Deseret News | Prominent Dallas minister says Romney no Christian

Reader comments
Prominent Dallas minister says Romney no Christian

221 comments | Read story

mnk | 10:04 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007

I am in full support of the Reverand. Mormonism and Christianity are two different things. Christians shuold not vote for this man just because he says he is a christian, which he probably isn't if he believes what every mormon believes. Therefore no one from the evangilical circles should endorse his candidature just because he talks the talk. And genuine bible believing Christians should not vote for him thinking they are putting a christian into the white house. VOTE FOR HIM IF YOU THINK HE WOULD MAKE A GOOD PRESIDENT!!!!!

Conejo | 10:10 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007

The accusation is meaningless. What would they say if President Hinckley got up in conference and loudly proclaimed. "Baptists are NOT Mormons!" For a faith that places such an emphasis on the fact that the name of your church has NO bearing on your salvation it is interesting to note they stress while they may not claim it the way the Mormons do. They really are saying "We are the only true church."

grow-up | 11:32 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Rev. Jeffress stated:
he was "neither for nor against Mitt Romney ... he may make a worthy president."
His point was to clarify to his congregation that Mormonism is not Christianity. That is what he should do. Its bibical to defend Christianity, just as Mormons defend Mormonism.
This does not make a person a digot.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 11:52 a.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Conejo | 10:10 a.m.
Your logic is flawed. And Elder Holland DID get up in conference and give a detailed explanation as to exactly why Mormons are NOT Christianity, which is what Rev. Jeffress said! He did not say that Mormons are not "Christians", he said "Mormonism is not Christiantiy." And Holland endorsed that view by showing precisely wherein Mormons differ in their theology from the 2,000 year-old theology that is central to "Christianity". Why are Mormons so defensive about what Rev. Jeffress said? It can only be because they don't even understand their own theology and really don't listen to their leaders - especially Elder Holland.

Not Dallas Dan | 12:32 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Point of View - I was talking to a Jewish guy and his wife who is an Episcopalian,the other day who thought Texas Baptists belonged to a cult where they live in the desert, don't pay taxes, shoot Federal agents and have multiple wives as well burn down their houses when threatened. I told him no that's not true. Texas Baptists are just as normal as Mormons.

SFCFRETDENNIS | 12:46 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

So grow-up, you and everyone ells needs to grow up and before you condemn a belief you need to understand it and look in to their doctrine and not what a person of another fath might say who know little to nothing about it or a person who lavas a church if I wonï¿½t to know something about a church of a different church then I talk with someone of that fath who belies it and lives it this way I get the straight scoop.

ladyblueyes | 1:01 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

"Reverend Jeffress is nothing more than a college graduate with an opinion. He can think whatever he likes. The ancient Jewish leaders didn't consider Jesus to be the Promised Messiah, and that didn't change reality. Mormons know who they are, and thats what matters"

Amen.

And furthermore ... I think that Mitt has as good a shot at being a great president as Fred Thompson, I think Barac Obama needs a bit more seasoning and that Hilary should be taken out of the mix completely.

We ARE Christians as we show by our works and our faith. It's sad that the Rev. hasn't a clue as to our beliefs, but, how many people really do? Most of us are not the type that 'believe as we are told' but truly know what we believe! ... continue in your good works, people, and vote for the best person to lead our country.

BlacksInTheScriptures.com | 1:23 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

I feel so sorry for this minister trying to grow his revenues by attacking Romney. I feel even more sorry for anyone who tries to tell anyone else what they are and what they believe. I would venture to say that this brother is not a Christian. Because his public criticism and judgement of Romney is un-Christ like behavior.

Wrong | 1:36 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Hey grow-up,

So if everybody who is not Baptist professes that Rev. Jeffress is not a Christian, this is just a defense. Wrong! Sounds more like offensive to me.

By the way, Rev. Jeffress does not speak for Jesus Christ. Rev. Jeffress is spitting hate when he calls followers of Jesus Christ a cult. It's biblical to defend Christianity, so he should defend Mormonism, which not only talks of Christ but has been given priesthood authority to be led by Christ.

