Deseret News | A Christian queston: LDS seek to define faith on their own terms

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News analysis: A Christian queston: LDS seek to define faith on their own terms

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Sick and Tired | 1:02 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I really don't have a problem with the Evangelical community calling the LDS Church a cult. I'm a Mormon, and a proud one, and I think that great damage is done when we try to project ourselves as mainstream protestants. I simply don't care what others think of us. And when I say "us" - I realize that I speak only for myself.

I also find it shallow of the Deseret News to link any news with Mormonism to Mitt Romney, and any news of Mitt Romney to Mormonism. Mitt Romney isn't a General Authority, and does not speak for the Church. Mitt Romney is a New England Liberal, and speaks for New England Liberals.

Sam Hofer | 1:08 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

The terms being defined seem to be 'absolute mainstream'. More baptist than baptist, more evangelical than that crowd. No more references to other planets or another testament. Strictly Jesus and the bible, strictly churchy looking belfries on the buildings. JESUS CHRIST is in big font on the new buildings.
That's where the political power is today.
What happened to the past?

bookaholic | 2:40 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I'm glad the Church is being proactive about the claims that we are not Christian. I appreciate it. It's so undeserved, so unjust. I was Methodist, then Lutheran as a youth. My feelings about the Savior didn't change when I became LDS 35 years ago, they just deepened. I became more devoted to Him and to loving others. My faith in Heavenly Father and Jesus just increased.

That important point stated, on to something less so... Wow! Jimmy Carter still had his marbles ten years ago. I'm impressed! His comment in this article is the first of his I can remember in a LONG time that I agreed with. I can't believe he said it--but I'm glad, nonetheless.

Carter has really, totally LOST his mind in recent years (or should I say decades?). He's become a complete, anti-semitic, anti-American blowhard. I have little respect for the man anymore, and his common sense is nonexistent.

He's done some good with popularizing Habitat for Humanity, and that's commendable, but these days he's WAY off the reservation intellectually. He's offensive and pathetic. He should go back to Georgia and do some gardening instead of stirring up strife and creating resentment towards the USA.

Comments continue below

Go Mitt | 3:37 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

"Sick and Tired", If you do more research, you will find that Mitt is very conservative.

Michael Beesley | 3:59 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

These constant inquiries as to whether Mormons are Christians, in my opinion, come from ignorant people who choose to be ignorant. If they were genuinely interested they would do what others have done and read up on the Church's doctrine - from an official Church source. They would subsequently discover that the very foundation of that doctrine is based on the life and teachings of JESUS CHRIST. A simple and easy to understand explanation is readily available to anyone who sincerely wants to know.

jimmy carter, ect | 4:20 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I think its interesting that the people accepting of Mormons in public office are the liberals (why harry reid is in such a high position... would the GOP ever put Orrin in such a high position? No!). President Carter is was even a Baptist sunday school teacher. Don't you get offended that so many people in your party disrespect your religion? I would, and do, when that happends. Its good to be a Democrat.

Its Not a Religion | 4:43 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

How is it a religion when only until it was politically correct did it allow African Americans as equals to join. That is not until the IRS threatened the church of tax exempt status.

Concerned | 5:29 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

What have we lost by seeking to be accepted of vthe world? Perhaps too much. It reads in James 4:4:

"know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

I fear that our attempt to come out of obscurity will result in condemnation by our God.

Carlos | 6:12 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Oy veh! This tired old subject again. Why are people so worried about what the LDS church teaches? And why are the Baptists so set upon being the religious proctors to make sure people pass their test? I am sure that God is displeased with the dissension.

Doug Brockbank | 6:13 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

As a practicing member of the Church, I welcome news that Church leaders are becoming more proactive in making themselves accessible. Polls show that 35-45% of Americans would not vote for a Mormon for President. Why? Are they uncomfortable with our doctrine, beliefs and practices? Probably not as much as they are with their perceptions of what these doctrines, beliefs and practices are. In other words, we have a long way to build "public relations" with others. We are much better to define ourselves, or others will define us for us. Ask any Mormon if they wonder if they are Christian, or belong to a cult. They would find such an inquiry insulting and puzzling. But we shouldn't be completely suprised either. We are taught to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ, believe in the Bible and another testament of Jesus Christ (the Book of Mormon). We are taught over the pulpit and in General Conference. But peoples perceptions are formed in the public eye as well. And if Church leaders and members are more accessible - and proactive - in affirming our beliefs, then others will see us more how we see ourselves.

Lynn H. | 6:16 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I love it! Thank you!

Momon in the Bible Belt | 6:22 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

That is the only game the SBC knows how to play: defining Christianity buy there terms and function. For the SBC Christianity is Evangelical and narrowly defined in an attemp to create an authenticity that is not there. Without defining Christian Faith in evangelical terms they would be not be any different than any other off-shoot of the Catholic Church.

Lavonda | 6:50 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I was raised Pentecostal and am now proud to say that I am LDS. I can see the differences in the two churches. Other churches are forever changing their views on certain topics, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, has been unwavering in these topics. Our leaders don't get paid to be leaders in the LDS church, while leaders in other churches do. Jesus wasn't paid to preach the Gospel, why should anyone else be? The LDS church is consistent, while others are not. People need to remember "The Church is Perfect" while not all members are not.

Richard Bowman | 6:50 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I am very upset to hear that Senator Reid is to speak at a BYU Devotional. His conduct and speech over the last few months has been anything but exemplary of the highest standards of public service. Because of his questionable leadership of the Senate at this time, politics as a whole has taken a mean and disrespectful tone to fellow colleagues and to the President of the United States. I think a better example could be chosen to speak in front of the students of BYU rather than the obvious hypocrite that Harry Reid portrays to us over the media every day.

