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Heated voucher battle turns ugly with fear of the devil thrown in
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Not FromUtar | 11:37 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Our state is so aligned on every other conservative issue that comes across our
voting table. But how did so many of you become aligned with the liberals on
this issue, it baffles me to even think this might be shot down. I thought when
I moved to Utah from CA I would be entering a conservative state, but I guess I
was wrong. It looks as though I will need to head to Idaho where the people are
"TRUE" conservatives that aren't easily decieved by liberal
politicians and organizations!
ALREADY PAID for Choice | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Those attacking vouchers on this board with the argument that "parents
already have the choice to place their children in private schools" are
intentionally missing the point: Those parents have ALREADY PAID for an
education via taxation. Clearly, it would be unethical to require those same
parents to pay AGAIN simply because they choose a different route for their
children. Give them their money. They earned it, and they should be permitted
to do with it what they will. And by the way, the whole "Satan" and
"evil" thing is ridiculous. Both sides have good reasons to take the
stance they've chosen, and those reasons do NOT include the whisperings of
demons. Ridiculous.
Real Utahn | 11:44 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
think about it,
"We are uncomfortable with a national organization that advises teachers what they should be teaching."
NCLB is that sort of thing you are referring to right? We already have enough government interference in Public ed, why do we want to open the doors to government interference in our Private schools as well? That is exactly what Vouchers will do.
"We are uncomfortable with a national organization that advises teachers what they should be teaching."
NCLB is that sort of thing you are referring to right? We already have enough government interference in Public ed, why do we want to open the doors to government interference in our Private schools as well? That is exactly what Vouchers will do.
Comments continue below
BYUGrad | 11:45 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
The vast majority of people with children in private schools are wealthy. They
should not get a voucher. I am comfortable paying into an education system that
only benefits public education. The current system helps the underprivileged.
Vouchers really only help the rich and private business.
Voter Information | 11:46 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I just read the voter information pamphlet from the Lt. Governor. It has well
written information on both sides of the voucher issue. It's a place, away
from the hype and influence of Satan, where fair minded citizens can read and
make up their own minds.
Dennis Lisonbee
Dennis Lisonbee
hilarious! | 11:46 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Nobody who has been deceived by Satan wants to be told so.
Here are the facts:
The pro-voucher crowd has set up deceptive web sites.
The pro-voucher crowd has manipulated the numbers they present to the public so that they no longer represent the numbers presented by the state.
The pro-voucher crowd has a radio ad on the air right now that neglects mentioning that the "held harmless" money is revoked after five years, and that the eventual per year cost of the entitlement is 71 million per year in year 13.
That's deception. People who use deceptive practices and do harm have been, in my opinion, deceived by the father of deception.
Of COURSE they don't want to be told that they're deceptive. If they loved truth, they wouldn't have deceived in the first place.
Here are the facts:
The pro-voucher crowd has set up deceptive web sites.
The pro-voucher crowd has manipulated the numbers they present to the public so that they no longer represent the numbers presented by the state.
The pro-voucher crowd has a radio ad on the air right now that neglects mentioning that the "held harmless" money is revoked after five years, and that the eventual per year cost of the entitlement is 71 million per year in year 13.
That's deception. People who use deceptive practices and do harm have been, in my opinion, deceived by the father of deception.
Of COURSE they don't want to be told that they're deceptive. If they loved truth, they wouldn't have deceived in the first place.
Anonymous | 11:47 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
ALREADY PAID for Choice | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007,
It is unethical to be asking me, a taxpayer without any children, to pay for your Private religiously indoctrinated education. It is even against the State constitution.
My tax money should not be used to cater to your exclusive choice.
It is unethical to be asking me, a taxpayer without any children, to pay for your Private religiously indoctrinated education. It is even against the State constitution.
My tax money should not be used to cater to your exclusive choice.
Stupid | 11:53 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Stupid is as stupid does
BYUGrad | 11:55 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Not FromUtar,
Maybe some Utah conservatives are very conservative on social issues (abortion, etc.), but less "conservative" when it comes to taking money from public education because we care about teachers and ALL of the children in the state. Maybe we are still a little suspicious with entities that are too concerned about their bottom line (profit).