Rev. Jeffress should be as critical of his own authority that came from some self-educated school, before he unwittingly attacks people who follow Christ more closely than he does himself.

Baptists are not Christians | 1:42 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Being from the south and among a strong contingent of southern Baptist, I can tell you that this is very common among the Baptist Ministry. I was once Baptist, myself, and these men discriminate quite often for another personï¿½s belief. Baptist ministers are worried about one thing and that is their wallet. It is plain and simple. These men are ignorant and discriminating against another person's belief is quite common among their congregations. However, this country allows such bigotry and they clearly do not understand the meaning of Christianity. The plain and simple truth is the trend of people leaving the Baptist faith and the possibility of these men losing revenue from their congregation is occurring. Like unto what Peter referred to as Filthy Lucre to Simon, these men have sold their eternal salvation for the almighty dollar to preach the word of God. I never remembered reading about Paul receiving payment for preaching or conducting missionary work among the Jews, Greeks or Romans.

I am not Mormon but know plenty of Mormon's that have helped me in my life. They are truly Christians in my book and I have received more help from them than any Baptist ministry.

So. Cal Reader | 2:03 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Just one thought for all:
Matt. 7: 1-2
1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

george | 2:21 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

It's a shame that other "Christians" are willing to bash other religions. Would Christ Himself approve of this behavior? I think it is very sad that people are quick to judge other religions due to their lack of knowledge in that religion. These people put so much time, effort and money in bringing down others that it saddens me. I wonder what Reverend Jeffress would have said in his congregation that day had Christ been sitting in the front pew?

Jeff | 2:46 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

TOO BAD IT DOESNT MATTER>>> GO HILLARY!!!!!

JEFF | 2:53 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

HILLARY RULES!!!!!

the heathen | 3:23 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

let him run! If he were not allowed to then I would really be concerned ...let the minister speak , if he were not allowed to then I would know I was in southern Utah for sure! Maybe my minority son can be president someday.NOT! At least according to the majority down this way who send the ever lasting message, through sports, courts, and school!

AS | 3:42 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

The Baptist Church is a business in every sense of the word. I have been among the congregation and was once a member. It's embarrassing to me now.

James | 3:45 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Don't you all watch South Park? The Mormons are right, and that's all that matters.

Give me an Atheist President | 4:22 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

To all those who said religious beliefs should not be brought up in politics I totally agree. Someone using the christian card is no different than using the race card. I would vote for an satanist just the same as I would vote for a christian. The only thing that matters is what they stand for in politics. There are just as many bad christians as their are good ones so religion should have nothing to do with the candidate running.

Lyle | 4:49 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Romney sounds a lot like Reid. "Face the Nation": "My church wouldn't endeavor to tell me what to do on an issue, and I wouldn't listen to them on an issue that related to our nation." I suppose he, like Reid, believes that when the Prophets speak concerning the US Constitution, as did Ezra Taft Benson, then they are leading the membership astray.

Death Penalty | 6:26 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

Can't wait until the IRS invokes the death penalty for this preacher's tax exempt organization. I wonder if he will enjoy life without his BMW.

to Lyle | 8:41 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007

President Benson never once spoke about the Constitution while he was the Prophet and more importantly while he was receiving revelation for the Church as a whole. As an individual (as opposed to as an apostle), President Benson did a lot of things that many of the Church leadership disagreed with, including President McKay. But that does not mean President Benson was evil (or of course representing how all church members should be), he was just doing what he believed to be right and true for HIMSELF. President Benson was a die-hard right-wing Republican, who in many ways was overly caught up in the issues of his time (spread of Communism, etc.) but he never once as Prophet said we as Church members should be as he is (or once was -- some people argue that Pres Benson changed once he became Prophet). You should not mistake the actions of an individual, whether it's the Prophet or a local deacon, as representing those of the Church unless specifically stated. (Otherwise you would get pretty confused trying to follow the personal-life examples of both Pres Faust and Pres Benson when they were involved in activities as individuals not representing the Church.)

