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Tough migrant measure on track
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Bob G | 5:14 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
The Oklahoma laws does not interfer with anyones rights that are legally in the
US and it does not interfer with the federal laws of immigration. The illegals
have not gone through any immigration process so they do not meet the standards
of an immigrant. They are illegal aliens and illegal foreign nationals with no
rights, liberties, or freedoms under the constitution of the United States. All
illegals are subject to deportation with no legal status what so ever. The State
laws only reinforces the existing federal laws that state it is illegal to
employ illegal aliens that are in the country illegally. The state law does not
impose any conflicts the federal deporting of illegal aliens, it only makes the
businesses obey the laws that do exist and penalizes those that fail to obey it.
In effect this law makes it unpleasent for the illegals to illegally cross our
borders and they can't be employed or hired using illegal documents and
stolen identities. If the truth were known the corporate businesses have hired
these lawyers to keep their illegal workforce. Illegals, the plague on America,
has to be injected with an antiillegal drug (law) to save it's people.
Tim | 5:48 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
It's the "harbor or transport them" part that has me
worried...
I'm sure it's meant to hurt legal immigrants who are helping out their illegal friends/family, but...
Who else harbors illegal immigrants? Any apartment owner, anyone who rents houses out. Would schools be included here? Preschools? Churches?
And who transports them? Taxi drivers? Bus drivers? TRAX? People who pick up hitchhikers?
So to avoided getting busted, do we now have to ask everyone we come in contact with, anyone we help in any manner, "can I see your papers?"
I'm sure it's meant to hurt legal immigrants who are helping out their illegal friends/family, but...
Who else harbors illegal immigrants? Any apartment owner, anyone who rents houses out. Would schools be included here? Preschools? Churches?
And who transports them? Taxi drivers? Bus drivers? TRAX? People who pick up hitchhikers?
So to avoided getting busted, do we now have to ask everyone we come in contact with, anyone we help in any manner, "can I see your papers?"
Comments continue below
Larry S. | 5:49 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Let's hear it for Oklahoma! Now, Utah needs to follow the excellent
example set by our fellow U.S. citizens in Oklahoma and pass an even tougher
state law to force illegal aliens (and all other lawbreakers ) out of the state.
Dave | 7:42 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
All the talk about the "law" and constutution is a waste of time. It
all comes down to whatever some judge feels like at the time.
OneVote | 7:47 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
According to Michael Chertoff, Director of Homeland Security, whenever we try to
enforce immigration law, three groups try to block the efforts - Labor,
business, and advocacy groups. Predictably, they are at it again.
Yes, we might get sued, but someday the tide will turn and the politicians will buckle under. The alternative is to give the country away to third world illegal aliens. Take your pick.
Yes, we might get sued, but someday the tide will turn and the politicians will buckle under. The alternative is to give the country away to third world illegal aliens. Take your pick.
Don't be silly. | 7:52 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Harboring and transporting illegals is not talking about churches and taxi
drivers. It is talking about people who knowingly try to get them here illegally
and them protect them from being detected by the law. That is like saying the
tax laws will allow the IRS to come after you if you don't pay taxes to the
kid selling lemonade on the street corner for 10 cents. It's not going to
happen.
William | 7:54 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
What is it you don't like about immigrant workers? Is it their skin color,
the fact that they are predominantly Catholic, or what? I sincerely cannot
imagine this level of hatred being directed at people who speed on the
freeway(who occasionally kill people after all) or people who cheat on their
taxes(who end up bringing up everyone else's rates). There are lots of
lawbreaking villains running around so be fair and hate them all equally-- or be
a Christian and love them all equally. If you can't do either of those
things at least be a pragmatist and admit that deporting 5-10% of the workforce
would kill our economy. When did "conservatives" start hating the
free market?
-K | 8:02 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Unfortunately, he probably wrecked a lot of chances by saying undocumented
workers "don't have constitutional rights." What is actually the
case -and maybe this is what he means - is, by being undocumented workers, they
have broken the law. Period. And there's no protection in the
Constitution that says people can't be punished for breaking the law.