ALREADY PAID for Choice,
Obviously if you have sent your child to private school you have plenty of money. I don't feel sorry for you just like I don't feel sorry for Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Simple economics says people who are paying for private school now have already added the $2000 dollars into their cost.
Maybe some Utah conservatives are very conservative on social issues (abortion, etc.), but less "conservative" when it comes to taking money from public education because we care about teachers and ALL of the children in the state. Maybe we are still a little suspicious with entities that are too concerned about their bottom line (profit).
ALREADY PAID for Choice,
Obviously if you have sent your child to private school you have plenty of money. I don't feel sorry for you just like I don't feel sorry for Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Simple economics says people who are paying for private school now have already added the $2000 dollars into their cost.
Anonymous | 11:55 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Dear ALREADY PAID for
I don't have children and have never burdened the public education system. Get out your checkbook and pay ME back. That would be ethical!
I don't have children and have never burdened the public education system. Get out your checkbook and pay ME back. That would be ethical!
doug | 12:01 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Over the next 8 years 100,000 MORE students will be entering the schools. They
used to say "Class sizes are too big", so one solution was to help
REDUCE those class sizes by spreading some students into private schools - hence
the vouchers. If vouchers fail, there will STILL be 100,000 more students
coming. And what will the cry be then?
More money for government schools. But the dumbing down of American Schools is continuing via government schools. I don't want those same declining results for my children
BTW, there are good private schools that cost only $200 per month per child. Been there down that.
More money for government schools. But the dumbing down of American Schools is continuing via government schools. I don't want those same declining results for my children
BTW, there are good private schools that cost only $200 per month per child. Been there down that.
STAT | 12:03 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
ALREADY PAID for Choice,
You'd have an excellent point if there were a child tax rather than a child tax deduction. Under the current system, it is the people without kids who pay for the education of those with kids.
You should consider your tax deduction as a voucher that you can use to supplement the education of your kids.
You'd have an excellent point if there were a child tax rather than a child tax deduction. Under the current system, it is the people without kids who pay for the education of those with kids.
You should consider your tax deduction as a voucher that you can use to supplement the education of your kids.
plowboy | 12:06 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
The question that Deseret News asked was about the public school institution.
The question should really be: "Do you think the voucher program will help
or hurt Utah's children?"
Follow The Money | 12:12 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
OK
So the devil comment was admittedly way over the top.
Getting back down to reality.
It's pretty evident where the anti-voucher funding is coming from.
What about this "Parents For Choice" group? I am interested in knowing just where their funding is coming from. An internet search doesn't reveal much about that.
I have heard that most of it is from out of state. I have also heard something about the man who owns overstock. Does anyone know?
So the devil comment was admittedly way over the top.
Getting back down to reality.
It's pretty evident where the anti-voucher funding is coming from.
What about this "Parents For Choice" group? I am interested in knowing just where their funding is coming from. An internet search doesn't reveal much about that.
I have heard that most of it is from out of state. I have also heard something about the man who owns overstock. Does anyone know?
Anonymous | 12:21 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Because the state DOES NOT spend $7,500 per child per year.
The state kicks in around $4,500 per child for education only if that child is enrolled. If they aren't, the state does not allot any money for them. This is all based on October 1st, enrollment.
Where the 7,500 number comes from is the additional revenue from property taxes. The money doesn't go directly to salary or usually any other operations. It goes to paying off debt. ASD is around a half-billion dollars in bond debt so that schools can be built/renovated etc., but it was the taxpayers who voted for it.
Charter schools don't get that sort of money. They get about $2,500. I don't expect Charter schools to remain free public schools after Vouchers are approved, simply due to economics. We have enough Charters to convert to Private schools to meet the demand not being met by the supply of seats. This is a good thing really. We don't need to keep education free, and should have a open market for competition. Let the parents choose. Vote for Vouchers.
The state kicks in around $4,500 per child for education only if that child is enrolled. If they aren't, the state does not allot any money for them. This is all based on October 1st, enrollment.