Can You Say "Clueless"? | 12:27 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

First, to anyone who doesn't think Latter-day Saints are not Christians (and I'm talking about the Church in general and our doctrinal beliefs, not every single member, so please, fellow readers, no stories about LDS members you knew who treated you wrong..."let he who is w/o sin throw the first stone")....get a clue. How anyone can actually believe that is beyond me. Every time I hear that Mormons "are not Christians" I'm stuck between laughing and sighing in exasperation.
Second, a preacher who claims to be a Christian, whose sole job it is to lead people to goodness and stand up for what is right, openly criticizes Mitt Romney for not being Christian (in his opinion, essentially "not good") but then weasels out of his stance by saying, and I quote, he's "neither for nor against Mitt Romney....he may make a good president". What? So, just how, as a preacher, can you condemn a man for having no goodness (which he must not have since Romney's w/o Christ, right?) and then say he might make a good president? This Rev. Jeffress guy is so screwed up he doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

Mormonism shows its face | 8:27 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Mormonism always shows if face in dialog like this mean, thoughtless and the opposite of turning the cheek, which I think Jesus taught also. Jesus said to even love your enemies, wow what love don't think I need what you all have got. Thanks for reaffirmation

dennis | 9:42 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

When it comes to Mormonism the bottom lines is this: either Joseph Smith was telling the truth or was lying.
He preached that all other forms of Christianity are wrong (especially catholicism) but his.
If this is "the truth" than how can it be said that Mormonism is "Christian"?

Pat Hewitt | 10:53 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Dear dennis:

Wherever honesty, truth, chastity, benevolence, virtue, and doing good is we seek after these things, we work with the Catholic Church to promote these things and other churches also. We accept and seek after these things in all the places they occur, at the insistence of our leaders especially the Lord Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith His prophet who wrote this thirteenth article of our faith.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paulï¿½We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. IF THERE IS ANYTHING VIRTUOUS, LOVELY, OR OF GOOD REPORT OR PRAISEWORTHY, WE SEEK AFTER THESE THINGS.

Pat Hewitt | 10:58 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Dear "the heathen",

There is hope, look at Louisiana!!!

dennis | 11:12 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Dear Pat Hewitt:
Yours was a nice testimony. But you must realize whenever any group deliberately sets itself apart from the rest, trouble is sure to follow.

Pat Hewitt | 11:14 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Dear Conejo,

What if the President got up and said, "Baptists have no assocation with the church of Jesus Christ"
Then we would have a discussion, the Prominent Dallas minister would get a inkling of how it makes us, Latter-day Saints, feel when we hear we are not Christians.

dennis | 11:17 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Dear Pat Hewitt:
Also please try to understand that things "virtuous" (as you put it) are in the eye of the beholder.
And from the Roman Catholic point of view, (the word catholic meaning universal) that although different protestant groups broke away from the original Christian church, catholics STILL believe groups like Mormons are always welcome. That is why their churches are never locked.

Chicago Perspective | 1:17 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

So some random minister in Dallas says that Mormons are not Christian and that Mormonism is a Cult?

WOW!!! This changes everything...

Chicago | 1:32 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Yep its history repeating itself, didn't Paul say if anyone comes bring another gospel let them be accursed (even if an angel showed up with it), glad he didn't say "let them be called a non christian, we would be stoning him today. oh for you non bible whizzes thats Galatians 1:8-9.

Anonymous | 4:12 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

I think all formal, organized religions have lost their way. They have all turned into social clubs with differing rules and secret handshakes all thinking they've aced the other group out.
Reminds me of the old good news/bad news story: Good news: Jesus is coming back - bad news: ...and boy is he ever angry!

Waste Not | 5:08 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

The rampant self-deception in the Mormon Church is unbelievable. People have invested so much of their lives into the Church (Tithing, "activity", missions, wearing strange underwear, etc.) they have a vested interest in ensuring that their investment is not a waste. That is why they reject reason, science, and common sense in order to blindly and boldly assert "I KNOW the Church is TRUE!" They seem to be trying to convince themselves! Because if it isn't true, how horrible it would be to have wasted all that time and money and devotion!?