Paul | 8:59 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
I am amazed at the hate toward undocumented workers. Between Sean Hannity, and
Laura Ingram and Michael Savage, they are obsessed with hatred for illegals. I
hope are great state can stop listening to all the talk show boys whom control
the republican party and start woking on giving undocumented people a way to
redeem themselves. Remember, many are married to us citizens, many have
children that are U.S. citizens. What kind of country are we if we are willing
to break up hundred of thousands of lives and deport 12 million people. I say
get rid of the illegal criminals, deport the rightwing talk show hosts and give
the undocumented people a chance. I would hate to see Utah's economy after
100,000 poeple get deported. Republicans! you will hand over the election to
the democrats on a silver plate over immigration! The more you hate! The more
you will give up the votes as well as my vote. 70% of the american people do
not want deportation, they want the boarders closed, the bad guys deported and
will be fine with the illigals staying and work toward a path to citizenship.
Jason | 9:04 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
It is unfortunate that William does not care about laws that protect this great
country of ours. Most people in that state (according to as recent KSL report)
want immigration enforced. By the way, tax rate hikes are not effected by
people cheating on their taxes.
AC | 9:20 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Immigration is a very complicated problem with many different twists and turns.
You haven't studied the whole problem and how we will all be effected by
making such harsh laws. It will effect our whole country and more ways than you
can even imagine. People need to open their eyes and realize that there is no
way easy way to solve the immigration problem. Laws like this one are going to
cause major problems for all of us. If you think there is a way to become legal
now, you are wrong. The only way for a Mexican to become legal is to apply
through a spouse or a family member. To apply through a family member can take
15 to 20 years of waiting. It is even complicated to apply through a spouse and
very expensive. If there was a legal way for Mexicans to become legal, many of
them would do it. Most of these people just want to have a chance at a better
life. They work hard and are more motivated than we are. Be careful of what
you ask for, you just might get it.
OklahomaReader | 10:02 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
I wish to comment on the "why" Paul is looking for. We are tired of
being taken advantage of. The law IS the law. Illegal IS illegal. Yes, business
is disrupted a little in Oklahoma at the moment. Some construction in town is
off schedule because some "workers" had to leave. They will likely go
to Utah or some other state. The workforce will adjust and we will get back on
track, being a better (fiscally) and more secure state for it. Kudos to our
leaders in Oklahoma. At least we're DOING something about it. Washington
seems to have it's hands tied, for whatever reason. I recently read the
constitution and they are bound by the constitution to secure our borders.
Let's get with it.
something's gotta be done | 10:32 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
How about employers having another choice besides keeping a problematic worker
or firing everyone...don't hire undocumented workers!!
And I get soooo tired of the rationale that we need to keep these workers because the economy will buckle under the deportation of these workers. How about those on welfare or unemployment taking these jobs?!?
Most of the undocumented workers where I live get paid under the table and send the bulk of their money back to Mexico...so not only are they taxing the system, but they're not paying taxes and they aren't helping the local economy by spending their money here.
William...for me it has nothing to do with the color of their skin or their religious beliefs...it has to do with following the law.
AC..."Most of these people just want to have a chance at a better life." Well, so do I, but I'm not going about it by breaking laws.
And I get soooo tired of the rationale that we need to keep these workers because the economy will buckle under the deportation of these workers. How about those on welfare or unemployment taking these jobs?!?
Most of the undocumented workers where I live get paid under the table and send the bulk of their money back to Mexico...so not only are they taxing the system, but they're not paying taxes and they aren't helping the local economy by spending their money here.
William...for me it has nothing to do with the color of their skin or their religious beliefs...it has to do with following the law.
AC..."Most of these people just want to have a chance at a better life." Well, so do I, but I'm not going about it by breaking laws.
To the critics of the laws | 10:37 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
It isn't a matter of hating "undocumented workers" which is a
sugar coated way of saying illegal immigrants. We have to protect our borders. I
promise the situation isn't as grave as you make it sound. Our economy
would be just fine without millions of illegals. If we want hard workers there
are millions of people in Africa that dream of coming here. If we need someone
to do the jobs illegals are doing, I have personally met hundreds of Africans
that would do anything to live here. The law is the law. We cannot continue to
ignore them. If you don't like it try to change the law. But as it is there
is nothing wrong with deporting a criminal. Because frankly they are all
criminals. Just coming into the country but not the legal way is illegal.
Criminals don't have rights. Once you break the law you forfit a lot of
rights.
EMH | 11:07 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
It is about time. Since the Federal Government won't due the job they are
suppose to, the States need to step up and do it for them. I am all for this
bill.
