Reader comments
Trolley Square survivor calls need for tighter gun laws 'obvious'

My heart goes to Mr. Hanson, but when he says "We're becoming uncivilized" because of gun ownership, he's wrong.

Consider the folowing statement by Marko Kloos: "When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act."

Gun laws don't stop crimes or the actions of the mentally ill or physcopaths. Gun laws to allow more self defense actions are what we need. Disarming the american people is not going to fix the acts of criminals and their actions. People getting shot and killed are the results of strict gun laws. The more you try to control guns the more violence and crimes grows. It's not the gun laws that need to be changed, it's the justice system that needs to be changed and enforcement of criminal detention.

I'm sorry, but once again these people are completely oblivious to reality. How many laws did he break already? How difficult is it for some people to grasp that criminals are so named because they BREAK THE LAW? Let the innocent carry to defend themselves instead of wishing there was a cop around the corner. You may very well be dead if the off duty officer hadn't been there with a gun. Your efforts to deny those not in the presence of an officer a chance at survival are appalling and subhuman. I wish you a speedy recovery, but I wish for every possible stumbling block in your path to disarming the innocent who do not want to be prey for the mentally deranged murders that walk among us. spend your time working on the social problems that contribute to the real problem rather then blaming an inanimate object.

Yes we are becoming uncivilized, but outlawing guns will accomplish nothing except that the uncivilized will then be able to wreak havoc on the civilized. What we needed were more people at trolley square with concealed weapons.

The thing that really needs to be outlawed because it kills WAY more people (like 1000 times more people than guns) in the US is illicit drugs. We need to do something about Heroin, Meth, cocaine etc Why haven't we outlawed these things? I demand that we outlaw them! Oh wait, we did, but uncivilized people still manage to get them from uncivilized people in other countries. Isn't that amazing. Same story with guns. If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.... How many times do we have to say that before you phony liberals wake up? Also, then if we are attacked by another country or by our own government which sees that we are sitting ducks, then we lose our freedom.

Gun control is not about guns, it is about control

Criminals love gun control, it makes there job easier and safer.

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, POEPLE KILL PEOPLE

Who among us doesn't feel sympathy for victims of violent crime? But should we allow our emotions to dictate what laws are passed?

The facts are: Talovic broke the law when he went on his murderous rampage. He broke the law when he acquired at least one, and maybe both, of his guns. He violated the "No Guns" policy of Trolley Square. There are currently over 20,000 gun laws on the books in America. None of them stopped him and the Dept. of Justice has published the results of a study of those laws and could not provide evidence that they had been successful in stopping any gun crime. Criminals "just laughed at gun laws". Gun laws do not work. The only thing that stopped Talovic was another man with a gun. Thanks to him the body count was much lower than it could have been.

I agree with what everyone has said. Do you really think Talovic would have obeyed a gun law? We do need to change the law though. We need to require everyone to carry a gun.

My heart goes out to you red necks when your child ends up taking your gun to school or blowing themselves away during a rough time in their life. When was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen deterring crime because they were packing heat? My guess is not as often as some of these other tragedies.

Anonymous recycles the old "wild-eyed redneck" stereotype.

What he/she fails to recognize is that highly-publicized shootings such as the ones at Trolley Square and Virginia Tech are the rare exception, not the rule.

(And in the two cases described above, they occurred in "gun free" zones).

The Politically-Incorrect fact is that most homicide victims as well as most murderers are minority males aged 18-25, and most of these homicides occur as a result of the drug trade and gang warfare.

The average white middle-class Utahn has about the same chance of being murdered as his British and Scandinavian cousins.

For Anon: "When was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen deterring crime because they were packing heat? My guess is not as often as some of these other tragedies."

Please Google for the website "Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog." Be sure to read every account and check the extensive archives. This is only one location where this information can be found. There are more if you are willing to look unless you prefer making guesses. However, you really should do some research before you "guess" ... you'll sound more intelligent.

"When was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen deterring crime because...." hmmm...isn't an off duty police officer a "gun wielding citizen"? The "gun wielding citizen" saved many lives that day. Let's be realistic, Police don't stop crime, they investigate crime. Arm yourself.