Listen | 5:49 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Jeff: Mormons are not Christians. They are a cult.
Joe: How dare you! YOU are not Christian because you said that!
Jeff: Well then you are not Christian for saying that I'm not Christian.
Joe: Well you are DOUBLE not Christian for saying that!
Jeff: What are you talking about?
Joe: I would like to bury my testimony... "Follow the prophet, don't lose your way..."
Jeff: Do you know what a "cult" is?
Joe: Yes, it is a religion, and we are a religion, so we are a cult, and that is not a bad thing, but you are not a Christian because you called us a cult.

Read about it | 6:13 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Someone please get Elder Holland's talk from conference to this lost brother. It clearly answers his misguided assesment.

What was the name of the that cult...

The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.

Hmmm.

Anonymous | 6:16 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Listen | 5:49 p.m.

Excellent! Good job!

A Thought | 9:34 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Sunday I wrote something similar, but it got lost somewhere in cyberspace. It deals with the Idea of what's sometimes called "Negative Advertizing" and how it ties into the Texas preacher's comments.

Every year in the month or two before an election we see many many polical ads where one candidate (the one buying the ad) speaks very little about him/herself but heaps lots of "stuff" on the "other guy". A classic example: the 1964
Presidental campaing where Barry Goldwater ran against Lyndon B. Johnson. One of Johnson's TV ads
just showed a young child with a "Mushroom Cloud" in the distance with Goldwater's name near by. As the seconds progressed in the commercial, the "Mushroom Cloud" got bigger and bigger. No real audio was present except the sound of a child playing. This commercial obviously was implying that a vote for Goldwater would be a vote for Nuclear war.

Is there a parallel to what the Texas minister/preacher is doing and this type of presentation?? Any Thoughts??

Some people that do research have concluded that this type of advertizing does get some people to follow along enough TO BE very much influenced.

Any thoughts??

A thought | 9:50 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007

Yep I see where your going those who vote and think a connection to the LDS is not a real issue is like someone with their head in the cloud. Good point

In vs Out | 11:47 a.m. Oct. 24, 2007

Instead of going outside to find the answers "somewhere out there" why not turn inward and find out what's going on "in there?"

David | 11:54 a.m. Oct. 24, 2007

The opinion of Baptists will never change. They still believe that they and only they are the only true Christians. Everyone else are not the true christians.

Anonymous | 12:40 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

And now it's Baptists who are the "bad guys."
These truly must be "The Last Days."

John Pack Lambert | 12:59 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

I have no problems with people opposing Mitt Romney. They have every right to do that. However to do so with lies and by maligning millions of others is unacceptable. I have at times had people refuse the Book of Mormon on the grounds that it is a tool of the devil. Such is based on false information that originiates with people who know they are lieing. TO claim that the Latter-day Saints do not believe in the atoning blood of Jesus Christ and it being neccesary for people to return to our Father in Heaven is to lie and speak falsehoods.
Yes, Joseph Smith taught that no other church had the true authority of God or all truth, but he never denied that they did believe in Jesus Christ and that they had a right to be named Christians.
I would like to know if Reverend Jefferies considers Catholics to be Christians. Without knowing his answer to that question I can not fully asses his position.

John Pack Lambert | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

It is nice to go on about what the Latin routes of the word cult are. However the fact is that cult has a connotavie meaning in English, that brings to mind Jonestown.
I would also say some church members are too mistrustful of the FLDS church. I understand at the same time that saying that will be twisted by someone into me supporting polygamy, pedophiles and abandonment of teenaged boys.
I had a companion on my mission who would end at nothing in denouncing Scientology, and seemed to support his native France's attempts to suppress the movement. I feel we need to give all groups freedom to act as they want to in order to preserve our own freedom.
As long as cult brings up images of mass suicide in the minds of most people we should fight its application to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in popular discorse.
The Doctrine and Covemants says many people are kept from the truth because they do not know where to find it, and many people do not know where to find it because they have been blinded by lies.