Bubba | 11:29 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Paul, illegal = criminal. If immigrants are here legally, they stay here. If
they are illegal, they get deported. Want to be compassionate - help immegrants
use the legal way to be in our country. My ancestors used the legal way, why
should those from non-european countries think they can sneak in a deserve
special treatment?
Jake P | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
I am grateful for the immigrants, legal and illegal, who have come and will
continue to come to my country. I welcome the world and hope you find America to
be the wonderful place my grandparents found when they immigrated illegally from
Europe. Immigration is not the problem. Racism is the problem. If these people
were from Canada, no one would care. Get off your high horse and give an
immigrant a hug and invite them over for dinner. You may discover they are just
like you.
And for all of you people who say it is about the law, give me a break. You didn't drink before coming of age? You never speed? You have never cheated on your taxes? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
And for all of you people who say it is about the law, give me a break. You didn't drink before coming of age? You never speed? You have never cheated on your taxes? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
Anonymous | 11:59 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007
I don't see any logic in arguing for or against this sponsored by the
esteemed representative from Washington County. The law says undocumented
workers are in this country illegally. The law could also be ammended However,
there are those who would argue that this would be considered amnesty and they
are categorically opposed to it. Senator Hatch says he is opposed to it.What is
unfortunate is that "protecting our borders" has been turned into a
rallying cry for those who hate foreigners regardless of migratory status. There
is no proof that either, Canadians or Hispanics have ever done anything to
endanger our borders. All they've done is to cross our borders seeking a
better life for themselves without being a threat to the US. The people who
started the ball rolling and attacked the US were legally admitted aliens. Shall
we then close our borders to everyone? Many children of illegal aliens have
served honorably in the armed forces of the US? I am including in this count,
Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans who at the time when they were asked to
serve were not legally US citizens but had to earn that right of citizenship by
serving with honor.
JR | 12:50 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
How does it becomes "hatred" because we ask the illegals return to
their homes and go through the proper channels. I am a legal immigrant and I
had to go through the process, one of which was being fingerprinted, proving I
could readl, write speak Englis also they checked my background to make sure I
wasn't a criminal. There are reason for the lawful processes in place.
Allow people to sneak in, steal identities etc isn't the way. We all
break minor laws but this is not minor and they are the new "slave" of
America - give them legal status and then see if the employer can get away with
slave wages and cheating the government on the taxes etc. Legal is legal for
all not a few select based on race
Eli | 1:30 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
As the wife of one legal immigrant and the best friend of another, I know how
difficult it can be to do things the lawful way. It is not easy but simply
choosing to come here illegally should not be allowed. This is without regard
to race, creed, color, religion, sex, etc. Wrong is wrong. Change the laws if
you do not like it. If you are here illegally, go back to where you came from
and come here legally. If it is too difficult or too long a wait to do that,
change YOUR country's laws. This may seem impractical and outrageous but
it is not less so than expecting we all adapt to illegal immigrants and provide
them every necessity because they cannot provide for themselves because they
chose this instead of legal immigration. We need to tend to citizens who are
without medical care, impoverished/homeless children, quality education,etc. I
am also tired of hearing illegal immigrants brag about filing taxes so it
appears they comply with the law and declaring that they pay taxes in their
country of origin for a full refund. Enough. I welcome legal immigration with
an open heart. I oppose all illegal immigration.
Jan | 1:46 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
If Oklahoma wants to cut back on cost maybe we could cut back on the welfare
checks given out to those who have decided that having more children is easier
than working. We give free medical to over half the state and these people
refuse to work! We also give OLAP to students and I know of several that will
not get a full time job when it comes avaliable because they will have to start
paying back. But yet we want to send home the workers that actually get up
everyday and go to work. Sounds like maybe we need to figure where we are really
spending our money. I do get mad having to pay for my family and everyone
else's too but I think if we are going to cut our work force we need to
make all the welfare people fill the jobs and be no more free rides for anyone!
I get up and go to work everyday just to get by and I am sick of the state of
Oklahoma making it easy for everyone else to just have more kids and get more
money!
