god-given right to be able to choose their child's education. We all benefit, which is why we pay taxes for it, but there is no reason to have only government-run schools. UT has the largest gov.-run school monopoly of any state. Why are we entrusting our child's education to the government?

You mean teaching children to make pots and jewelry, pies, and how to bowl doesn,t prepare them for life?

Typical nonesense from John Florez. I agree with his generalities; who wouldn't? We all know we need to reform and improve out educational system. But he doesn't say how. He leaves enough out there for the voucher folks to believe he wants vouchers but doesn't commit to it. He says enough that the anti-voucher folks can agree with, but he doesn't commit that way either.

Come on, John! Take a stand. Where are you? Seems like you don't want to take a stand. Not to worry, you won't lose any political office. Are you worried about your educational consulting contracts? Where are you?

One of the handicaps America suffers in debating education seriously is our ideal of equality (which serves us so well in other contexts).

We blame the public education system for decreasing academic performance, and some of the blame is justified. However, changes in the "raw material" the public schools have to work with can't be ignored.

What I will say may sound offensive, but it is absolutely, measurably, uncontroversially true: Increasing the percentage of the public-school student population with origins in a nation with a significantly lower IQ than the native-born American population will tend to decrease academic performance. Limited language skills magnify the problem.

The reaction of many public schools to this factor has made the matter worse: When a school's socioeconomic composition shifts and causes a decrease and performance, too often, the response is to lower standards. This misguided effort to preserve the illusion that all students are largely equal in academic potential cheats those students who truly are capable of excellence. America's treatment of intellectually gifted students -- a neglect influenced by a sense that it is somehow inegalitarian or elitist to recognize talent -- is absolutely shameful.

We are educating to the lowest common denominator and dumbing down standards so we don't injure self esteem. Those nations who have overtaken us, and those who are working hard to do so, don't care about the self esteem of our students. They care about beating us - and they will without some basic changes in our systems. I don't believe those changes will come from the people in charge of maintaining what we have now.

TRK -- Hear, hear.

Another point is that American culture has come to look down its nose on hard-science experts. Engineering is considered kind of pocket-protector uncool.

The problem has been that for the last two decades or so, there has been an extraordinary credit boom (or bubble). The returns to financial activities have spectacularly outpaced the return on mere production or R&D. So a lot of the mathematical talent has been drawn to the financial sector. And the second-tier talent has gone into real estate and mortgage brokering.

Well, the credit boom may be on its last legs, with the result that it may actually become economical for America to focus on activities that actually create something again. Here's hoping we haven't permanently damaged the educational infrastructure we'll need to staff the emerging jobs.

Start teaching teachers how to teach based on a child's learning styles. It works.

Germany and Japan teach science from 1st grade on and break the concepts down so that each year a child masters certain concepts, building each year on the previous until they have mastered science. The US does not do this.

Parents, kids get out of schools what they invest. I saw far too many kids who had excellent teachers, but were more interested in doing other things and were not prepared to learn. When I talked with the parents of these kids they were cluelss as to what was going on and seldom responded to a notice or call from their teacher. This investment pays off, whether the kid was in special education, mainstreamed, ESL or gifted. We had gifted who failed, because it was too hard. They didn't want to work.

Why should they work when they see Dad come home from work, sit down and watch TV all evening. The message is after your work (school) you sit back and watch TV. KIds spend more time watching TV than they spend in school. Stupid is as stupid does. Parents study each night yourself.

Everyone who wants to truly understand the problem needs to read "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. He shows you the true difference between American education vs. elsewhere.

And what is the difference? American kids have a SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT. They think they can slack off in school, take it half-seriously, and they'll still end up making $59k a year because that's what their parents did.

Friedman mentions attending a math class for 14-year-olds in India. It was optional and started at midnight, yet there were over 50 kids there, some standing in the back, furiously taking notes. Every time the teacher asked a question, every hand went up. That's what's scary for American kids - kids in places like India will do ANYTHING to make it in this world.

Parents, you need to get your kids to understand this. They are getting badly outdone by kids on the other side of the world because those kids WANT IT MORE. The current generation of "do as little as I have to's" is going to wish they'd worked harder in school. They're going to get out of school and compete against Indian and Chinese kids who are smarter, better educated, harder working, and willing to do it for less money.

Education is about DESIRE. It's not about vouchers, money, class sizes, new schools, new books, or teacher pay. The kids who WANT to learn will learn. The kids who SACRIFICE will learn. And they will succeed.

Thanks to the digital age, you are no longer guaranteed a high-paying job just because you live in the USA, at least not in the engineering field. We are truly approaching a Darwinian "survival of the fittest" time when it comes to high-tech jobs. Our kids are not the fittest.......and it's THEIR OWN FAULT!

Parents, talk to your kids about the need to excel, not just slide by. Their futures literally depend on it!

Couple of points I agree with.
First, after the war the greatest generation came home and put in place things like the GI Bill and other social programs that created a middle class that carried us for over 50 years. Today, I fear such ideas and institutions are shouted down as heretic.
In addition, as mentioned in a couple of letters, we've really dumbed it down. Education, especially in sciences, is held literally in contempt in this country; we'd rather be sports stars or gangsters. Right from the top down science is ignored or ridiculed. There aren't as many Chinese engineering students anymore; they're studying in greater numbers at home.
We're in trouble.

As parents of three gifted children and one profoundly gifted child we have nothing but frustration from the school system. We struggle to keep our children engaged and interested in school. They rarely have homework and nearly always come home with A�s. We constantly worry about their academic work ethic. We continue to supplement the children even though it exasperates the problem by putting them even farther ahead of their peers. In their early education years we tried to work with the teachers but were told several times that that our children were just early learners and their peers would eventual catch up We have had three teachers in their collective 31 years of schooling who have recognized their unique ability and have carved out personal time to challenge them. Sadly, many teachers, however, just saw that they would easily meet �yearly adequate progress� and spent more time with those who would not. Gifted children are shortchanged by the current system. We need to embrace the fact that not all students are blessed with the same intellectual abilities. We are losing the brilliant scientist, engineers, mathematicians that will make this county competitive in future!

Geez, Florez. Don't you ever have anything original to say? Same drum, same beat, no proof.

The papers are both reporting that Utah is the only state with no high schools that are "drop out factories." They also reported that Utah has the best female high school graduation rate in the nation.

All that, at the lowest funding per student in the nation. Why would we not want to invest more into such a system for the sake of the children?

John, you ought to join the majority of Utahns who are crying for the legislature to bring the state back to the national ranking of funding that it enjoyed in the early 90s -- before the constitution was changed to allow the legislators to rob public education of its funds to feed the Republican agenda.

If we don't change our direction, we'll arrive where we're headed.