Where the 7,500 number comes from is the additional revenue from property taxes. The money doesn't go directly to salary or usually any other operations. It goes to paying off debt. ASD is around a half-billion dollars in bond debt so that schools can be built/renovated etc., but it was the taxpayers who voted for it.
Charter schools don't get that sort of money. They get about $2,500. I don't expect Charter schools to remain free public schools after Vouchers are approved, simply due to economics. We have enough Charters to convert to Private schools to meet the demand not being met by the supply of seats. This is a good thing really. We don't need to keep education free, and should have a open market for competition. Let the parents choose. Vote for Vouchers.
Anonymous | 12:25 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Conservative values in Utah will always shoot down tax breaks for the rich. If
that makes us Liberal, we must be Liberal-Conservatives.
Anonymous | 12:26 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Does Satan send his children to the Public school system?
If he does, I will vote for Vouchers!!
If he does, I will vote for Vouchers!!
Re: Already Paid | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
You are missing the point. You may pay taxes but it is not for your child. That
is a narrow point of view. Taxes are collected to pay for society needs not your
needs. If you live on a private lane the city does not have to pave your road
even if you pay taxes for the roads.
Not a BYU Grad | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
BYU Grad Also | 11:35 a.m. Oct. 9, 2007
"Public schools are a government-run monopoly. Vouchers will introduce competition into the education system. Competition will benefit our children because it will force public schools to improve."
If you really are a "BYU Grad", somewhere along the line, you should have learned to back up ridiculous statements with FACTS!
"Public schools are a government-run monopoly. Vouchers will introduce competition into the education system. Competition will benefit our children because it will force public schools to improve."
If you really are a "BYU Grad", somewhere along the line, you should have learned to back up ridiculous statements with FACTS!
NCG | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Thank goodness, I made the sacrifice to send my children to Catholic School. I
am very greatful I avoided all the MS. Roses out there in public education. I
have visited some public schools, some seemed ok, but boy, were there a lot fat
school teachers there. Not good examples for our kids. They acted kind of
giddy too, like they couldn't believe someone was actually giving them a
paycheck. I liked those serious old nuns that taught my kids. And by the way,
the wealthy don't care and won't be affected. They will just move
their kids to more expensive, better schools if the vouchers pass and bring in a
lot of riff-raff not seriously into supporting the better education at home,
which is a vital part of the equation in the children who excell, no matter what
the school.
Back East, everyone I know send their children to private school. The public schools are more dangerous than prison.
Blessings and regards,
Back East, everyone I know send their children to private school. The public schools are more dangerous than prison.
Blessings and regards,
NotFromUtar | 12:43 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I didn't know BYU Grads were so Naive! Have you even read the bill? Thanks
for adding nothing to the conversation but stupid cliche one-liner comments that
you hear during television breaks.
I can sit hear for the next two hours trying to persuade you to hear the truth, but until you actually do your research first before coming to the conversation, there's no point.
Have fun at the Harry Reid speech!
I can sit hear for the next two hours trying to persuade you to hear the truth, but until you actually do your research first before coming to the conversation, there's no point.
Have fun at the Harry Reid speech!
To Already Paid For | 12:47 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I have four children in the public education system. When I pay taxes, those
taxes don't pay for MY children's education. That is the same with
every dollar paid into the education system. We pay for everyone to be
educated.
For example. For simplicity, say I pay $1000 in education taxes. Say there are 100,000 kids in the public education system. I am, in essence, paying $10 for every kid in the system (including my own). Thus, the $1000 I pay isn't going for my child - only $10 of it is. The remaining $990 dollars are going to pay for other kids in the system. That's the way our system is set up. Those with no children in the schools pay (they actually pay more than those with children) as well as those with children in the schools.
So, to say you've "already paid for your child's education" is a weak argument. You've actually paid into a pot that educates all of Utah's children.
For example. For simplicity, say I pay $1000 in education taxes. Say there are 100,000 kids in the public education system. I am, in essence, paying $10 for every kid in the system (including my own). Thus, the $1000 I pay isn't going for my child - only $10 of it is. The remaining $990 dollars are going to pay for other kids in the system. That's the way our system is set up. Those with no children in the schools pay (they actually pay more than those with children) as well as those with children in the schools.