GABE | 2:38 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
I AM FROM OKLAHOMA AND I AM ASHAMED OF THE LAW THAT IS SUPPOSE TO GO INTO EFFECT
NOV 1. YES IT HAS CREATED HATE AND YOU PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING IT HASN'T DO
NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. WHY SHOULD THE STATES SPEND OUR MONEY ON
IMMIGRATION WHEN WE DO HAVE FEDERAL LAWS TO GO BY. STOP SPENDING MY TAX DOLLARS
JUST TO END UP IN COURT FOR A LONG DRAWN OUT LAW SUIT. SENATOR TERRILL MUST BE
TRYING TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF
L | 3:22 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Gabe - I'm from Oklahoma too ... I think the law is "right on"
and I think it should be adopted by all other states as well. I think federal
laws should likewise be enforced just as I think local zoning laws should be
enforced equally.
I have personal friends in France, Canada and Mexico and I love and respect each. They are all welcome to come and visit me and any of them would make great neighbors ... BUT if they would break the law to become my neighbor, I would have a real problem with that!
Now if the problem is getting the processing done for people to be here legally, that seems to me as easy to cure by putting some money into the agencies that do the processing under the current laws to eliminate the backlog THAT CAN BE DONE and it may be cost effective to do that.
In the meantime we can debate policy about who, how many, and under what conditions we will permit people to immigrate and become full citizens.
If I went to France (or a bunch of other places) & stayed illigally, I wouldn't be welcomed or allowed.
I have personal friends in France, Canada and Mexico and I love and respect each. They are all welcome to come and visit me and any of them would make great neighbors ... BUT if they would break the law to become my neighbor, I would have a real problem with that!
Now if the problem is getting the processing done for people to be here legally, that seems to me as easy to cure by putting some money into the agencies that do the processing under the current laws to eliminate the backlog THAT CAN BE DONE and it may be cost effective to do that.
In the meantime we can debate policy about who, how many, and under what conditions we will permit people to immigrate and become full citizens.
If I went to France (or a bunch of other places) & stayed illigally, I wouldn't be welcomed or allowed.
beyond dispair | 3:25 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Too much talk. Not enough action. Illegal is breaking the law and nobody wants
to do anything about it. I hope you and your kids have a nice life in the
America you have chosen to live in. Me? I'm outta here. Israel sounds
mighty good to me. At least they back up the talk with some action. Whatever
happened to "Don't tread on me" philosophy?
Goodbye, cruel, inept american government.
Goodbye, cruel, inept american government.
Tim | 3:56 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
It seems to me that the first thing that needs to happen is to open up legal
immigration from Mexico and other US-hungry countries to more people. A lot of
people want to work in the US, and right now US could use the extra labor.
Once that law is changed, we can worry about the illegals.
All of you who claim you don't have issues with immigrants, just with the illegality of their actions...would you support a change in laws like I just mentioned?
If you don't, your real concern isn't people breaking the law.
Your problem might be that you're afraid of competition in the work force (in which case you probably need to consider getting a better education).
Or it might be that you're just racist (although you may call it something else).
Once that law is changed, we can worry about the illegals.
All of you who claim you don't have issues with immigrants, just with the illegality of their actions...would you support a change in laws like I just mentioned?
If you don't, your real concern isn't people breaking the law.
Your problem might be that you're afraid of competition in the work force (in which case you probably need to consider getting a better education).
Or it might be that you're just racist (although you may call it something else).
Spanish Fork | 5:26 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
If shoplifting laws weren't enforced, and everyone got to keep whatever
they could sneak out with, and without penalty, merchants would be stolen blind.
Illegal aliens may not actually be stealing your job, but they are certainly
depressing wages.
I wonder if Senator Hickman got permission from the Church before he speaks about creating such a bill. Concerning illegal immigrating the LDS Church is the 800 pound gorilla sitting quietly in the room.
I wonder if Senator Hickman got permission from the Church before he speaks about creating such a bill. Concerning illegal immigrating the LDS Church is the 800 pound gorilla sitting quietly in the room.
lost in DC | 8:30 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
William, I don�t hate them, I want them to obey the law.
They teach their children disrespect for the law, and those children have a
greater proclivity to join gangs as their shadow culture keeps them in a lower
economic state. They have no interest in assimilating into this society; all
they want to do is make money to send home. Why do they hate us so?
Paul, you should read the polls that the vast majority of Utahans want immigration laws enforced before you make ill-informed statements about the Republicans giving the election away by demanding tougher enforcement of immigration laws. BTW, you misused �whom� and it should be �our� not �are�
Jake P, if they were Canadian they would be deported in a heartbeat with no bleeding liberals crying racism in their support.
Anonymous, they have done things to endanger our borders. Debilitating drugs are funneled through by violent gangs. They destroy the environment cutting trails through delicate ecosystems and litter forests and campgrounds.
