Deseret News | A $400 million Utah surplus?

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A $400 million Utah surplus?

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Scartissue | 3:57 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Teacher,
Again, who can't complain about their job. I love what I do, but it gets tiring spending 3 days out of town for a conference and missing that time with my family and still getting a salary based on 40 hrs/week. I do it because I love my job, but it gets harder as I can't spend as much time doing what I love about my job because my supervisors expect more and more meaningless reports. I also have to deal with clients who don't want to listen, and even worse, I deal with clients who want to listen but don't get the support from their corporate offices. Yes, I deal with it because I need the job, but give me back my money that is now a surplus.
Teachers need to stop acting like they have a monopoly on complaints about low pay and being overworked.

Middle School Teacher | 4:00 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I'm the teacher that posted at 11:34 this morning. Mr. "Utah Citizen", I wish I could work 12 months of the year like people in other jobs. Unfortunately, teaching skills aren't that marketable in other fields when you can only commit for 3 months in the summer. I don't need or want 3 months off, but I am driven to teach and make a difference in the world. Why don't we solve the problem of lower test scores, etc. by changing the school year to 12 months instead of 9? Oh, and by the way, we do teach a minimum of 40 hours a week nearly every week just like everyone else. Plus 3 days of paid time off for the school year. Managing the behaviors of 30 to 40 adolescents well enough to have their attention on what is being taught is a skill I'd like to see you try.

How about this suggestion, use the money as a fund to help teachers pay for getting a masters degree, like most businesses do for their employees. Then we can move up the pay scale a little and earn our way without accruing massive student loan debt.

Utah Citizen | 4:01 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Yes, I work 6 days a week, every week, from sun-up to sundown to support my family and you don't hear me complaining. It's my choice. Respect is earned it is not a free gift.

Comments continue below

Grumpy | 4:11 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Surplus or not, every year teachers and the UEA will be telling us they need more money (and it isn't only Utah). Every state has the same problem. Education always needs more money and even if they get everything they ask for this year and another increased budget next year they will always need more.

Middle School Teacher | 4:25 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Honestly, I'm not complaining. I love my job, I certainly work hard enough to have the respect of anyone who knows me, and I feel I make the world a better place through the work that I do. I just don't have a boss to go ask for a raise from. This sort of thing is my only recourse. Should I say nothing and quit hoping? If so, can you recommend a good depression therapist?

Many bloggers above have noted that Utah is 50th in the nation for teacher pay scale. Are we sure we shouldn't do something about that? How about we just set a goal to be 49th...

Junior High Teacher | 4:31 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Two years ago I kept track of every hour I spent doing school business outside of my contract time. I averaged 80 additional hours per month -- the equivalent of a 20/hr/wk part time job that would have helped me pay off my student loan. This is NOT a complaint, just a surprising observation, since I was did not realize how many hours I was truly working for free. In addition to the hours at my school, I volunteered in the evenings, weekend, and summers at my sons' school. For two summers I worked nearly 40/hr/wk. This is NOT a complaint.

My husband also works long, hard hours -- on salary. He earns vacation days on top of having several paid federal holidays per year. I do not. This is NOT a complaint.

When a teacher talks about 40+ students in a classroom built for 20, and several of the 40 are sitting on the floor or sharing desks and chairs, we are NOT complaining, we ARE discussing the facts of our working/teaching conditions.

Anonymous | 4:37 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Most people work day in and day out and never compain like those who teach. I love my job and put in many more that the 40 hour work week. Teachers knew when the decided to tech what the pay was and so don't complain now. I happen to be at a school in Ogden the other day and you should have seen this teacher he had on shorts and a red shirt that looked like he had pulled it out of the dryer to soon. Part of teaching in by example and the way a person dresses says a lot. More money to teachers is not the answer. Give me my money back.

jackhp | 4:41 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Six days a week sun up to sun down, huh? Do you work less in the winter?

It's still not every day, which is the standard you applied to teachers in claiming they only work 6 months of the year.

Junior High Teacher | 4:46 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

We NEED to prepare for our future. Overburdened property owners will not be able to pay rapidly increasing property taxes. Our students will not be prepared for upcoming grade levels if taught -- even by the best -- in severely overcrowded classrooms without necessary materials.

As was mentioned earlier, an abundance of taxes is not surplus money to be spent willy-nilly. It seems obvious to me that it is a sign, not only of economic growth, but of over-taxation. Let's use this money to lower debt which will release funds for educational needs, and reduce the overall tax rate.