So, to say you've "already paid for your child's education" is a weak argument. You've actually paid into a pot that educates all of Utah's children.
ron | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
lucifer, I don't know who you are but thanks for chiming in. You made my
day. You showed how simple this whole article and those responsible for p utting
their two cents worth in, really appear!!! that includes yours truly!!!
To BYU Grad also | 12:53 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
1. It is true that public schools are a government-run monopoly. The military is
also a government-run monopoly. Should we give vouchers to businesses who hire
mercenaries to do private "security" work?
2. Competition already exists in education.
3. Vouchers do not force public schools to improve, they could force some to fail.
4. For the most part, people don't put their kids in private school because public school is terrible. They put them in private schools for other reasons (status, social climbing, religion, etc.).
5. Statistics show that Utah's public schools are not failing. They are good.
6. Education is SO important that we cannot allow private business to take it over.
2. Competition already exists in education.
3. Vouchers do not force public schools to improve, they could force some to fail.
4. For the most part, people don't put their kids in private school because public school is terrible. They put them in private schools for other reasons (status, social climbing, religion, etc.).
5. Statistics show that Utah's public schools are not failing. They are good.
6. Education is SO important that we cannot allow private business to take it over.
Anonymous | 12:55 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
FACT: Public schools are in crisis. Throwing more and more money at them will
not solve the problem. The apathy of children, parents, and some in the public
educational system is overwhelming. NO amount of money will change that. If
parents want to improve public education, they should start with their own
children by teaching them honesty, respect, discipline, and hard work. You
cannot change the world in which you live unless you change the
"world" within you first. Parents should be able to provide their
children with the best opportunities in education, public or private.
Steve | 12:56 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
You can get any type of education you want out of public schools. To hear the
banter here, you would think that all students being regurgitated by our public
schools are nothing but imbiciles. This obviously is not true.
If you (the student) apply yourself there is much that can be learned. If we (parents) get involved in the education of our children, that will enforce the importance of an education.
As far as vouchers go, taxes are to be used for the "Public Good." Since an excellent education is available if you but search it out, why should the funds go for private education? It seems that supporters of vouchers feel that all that is necessary to obtain an education is to attend a private school. Sorry, but that ain't the answer. The answer is to get involved in your child's education. Set the example, continue to study and learn yourselves. Your children learn much more by what you do, as opposed to what you say to do. Let them see you read, study. Set the example. It will do miracles.
If you (the student) apply yourself there is much that can be learned. If we (parents) get involved in the education of our children, that will enforce the importance of an education.
As far as vouchers go, taxes are to be used for the "Public Good." Since an excellent education is available if you but search it out, why should the funds go for private education? It seems that supporters of vouchers feel that all that is necessary to obtain an education is to attend a private school. Sorry, but that ain't the answer. The answer is to get involved in your child's education. Set the example, continue to study and learn yourselves. Your children learn much more by what you do, as opposed to what you say to do. Let them see you read, study. Set the example. It will do miracles.
Answer to your question | 12:59 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
"I mean really...if we're going to have a voucher proposal, let's
have a real one. If the state spends $7500 per student per year...then why in
the world isn't the voucher for $7500? Just wondering... "
School facilities are used by other entities. City athletics, civic meetings, voting houses, etc. I am sure some number crunchers came up with good numbers.
School facilities are used by other entities. City athletics, civic meetings, voting houses, etc. I am sure some number crunchers came up with good numbers.
BYUGrad | 1:20 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Anonymous 12:25 p.m. is right on. I don't tend to support tax breaks for
the wealthiest people in our society, and I consider myself conservative.
Tew | 1:29 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
The history of compulsory public education (early 1850's in America)
suggests that it is based upon a Prussian socialistic premise. Who is the
author of socialism? Perhaps the author of other forms of compulsion is the
author of socialism. Read that which John Taylor Gallo has written about public
education.