Paul, you should read the polls that the vast majority of Utahans want immigration laws enforced before you make ill-informed statements about the Republicans giving the election away by demanding tougher enforcement of immigration laws. BTW, you misused �whom� and it should be �our� not �are�
Jake P, if they were Canadian they would be deported in a heartbeat with no bleeding liberals crying racism in their support.
Anonymous, they have done things to endanger our borders. Debilitating drugs are funneled through by violent gangs. They destroy the environment cutting trails through delicate ecosystems and litter forests and campgrounds.
Anonymous | 9:45 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Lost in DC: If there weren't such high demand for illegal drugs in this
country, we would not have a market for them, legal or otherwise, drugs can be
bad. Additionally, have you read the papers lately? Employees of Delta Airlines
were arrested for importing illegal drugs, were these people violent gang
members?
What part of our environment have drug smugglers destroyed? Where do you get your information? I invite you to read the Daily Herald more closely and be informed.
What part of our environment have drug smugglers destroyed? Where do you get your information? I invite you to read the Daily Herald more closely and be informed.
Brendy | 5:11 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
All these people posting who support illegal aliens - how about housing
them/educating them - they produce kids every nine months/feeding them/clothing
them/medicating them with YOUR money NOT mine! MY tax dollars are intended for
American Citizens; yet those of YOU who support illegals send THEIR money BACK
HOME to THEIR countries. Yeah, the illegals are really interested in being
American, helping American citizens.
Edie | 10:59 a.m. Nov. 1, 2007
The sad thing is that this is becoming a service economy like Mexico. Not many
middle class jobs in the service sector. We need to mechanize as many low wage
jobs as we can. The mechanization would take place over a number of years.
Companies could manufacturer more items with less workers. The workers would be retrained with skills to maintain, monitor and operate the machines/computers. New manufacturing jobs would open up because now we would be in a position to compete with countries such as China. No more importing goods that U.S. citizens use, that are made by foreign workers. This would in fact bring up the standard of living for the newly trained workers because they would be receiving higher wages. Producing more goods with less, but more highly skilled workers, is what this country should be reaching for.
Companies could manufacturer more items with less workers. The workers would be retrained with skills to maintain, monitor and operate the machines/computers. New manufacturing jobs would open up because now we would be in a position to compete with countries such as China. No more importing goods that U.S. citizens use, that are made by foreign workers. This would in fact bring up the standard of living for the newly trained workers because they would be receiving higher wages. Producing more goods with less, but more highly skilled workers, is what this country should be reaching for.
Anonymous | 11:01 a.m. Nov. 1, 2007
Also, for those who are physically and mentally unable to work, these are the
only ones who would receive welfare. In fact any aid received by any U.S.
citizen should be dependent on them working at some type of job, except if they
are mentally or physically unable too. I am talking about being accountable for
ones self and ones family. These businesses want their cheap labor subsidized
by someone else other than themselves. Them not wanting to pay a decent wage
is what got us in his position in the first place. Along with the corrupt
countries that illegal immigrants come from.
Charles | 10:14 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
I live in Tulsa and Sharmit is a paid liar for illegal aliens and their cheap
labor supporters. Oklahoma has the third lowest unemployment rate in the
country.Our popular legislation-1804-opens jobs for Americans not
lawbreakers.Businesses who exploit cheap labor love to have a steady flow of low
wage labor.In Oklahoma we now can spend more on law abiding citizens and their
health,and education needs. The illegal alien invasion brings drugs,gangs,and
drunk driving.Utah needs to pass similar great legislation.
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It violates whose "equal protection" rights? Equal protection does not free one from the obligation of obeying the law. And how does this law override federal authority? The Oklahoma law doesn't decide who gets to be a legal immigrant and who does not. It's simply enforcing laws against people the federal govt aready says are illegal.
*** "Immigration is set by the federal government and enforced by the federal government," he said. "The main argument we have is the state of Oklahoma is trying to enforce immigration laws." ***
There all all sorts of state laws that duplicate federal laws. Hate crimes laws, laws against racial discrimination, laws against narcotics. I don't see Sharma and his ilk opposing state hate crimes laws.
Sharma & Co want open borders. That's all there is to it. They don't want the feds enforcing immigration laws, either. That's why they've sued the federal government to stop federal enforcement of the laws.