Deseret News | Reader comments: Nothing 'amiss' in Italian trip, senator says

Reader comments
Nothing 'amiss' in Italian trip, senator says

James | 6:47 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

So apparently when you get elected you are required by law to lose all of your friends.

This is an example of the power of the media. Friends of up to 30 years go on a trip and suddenly we get to read about it. And Bob Bernick takes the time to write a story of how nothing happened. The mere appearance of this story, no matter what they say insists that something evil happened.

This story is more than ridiculous.

Chuck L | 8:27 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Cost of the trip for the Brambles: $1,025. Cost of food for the Brambles: $1000. Cost of two weeks of unfettered access by lobbyists: Priceless.

KH | 9:21 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

I don't think the public expects legislators to loose all their friends, but when they seek and accept this responsibility of public trust, they do have to be mindfull of propriety and distance themselvs from lobbyists that will sooner or latter be lobying them for their support, it's just an obvious conflict of interest.

Whether the lobbyists paid for the trip isn't the issue to me. If he is such close friends with these lobbyists, his friendship will obviously someday add some pressure to not dissapoint his friends down the road.

Judges can't try cases for their friends, spend private time with members of the jury or layers trying cases in their court (even if they are friends) because it is a conflict of interest and may affect his judgement. How can the senator say his obviously close relationship with these lobbyists isn't an issue just because no money exchanged hands?

Comments continue below

James | 9:43 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Chuck L, if you went on the trip you would have the same access. And according to that logic, considering by State law anyone can be a lobbyist, the Brambles, Lockharts, etc should not speak with anyone? So if you are average Joe blow citizen and want increased funding for education and constantly talk about it for two weeks, how is that any different?

And as for this "article" not being an example of media abuse, why not bash on Rep Lockhart? Why is it only the Senate Majority Leader that had a problem? Rep Lockhart is the Vice Chair of House Appropriations. Did she not talk to anyone on the trip? So it was only Bramble that talked to Paul Rogers? And why not bash on the fact that Steve White, a Utah County Commissioner was also on the trip. Is it not conceivable that one of Paul Rogers clients had business in Utah County. But it was only Bramble that was in the wrong.

So long as Bob Bernick is going to write such obviously biased editorials, it deserves something far worse than print, actually bathroom material.

This was a Bramble hit piece, pure and simple.

Sam Adams | 10:07 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Mr. Bernick you should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to create news where there is none. I can see why you take this approach however, it gives you the opportunity to take pot shots at politicians and to capitalize upon an unlimited pool of issues that are NOT news but are fodder for you and the eager readers who want so badly to find something wrong with Utah politics.

IM | 11:11 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

This is such a non-story. I know ALL these couples and think it's silly that we beat them up for being friends with one another.

CaptainK | 11:41 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Actually, KH is right. Senator Bramble didn't have to take the trip. He could have decided to pass, and avoided the media issue altogether. James, and Sam Adams, I'm guessing work in Senator Bramble's office, or are family members. Any other tax paying citizen of this state will have issues with this.

slave | 11:43 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Lets see, Utah County Commission Chairman, Micron lobbyist turned Utah GOP chairman and Utah Senate Leader all together for two weeks of fun. Why should this be an issue? Every one in this state who voted for these jokers should be used to them being in bed together. How often do we hear about closed door meetings of the GOP to discuss how to add more entitlements to the Utah government Club? School Vouchers, non disclosure of campaign contributions by lobbyists and on and on. The sad part is that the appearance of impropriety has become so wide spread in our local governments that we will continue to allow this type of thing to continue by electing these jokers and thiefï¿½s. I wonder how many closed door meetings happened in Italy. Oh I forgot the wifeï¿½s were along.

Big D | 1:00 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

We learn in church to avoid the appearance of evil. Do they not teach that in Utah County? The Utah County republicans will destroy the party for the whole state. How did so many Utah County Republicans get power at the same time? The good old boy system has got to stop in this state.

Ryan | 1:10 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

CaptainK, I am another tax paying citizen, and am actually not a fan of Bramble at all. That being said, I have no problem with this trip.