Taxes | 1:52 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Most of the comments here are done probably by UEA leadership paid by our tax
dollars. This is the best keep secret of the UEA machinery, the districts pay
for their salaries when they get elected so they can do the union work. They are
doing a great job today!
Linda | 2:03 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Basically, if you want to send your children to private school, that is your
choice to do with the money that you have. Mine, is to send my children to
public school and then we can spend the extra money on going on vacations
together as a family or just buying an ice cream cone and playing ball in the
park. I wish the State PTA had more money to show you what the vouchers really
entail so you could vote against it too. As for Satan, leave my older brother
out of this, he's the black sheep anyway!!
Steven Jarvis | 2:04 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
"FACT: schools are in crisis"
I agree with that statement's beginning. The Crisis began when we started cutting funds to education. We are underfunding the system so badly our schools do not have the funds to keep curriculum current. We should not divert more finds away from Public ed, but instead find ways to bring education funding up to sustainable levels.
I agree with that statement's beginning. The Crisis began when we started cutting funds to education. We are underfunding the system so badly our schools do not have the funds to keep curriculum current. We should not divert more finds away from Public ed, but instead find ways to bring education funding up to sustainable levels.
BioHaz | 2:21 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
"FACT: Public schools are in crisis"
What a joke! Despite what the Limbaughs and Hannity types say and pass of as facts; there are very few Utah schools "in crisis". Just because some schools across the country are, does not give you the right to classify all schools in the same category. The overwelming majority of Utah schools are doing very excellent work! Please enter your nearest one and find out for yourself rather than just spouting off garbage on a worthless and nameless blog. If you want to back up your little "fact" with something other than your word, please do so. Sound bites and one-liners do nothing to support your cause.
What a joke! Despite what the Limbaughs and Hannity types say and pass of as facts; there are very few Utah schools "in crisis". Just because some schools across the country are, does not give you the right to classify all schools in the same category. The overwelming majority of Utah schools are doing very excellent work! Please enter your nearest one and find out for yourself rather than just spouting off garbage on a worthless and nameless blog. If you want to back up your little "fact" with something other than your word, please do so. Sound bites and one-liners do nothing to support your cause.
Here goes the press | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Come on, why report what one citizen writes in her private email. The fact is
that vouchers are not good for the schools or for the population as a whole. It
doesn't matter if Rocky Anderson (did I say satan) is against them, they
are still wrong.
I'm Rich | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
My parents were both public school teachers, and my sister is a past NEA state
representative. My children go to public schools. Ready for an anti-voucher
post? WRONG - WE SUPPORT VOUCHERS! Why?
We thoroughly researched the economics, and understand the benefits to the public schools. The definition of insanity is to continue doing things the same way and expect different results. We continue to have large families in Utah supported by one wage earner. Since our demographics won't likely change, what's the best option left? If I can move a child out of public school for less than the $7,000 I get from the state, it makes economic sense, assuming the parents of that child prefer a different educational setting for him/her. Most parents (even lower socio-economic demographics) are very interested in their child's education. Trust them to choose the best options!
We thoroughly researched the economics, and understand the benefits to the public schools. The definition of insanity is to continue doing things the same way and expect different results. We continue to have large families in Utah supported by one wage earner. Since our demographics won't likely change, what's the best option left? If I can move a child out of public school for less than the $7,000 I get from the state, it makes economic sense, assuming the parents of that child prefer a different educational setting for him/her. Most parents (even lower socio-economic demographics) are very interested in their child's education. Trust them to choose the best options!
Steven Jarvis | 3:01 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I'm Rich,
The economics of Vouchers don't accomplish what you just claimed. Moving that child out of the Public system does not leave behind money at his or her school. It is not 7K either. You are adding in fixed costs like Bonds, property upkeep etc. to try to persuade your point of view which come from local property tax.
The reality is if we move enough kids in certain areas out of the public schools, we will end up closing a few Public ones before they should be. The second reality is we will see Public school buildings converted to Private ones. With Vouchers we are taking people's choice and limiting it further if they cannot afford the difference between the Voucher and tuition.