John Pack Lambert | 1:19 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

To say that belief in revelation is not an acceptable belief on the part of a president of the United States is to establish an unacceptable, and unconstitutional religious test for the presidency.
Elder Holland addressed the trinity doctrine head on. He is a religious scholar and understands the completities and the history of the notion of the trinity better than most Trinetarians do. We are not complaining at people for speaking ill of tithing, temple marriage, the notion of an anthropormorphic God or that Jesus Christ visited America after his resurection. If Dr. Jeffries got up and said that people should not vote for Romney because he believes in a God who has a physical body, I would say more power to him. True, it might be a hard argument to sell, but I would not complain. However to get up and say people should not vote for Romney because he does not believe that Jesus Christ is the "author and the finisher of our Salvation" or something else to that effect I will complain about because it is an outright lie.

John Lambert | 1:30 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

To True Christian all I have to say is what of the early Christians giving all their goods to the church. Is this not an example of an overbearing and overpowerful church?
Corinthians 7:12 mentions "Our care for you in the sight of God". Hometeaching and interviews are a way of caring for and blessing others.
In Jeremiah 31:28 we learn that the Lord will watch over us. How is this done? In many ways, but this is a part of the Lord's admonition to "feed my sheep". A sheepherd watches over his flock and so to fulfill Jesus' admonition to Peter, the leaders of the church must watch over the church. You can dislike the church watching over and caring for and lifting the members, but you can not claim it is unbiblical.

John Pack Lambert | 1:34 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

To fredd the Catholic I would say that contacting and reaching out to the members of the church is not a method of harrassing but a method of fulfilling the Lord's admonition to feed his sheep. We have an obligation to care for, reach out and try to help and lift our fellow man.

John Pack Lambert | 1:39 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

Joseph Smith never said that Mormons were not Christians nor did he ever say that Christianity was an abomination to God.
To began with, the fact that he represents the words of the first vision as having been spoken by Jesus Christ (you can claim that he lied, but you have to admit he said it was Jesus Christ) makes such a statement stupid.
This building of the dicotomy of "Mormons vs. Christians" is a total lie.
One of the gripes some lob against the Book of Mormon is that it has people living before Christ being called Christian and looking forward to his coming. However you think the Book of Mormon was made, you can not say that a Book that says of "There is no other name or way whereby Salvation may come, only in and through the name of Jesus Christ." and "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we prophesy of Christ and we write according to our prophecies that our children may know to what source they should look for a remission of their sins" is anything but Christian.

in vs out | 1:47 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

If God's word is true the inside is the wrong place to start, Eph.2:1-3 (thats in the New Testament), and it says we were not good and we are in the control of satan and heading for destruction, "But God who is rich in mercy..." I dont' solve the inward problem apart from looking outward to God. But I'm sure thats what you meant. "for by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of youself it is a gift of God not of works lest anyone should boast."

Christianity: salvation Faith by Grace in Jesus
Mormonism: salvation Faith by Grace in Jesus and good works

(No Problem saying their not the same no use being offended at looking at the differences. Honesty is a great friend for dialog)

Silliness | 1:51 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

If you have ever read the Baptist's definition of a Christian, you will see that it is the definition of a Baptist, or more generally a Protestant.

So it is true Mormons are not Baptists or Protestants, just like Catholics are not Baptists or Protestants.

So this means that Mormons and Catholics are not Christians (Baptists) in the minds of those who have been fed this silly definition of a Christian.

Mormons and Catholics have no interest in being Protestants (Baptists) so who cares.

Anyone can make up silly definitions and defend them with what ever irrational thinking they want.

Let the silly people be. Don't give them any more mileage with their silliness. They do not deserve any press time for switching their brains off.

John Pack Lambert | 1:53 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007

To say Mormons were taught that Protestant ministers were on the devils payroll is a misrepresentation of teachings. It is to understand symbolic teachings literally and to misconstrue their import and message.
Yes, Bruce R. McConkie said something against the Catholics. However the church would not let him publish his book again unless he withdrew that statement. The most virulent anti-Catholicism I ever heard came from someone who had been a member less than a month. I would have to say it had been more influenced by the teachings of protestant denominations.
Most early Mormons came from extremely anti-Catholic cultures and to hold anti-Catholicism against them is unacceptable. Anyway, there is much more anti-Catholicism in protestantism.
Last thought, if you can find one Mormon anywhere saying we should not vote for a canidate because he is a Catholic you might have a point. Until then you are just engaged in character assaination.

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.