KH, your comparison of Judges to politicians is pointless. Judges are required to remain impartial and politicans are of their very nature partial. Lobbying exists and is totally legal. Courts are a whole different animal should not be compared.

At the end of the day, lobbyists and politicans might become friends. I know that the Lockharts and the Brambles are very good friends, and it appears as though the Rogers are as well.

By some of your logic, you make it seem like Stan Lockhart (who is also the head of the Utah GOP by the way) should divorce his wife because she is a legislator and a memeber of House leadership.

I can't decide which is worse, the story or some of the comments.

jackhp | 1:20 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Man I HATE having to agree with all the conservatives in this thread (James and now Ryan.)

Yes, CaptainK, I'm a tax paying citizen of Utah and I'm a liberal, progressive Democrat. ;)

jackhp | 1:53 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

James,
Just so you know, I submitted a comment around 1pm agreeing with you, but the moderator has apparently deemed it necessary to censor it.

jackhp | 2:22 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

James and Ryan,
Would you have the same opinion of this story if Bramble were a progressive, liberal Democrat such as myself? What if it was SLC Mayor Rocky Anderson?

Ryan | 2:31 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Not at all. In fact, I think it is funny that I was labeled as a conservative when I voted for Matheson and Rocky (I have since decided that I dislike Rocky and it occurred when he began worrying more about national politics than SLC government).

jackhp | 2:42 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Why would this be different if it were Rocky? Or did you mean "not at all" as in "no difference at all"?

Sorry about "labeling" you. If you're the same Ryan who comments in the forum frequently then it just seemed to fit.

Alvin | 2:53 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Aren't these the same two legislators who apparently coerced a school official to use taxpayer money and students to construct a float for the Republican Party last summer? It looks like the party has two loose cannons who do just about anything they want. The party should have an investigation of their actions, but you know that will never happen in Utah.

jackhp | 3:00 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

I agree Alvin. But if there's nothing found, then the media shouldn't be publishing "when did you stop beating your wife" type stories.

jackhp | 3:15 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

This is exactly the same kind of treatment the D-news has given Rocky in the past. Frankly, I don't blame him for not talking to D-news reporters at one time.

If I were Bramble, I would have given Bernick a short respone such as, "My wife and I paid for our share of the trip expenses entirely out of our own pockets." By trying to show that he had forethought of the possible conflict of interest, it appears that he is trying to explain away a misdeed and makes the story juicier for Bernick. Bramble should have clammed up and told Bernick to buzz off.

James | 4:33 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Jackhp, to answer your question: especially if they were Democrats, even left wing liberals. By so doing it would show a consistent focus on the principle, not politics.

Bramble can be abbrasive so it earns him enemies. Bob Bernick is obviously bored and this article struck me that we have 6 people, all long time friends; 3 elected officials, 2 registered lobbyists but only one person did something wrong.

Could Bob be any more obvious?!

And Jackhp, I have had so many posts censored I was starting to take it personal. I am glad the moderator is only censuring the smart, thinking types. ;)

Ryan | 5:01 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Jackhp, I meant no difference at all, thanks for the clarification.

anti-crony | 5:26 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

when Rocky took a pr trip for slc, where'd were the apologists for the influence peddlers? Utah is ripe for corruption because of single party, religious, business dominance.
(GOP, LDS, ihc, WCf, etc)

justsayin | 5:52 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

Do your friends take you on lavish vacations in Tuscany and pay for everything? No one is suggesting the Lockharts sho should divorce or Bramble should give up his friends. Thatï¿½s not the point. The point is that this trip was a very extravagant gift from a wealthy lobbyist who can become even wealthier with Becky and Curtï¿½s help in the Legislature.