The economics of Vouchers don't accomplish what you just claimed. Moving that child out of the Public system does not leave behind money at his or her school. It is not 7K either. You are adding in fixed costs like Bonds, property upkeep etc. to try to persuade your point of view which come from local property tax.
The reality is if we move enough kids in certain areas out of the public schools, we will end up closing a few Public ones before they should be. The second reality is we will see Public school buildings converted to Private ones. With Vouchers we are taking people's choice and limiting it further if they cannot afford the difference between the Voucher and tuition.
Anonymous | 3:12 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Voucher supporters would like to think that most of the comments are coming from
UEA staff members. I, for one, am not affiliated with the UEA, NEA, any other
union, or interested entity. I do have a child in public school.
I wonder if Tew (above) would characterize the United Order or the law of consecration as "Prussian Socialism?" Give Utahns a little more credit. I hope most people can see through this rhetoric.
Just because conservatives in other states have supported vouchers does not make vouchers right for our state. Our legislature is all too eager to adopt pet national conservative causes without really considering the best interest of our state. National interests don't know what is best for us, WE DO. Even Governor Huntsman realized that more money needed to be allocated for education. He held out for our children against the ultra-right legislature.
Public education in Utah is not broken. There are issues that need to be addressed, but diverting funds to private business is not the answer.
I wonder if Tew (above) would characterize the United Order or the law of consecration as "Prussian Socialism?" Give Utahns a little more credit. I hope most people can see through this rhetoric.
Just because conservatives in other states have supported vouchers does not make vouchers right for our state. Our legislature is all too eager to adopt pet national conservative causes without really considering the best interest of our state. National interests don't know what is best for us, WE DO. Even Governor Huntsman realized that more money needed to be allocated for education. He held out for our children against the ultra-right legislature.
Public education in Utah is not broken. There are issues that need to be addressed, but diverting funds to private business is not the answer.
BYUGrad | 3:24 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
If vouchers pass, the state legislature will cut education funding because
families will have agreed to bear more of the cost personally.
I want my money to help my kids and other needy kids, not the rich minority in private schools.
Private schools are businesses pure and simple. They want revenue. This economic motivation, for the most part, does not belong in education.
I want my money to help my kids and other needy kids, not the rich minority in private schools.
Private schools are businesses pure and simple. They want revenue. This economic motivation, for the most part, does not belong in education.
irish rose | 4:06 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
The satan thing is the most absurd thing I've heard of. Stupid is more the
word.
If parents can afford to send their kids to private school, let them pay for it. Why should the tax payers pay for them.
Let's use our tax money for the kids in the public school. Heaven knows the kids need it more than a private school
If parents can afford to send their kids to private school, let them pay for it. Why should the tax payers pay for them.
Let's use our tax money for the kids in the public school. Heaven knows the kids need it more than a private school
Satan's too busy | 4:25 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
being Vice President of the United States to worry about school vouchers in
Utah.
Atheist | 4:50 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Calling the anti-coucher crowd "inspired by the devil" is just
unprofessional and juvenile. This is exactly why standards need to be enforced
in our schools so that children can learn to grow up and not be warped by these
fanatic religious ideas. Vote against vouchers and keep religion out of our
schools!
tongue in Cheek | 5:04 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
"I want the best secular education for my kids---that is why I send them to
Catholic school."
Disappointed | 5:39 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I'm very disappointed in the Deseret News for printing this information, is
it really news worthy? This information came from a private email that was
meant to go to a select few that an individual managed to intervene and then
take it to the press. I'm sure he did that to make Ronda Rose and the PTA
look bad. This was truely an invasion of privacy and then to go the press with
it is unbelievable!
The pro voucher groups are talking about the funding from the NEA and not wanting special interest national organizations involved in Utah's decisions, I wonder who is "calling the kettle black"? Where do you think alot of the money that Parents for Choice have for commercials, flyers etc. came from? The Walton Family (WALMART), Amyway, Overstock.com (Special Interests) and private investors.