At the same time, however, I believe that the tax deductions for children create a segment of the population that uses the most resources in education, yet pays the least to support the education system. My husband and I have two children, our neighbors had four. They always received a substantial tax refund, we did not.

The child deduction should be reduced by $500-1000/child and that money applied directly to the education fund for use in purchasing consumable materials (textbooks, science materials, manipulatives, etc).

Utah Citizen | 5:35 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

to jackhp:
186 contract days working
365 days in a year.
your a school teacher, do the math!

lost in DC | 5:59 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

To Utah citizen,

First, I am not a teacher, nor am I married to one. Next, it's obvious your teachers weren't paid enough to adequately teach you. You should have said, "you're a teacher," not, "your a teacher." Don't denigrate teachers if you can't even get simple 4th grade punctuate correct. Also, teachers may only have so many days on their contracts, but temporary jobs during the summer hardly supplement what is a very low paying job; the 186 day contract really precludes them from doing much else. Required staff meetings and pre-term prepping also take extra time from the teachers. Providing a living wage to teachers is hardly ï¿½just throwing moneyï¿½ at the problem. We are last or next to last in per-pupil spending, but our standardized test scores are far from the bottom because of the dedicated, hard working teachers you the rest of your ilk so easily denigrate. Letï¿½s finally start rewarding them.

Anonymous | 6:00 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Rediculous.... Since they already collected the taxes, just invest it into the school system. The $50 dollars they taxed me on already would do so much better towards the alaries of teachers.

Steven Jarvis | 6:17 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Teacher salaries aren't the most critical need in education.

We need to appropriate those educational surplus funds for hiring more teachers, building schools and getting class sizes down to appropriate numbers. There are no ifs ands or buts about this problem, and I am tired of the excuse the government gives for while we fail to adequately fund Public schools, especially when we are now in year four of booming surplus. We got too many kids in the classrooms. I wonder if the State fire marshal would close down a school for having too many students in a room. But some of the middle school classrooms I have subbed in likely exceeded the legal limit. These are children not kindling. They deserve an educational environment with smaller class sizes and the only way we can do that is by building more schools and hiring more teachers.

Teacher Wages Competetive | 6:40 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

We can always hire more teachers from Mexico like we did this school year. They are doing quite a good job and are really helping teach bilingual kids. Our wages are still competitive compared to Mexico, so we are doing a fine job of funding teacher salaries. We don't need to get Utah teachers, or teachers from other states. Let them go and get better pay in other states. We have found a valuable resource in Mexico that doesn't complain and is quite happy with the incredible wages they are receiving for their quality work. This was the best solution that Governor Huntsman came up with to assist our Public education. And if we can quickly increase the number of bilingual teachers contracted from Mexico to teach, we will be able to educate our kids cheaper.

Utah Citizen | 6:56 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

jackhp, lost in dc,
check the grammar in your last 2 sentences. Throwing money down the public education rathole is not the answer.

Wow! | 7:32 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Utah citizen, what happened to you? Did you get in trouble with every teacher who ever taught you growing up? So very bitter...

lost in DC | 8:33 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

What's the matter Utah Citizen? Did the big bad word "denigrate" scare you? Maybe you couldn't understand the 36-word sentence because I left out an "and." Sorry if your concentration couldn't hold out that long. Maybe that's why you failed 4th grade punctuation.

SRD | 10:31 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Its funny that at the press conference that the governor and legislature held today that they stated that if the vouchers did not pass they would have to raise taxes in order to pay for the ewtimated 160,000 new students thatwill be enrolled in Utah schools over the next few years. Well here is $400 million dollars that they could use to help offset that cost. What's the first thing that the legisaltors say: "lets give a tax cut."

So which is it? Do we need to raise taxes or do we need to give a tax cut?

Teacher/Mom | 10:59 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

SRD, excellent comment. Ironically, it seems that we 'need' vouchers to ease the burden of the 160,000 new students that will enroll in our state's schools. The governor and legislators proclaim that private school vouchers will solve the problem. How stupid do they think we are?

Why don't we take the money that would have been used for vouchers, and invest it (along with some of the surplus)in public education? If the allotted funding for vouchers will "ease the burden" on public schools, why not get rid of the middle man and save public schools directly by funding them fully in the first place?

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