With all due respect, when will the people in Utah Valley wake up and see their elected officials are so drunk with arrogance of power and confidence that they can not be unseated, that they no longer represent the morals of their constituents.

justsayin | 6:01 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

My brother is a Bishop in Utah Valley. I know he would never accept a bribe from a member of his Ward. Whatï¿½s the difference? Itï¿½s time Utah Valley voters stop blindly blaming liberals for everything and take a look at their own. It was Bramble who blocked the animal cruelty law year after year. It was Cannon who voted against medical care for poor children. It was Bramble, Lockhart and almost every other Utah County Republican Legislator in who watered down the ï¿½hate crimesï¿½ law so much that we canï¿½t even properly prosecute someone who attacks our children for being Mormon, or defaces our LDS churches. Yet, then I see letters to the editor from Utah County complaining about those darn liberals who donï¿½t want to protect Mormons from hate crimes. Pay attention! The Democrats tried for 11 years to pass a law that would protect Mormons against hate crimes but Bramble blocked it because it would have also protected gays. The Republican Leadership would rather see those who attach us for being Mormon go un-punished than ï¿½officially recognizeï¿½ that gays also deserve protection. Those arenï¿½t the values people I know and respect in Utah Valley. Wake up!

Welcome to one-party govt | 10:58 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007

The real problem here is that, as Republicans in Provo, neither Sen. Bramble nor Rep. Lockhart will ever be held accountable for any of their tip-toeing along the line of impropriety. They both have what amount to lifetime sinecures since most of their constituents vote for Republicans regardless of their track records. And hence Bramble knows however much bad press he gets for accepting front-row Jazz tickets or taking exotic trips with lobbyists, it will never come back to haunt him at the polls. Such is life in a one-party district.

jpr | 5:29 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I'm stunned that many of the commenterï¿½s truly believe that something unethical was done when these FRIENDS of 30 years took a trip together. How did you put it "justsayin"...A bribe? I'm pretty sure to bribe someone you have to give them something. Read the article more closely, each couple paid their own expenses. But, Iï¿½m glad to hear that your bishop brother wouldn't take a bribe from a member of his ward. Didn't know that was a growing problem these days. However, this is clearly an example of someone trying to create an issue when none is present. Many of you bought on to this, and have used this to reinforce your own personal beliefs of conspiracy theories! I hate to pop your bubble, but I know everyone who went on this trip personally, and nothing even close to unethical activity occurred. Say what you will about some of their personalities, but when you accuse someone of misconduct at least have the decency to present evidence to that effect.

justssayin | 6:47 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I know them personally too and know full well from personal experience that Bramble is not a man to be trusted. He has looked me in the eyes with a smile, promised not to do something, and then turned around the very next day and did it in front of me and a bunch of cameras.

jpr | 11:19 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Okay "justssayin", that is one individual who was in attendance on this trip. The only way that a bribe could have taken place is for one of the other 7 individuals (one of whom was his wife) to have participated in that action. There is no evidence to back up claims of misconduct. Yet you are condemning one of the other travelers of what would be classified as a crime. In fact, all evidence points to this being nothing more than a trip with friends of only 30 years; where every couple paid their own expenses. So explain, who was it that bribed him? With what? And when? If there are no answers to these questions there is no evidence of misconduct, and no purpose of slandering the good names of the other travelers.

Please! | 11:51 a.m. Oct. 13, 2007

Some of these individuals I know and some I don't. One or two of the ones I know are not honorable people. This vacation among friends, however, is honorable. One wonders what the heck (sic) this silly reporter is reporting about. Slow news day?

Anti-Bernick | 6:29 p.m. Oct. 13, 2007

Each couple paid their own way. What is it that some of you don't understand about that?
As a member of the public who has sat in the same meeting rooms with Bernick, I've watched him for several years misreporting what happens. When I read the story, I wonder if I was in the same room!
Spin is a reporter's personality, but for a reporter to twist, distort and outright lie, is an absolute abuse of the First Amendment.
He has pure hatred for anyone in the GOP and anything conservative. Digging up nonexistent issues is his Motis Operandi. But remember, the D-News is just a culpable. Their motto: "When news is slow, make it up, make it dirty and it will sell! Create the smoke and convince the public that there is a fire."

Concerned citizen | 10:24 a.m. April 13, 2008

Now that we have nuclear waste coming here from Italy, this story takes on more possible meaning. Why did they choose Italy for their vacation together? Could it have anything to do with the nuclear waste?

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