Over ninety percent of Utah's children attend public schools. The voucher will help a small minority and hurt a large majority. There is no accountability for our tax dollars going to private schools. Parents already have a choice in sending their children to different schools. Permits to other public schools and Carson Smith voucher for special needs children. Vote against Referendum #1!
The pro voucher groups are talking about the funding from the NEA and not wanting special interest national organizations involved in Utah's decisions, I wonder who is "calling the kettle black"? Where do you think alot of the money that Parents for Choice have for commercials, flyers etc. came from? The Walton Family (WALMART), Amyway, Overstock.com (Special Interests) and private investors.
Over ninety percent of Utah's children attend public schools. The voucher will help a small minority and hurt a large majority. There is no accountability for our tax dollars going to private schools. Parents already have a choice in sending their children to different schools. Permits to other public schools and Carson Smith voucher for special needs children. Vote against Referendum #1!
Anonymous | 6:16 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Will Walmart be setting up these needed Private schools? Will they also have
discounts and slashed rates for classes?
Truth | 6:44 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
During this debate, many people claim that they "don't want taxpayer
money gong to private groups."
Have these same people ever driven on a freeway or highway in Utah - or anywhere else, for that matter? That's a PRIME example of taxpayer money being spent through private companies who all bid for and contract for the construction of roads.
Afterall, the money allocated by the legislature for Vouchers came at the expense of other projects, such as roads - not the universal education fund, which has exploded in funding during Huntsman's term.
Where's the beef?
Have these same people ever driven on a freeway or highway in Utah - or anywhere else, for that matter? That's a PRIME example of taxpayer money being spent through private companies who all bid for and contract for the construction of roads.
Afterall, the money allocated by the legislature for Vouchers came at the expense of other projects, such as roads - not the universal education fund, which has exploded in funding during Huntsman's term.
Where's the beef?
Call Me Satan | 7:00 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I'm absolutley positive satan could do a better job of teaching than the
U.E.A.
I'll cast my vote for beelzebub over any public school teacher or official anytime.
I'll cast my vote for beelzebub over any public school teacher or official anytime.
Blinded by the Light | 8:20 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Backed by Satan or backed by the NEA. Take yer pick! What about the real
issues? Public money for private education, fiscal accountability, teacher
accountability, student accountability...
How about legislative accountability? Let's make a law that says no legislator can make money off of private or charter schools... ever.
How about legislative accountability? Let's make a law that says no legislator can make money off of private or charter schools... ever.
NVCoug | 8:50 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
I am a teacher. I would love to see vouchers. Why? Because in private schools
there is accountability. Students in our schools aren't held accountable
for anything anymore. Hold the teachers accountable? For what? Not being able
to keep administration from forcing them to pass kids because they don't
want mommy and daddy complaining? At least in private schools, you can kick
people out for not performing. You can kick them out for behavior problems. In
public schools, only the severe problems get "kicked out," and then it
is only for a month or two while they go to "opportunity" school.
Then they are right back in class disrupting the education of others.
You want to fix public education? Stop teaching on age level and let us teach on skill level. That will solve a lot of problems. Education used to valued. Why? Not everybody had it.
You want to fix public education? Stop teaching on age level and let us teach on skill level. That will solve a lot of problems. Education used to valued. Why? Not everybody had it.
NEA Doesn't Fear Voucher Failure | 9:28 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
Are you afraid vouchers will fail? The NEA is not, infact they are so petrified
that they will be successful, they are investing millions in ad campaigns trying
to convince parents that a vote for vouchers is a vote against kids. God forbid
anyone discover that a vote for vouchers is actually just a vote against the
NEA.
Blinded by the Light | 9:30 p.m. Oct. 9, 2007
NVCoug - you must work in a different school than the one my kids go to. I get
your notion about public school trying to be everything to everybody. Maybe we
shouldn't expect that. Back to the real issues though... let's have
accountability from everybody (parents, students, teachers, LEGISLATORS, and
anybody who plans on making a privatized buck out of the public coffers.
Your comments about accountability in private schools need refinement before they'll make much sense, let alone hold water.
Your comments about accountability in private schools need refinement before they'll make much sense, let alone hold water.
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