You said "when was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen deterring crime because they were packing heat"? Did you not follow the Trolley Square shooting?? A gun wielding citizen, STOPPED this madman's rampage!!! You call the people commenting "rednecks", however, when some criminal breaks into your home to rape and pillage your family, I would be willing to bet you don't want to WAIT for the police to show up! I bet you would be wishing you had a gun, to blow away the scumbag that is violating you?! If you want stiffer gun laws? Why not stiffer knife laws? Knives have been known to kill people too! Why not stiffer rope laws? People have been strangled by using rope! Why not stiffer driving laws?, last time I checked automobiles kill more people daily than do guns!!!
If you want to deter criminals, make them accountable! Make their punishments severe enough that they know the consequences. Enforce the death penalty! Have crimianls turn big rocks into small rocks (like the old days). The problem is criminals are NOT AFRAID of their punishments!

Stereotypes again, there has been a substantial increase in homicides from guns in Salt Lake City/County this year and not just among minorities. Mass shootings are not the exception. We've become so blase about this problem a shooting where 3, 4 or 5 lives are extinguished often doesn't make the national news. A sad indictment of a violent society.

Jonny, did you know more people are killed every year by drunk drivers than by all other means of homicide combined? That includes guns! Yet, I don't see anyone calling for more alcohol control.

So who's being blase?

So...we aren't a more violent, uncivilized society? You "arm everybody" gun freaks contradict yourselves. If it's necessary that everyone be armed to be safe, that qualifies the fact that we are indeed a violent and yes, uncivilized society.

To Jonny and Anonymouse, please consider the following statement from a wise statesman who recently passed away:
"Weapons are the tools of power. Weapons compound man's power to achieve whatever purpose he may have...without them man is diminished and his opportunities to fulfill his destiny are lessened. An unarmed man can only flee from evil and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
Jeff Cooper

Indeed, gun laws only affect the law-abiding.

ABC News' 20/20 presented "Myths, Lies and Straight Talk." This was a list of 10 media-fed myths. #5 - Guns are always bad for us" Here are a few highlights:

"The Centers for Disease Control recently completed a review of studies of various types of gun control: background checks, waiting periods, bans on certain guns and ammunition. It could not document that these rules have reduced violent crime."

"The government wants to say regulations and laws like the Brady Gun Control Law are making a difference, but they aren't. Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them."

"A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed."

Did you catch that? Felons fear armed citizens more than anything else.

"It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control."

That is what we need more of in America.

Do you think disarming everyone would create a non-violent civilized society? It certainly hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried.

Jay, I am not blase about any loss of life, whether it be at the hands drunk driver or someone with a gun. A common theme throughout this thread is why change gun laws, they don't stop criminals who are intent on committing crimes. If that's the case, why do we have any laws if they are going to be broken anyway? Sounds like you want to pick and choose which laws should be passed and enforced based on the criteria of whether it is your ox (guns) being gored.

No Jonny, we're not picking and choosing.

My sacred ox is the safety of me and mine.
We've understood that to overcome those with evil intent, one must NOT 'play fair'.

IF there were no such things as guns, humanity would be ruled again by the law of
"THE STRONGEST, QUICKEST WINS".
If the strongest happens to be of evil intent.
Evil wins.

Guns are the ultimate EQUALIZER!
The 80yo, 98lb arthritic can STOP the assault of a 20yo, 300lb dopehead, hell bent on mayhem.

ANYONE can put down a madmad, armed with whatever, who has decided that TODAY, he will have his 15min of fame.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to completely disarm those of evil intent. So be it! Therefore, the law-abiding MUST be armed. This isn't a collegiant exercise, it's life. Mine, others and YOURS.

The right of SELF DEFENSE is an inalienable one and the intrumentality of that defense is of no concern. The EASIEST to use, most EFFECTIVE instrument of self defense is A GUN.

You may decide not to have a gun. That's OK. You have the right to decide that. I have the right to decide too.

I will have a gun!