One Vote | 7:12 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

It is a bit unnerving that in 2007 we would be having this controversy. One of Mitt's opponents is a Protestant MINISTER and no one bats an eye about his fitness for office or his ability to govern fairly.
Mitt's problem is that he continues to run with the pack, albeit due to his own money.
The media dislikes conservatives ... and the LDS Church represents solid, traditional values.
It's just target practice but the people who would normally expose such nonsense are the ones taking shots at Mitt and the church.

Jamie-Wichita KS | 7:47 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Being a Christian means " Christ like". If we are not that then what are we? We believe in Christ, in the ressurrection, and in the Second Coming. We believe in the Bible. The Book of Mormon testifies of the Bible and vice versa. The oposition doesn't come from the CORE beliefs, it comes from nit picking the finer points. Once you understand the basics, then you will understand the finer points.

Why | 7:57 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Why cant we all just get along.

You know... If I don't like Pickles, I don't go around bashing "Pickle lovers". Why would I even care if other people like pickles. Why would I even care if the pickle lovers went around getting others to love pickles too?

I guess my point is... If you have a problem with what a church believes in, then keep it to yourself. If the LDS church teaches people to ask God if the Church is true or not, then let GOD tell people if they should join or not. I think God would be a good judge of religious matters.

And LDS are not Protestant. The very definition of that term, means that a Church came out of another Church because of some thing they did not agree on (or Protested).... The LDS believe they are "restored", or that God thru a Prophet brought the truth back to the earth. So... by definition they can not be "Protesting" anything.

Doug Brockbank | 8:02 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

As members of the Church, we may be somewhat skeptical of polls that show that 35-45% of voters would not vote for a Mormon president. Are they uncomfortable with our doctrine, belief or practices? Or do they really know enough about the Church where our religion would factor into their decision? Ask a member of the LDS Church if they are Christian or belong to a cult, and you will likely find us bewildered by the very question. We are taught to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the New Testament, and we believe in the Book of Mormon - another Testament of Jesus Christ. We teach each other these doctrines over the pulpit in Church, in our seminaries, institutes and conferences. But many people's perceptions come from what they read in the paper, see on the Internet, or hear from others. As Church leaders and members speak more openly and frequently to others outside of our faith, we will find they understand us better. Then it will be their choice -and not ours - if they accept us or not.

Mark | 8:06 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I'm tire of so-called Christian churces (most are relative newcomers to the Christian world) defining who is a Christian and who is not.

Other Hand | 8:26 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Nobody covered our forum, where we discussed are evangelicals really a cult. Man, this fairness doctrine is unfair. Who cares what other people label others.

LDS Democrat | 8:26 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

BYU (and the Church by extension) are actually acknowleging Senator Reid? Incredible. Up until now he's been treaty as nothing less than a pariah by practically every member of the church that I know. People make such a big deal deal about the position he took with the gay marriage bill. This bill spoke more of politics than any real moral issue. Personally, I find it much more morally defective to wage a war (where people are obviously going to be killed) based on bogus intelligence, and then make a totally incompetent post-war plan (where even more people are killed). Anyway, as we like to say here in Vegas: "give em' hell Harry!"

Jed | 8:32 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I read a study where Evangelicals were much more likely to be disliked than Mormons. They are certainly not known for being scientific about their name calling.

In many ways, including growth and doctrinal clarity, Mormons are the leaders of the Christian movement, and I see comments by some Evangelicals as designed to derail that position. I agree completely with the Pharisee comparison.

What other Christian faith is there that with clarity and conviction teaches where we came from, where we are going, and exactly what Christ taught we should do and be to get there? How many churches today can claim a direct link to divine revelation or authority, other than what little is printed in the Bible?

On the other hand, neither Jesus nor the early Christian church were without similar criticisms. Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered on more than one occasion, jailed over 30 times on false charges (he was released each time), and finally murdered, and why? Because he was unsatisfied with the answers of the common crowd and was willing to ask God about the most basic questions of life, and God gave him an answer.

Las Vegan | 8:42 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Harry Reid is a great example of how an active LDS can successfully oppose much of the nonsense in the Church and still remain in good standing. Good job Harry! I would love to come up to Provo to hear you speak!

Anonymous | 8:54 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Perhaps Evangelicals today define themselves by who they are not (Mormons), because it would be irrevocably damaging to define themselves based on who they are. At least they still believe in Christ, but Mormons go a step further--they believe Christ.

Travis | 8:55 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

In response to the argument that the Church is trying to somehow reinvent itself as a mainstream Protestant denomination, I would point out that: 1) The Church has included prominent sections on how it differs from Protestantism in its new media materials alongside sections explaining what we have in common. 2) If you're skeptical that Jesus Christ and His role as Savior has always been our central belief, read the Book of Mormon--published even before the Church was organized. Unfortunately, there are those who always want to focus on the sensational, and because of them it becomes necessary for us to stand up for our core Christianity. Then they accuse us of trying to reinvent ourselves.

Kitenoa | 8:59 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Quick pointer: When sincerely searching to understand the basic beliefs of the LDS Church, perhaps these folks can start with the official name of the organizaion and ask why?

SLC Chip | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

You wrote, "urging members to vote for the candidate of their choice". I think the usage "his or her choice" would be more appropriate since the antecedent of "the LDS Church" would violate the separation of church and state.

Embarrassed | 9:11 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I think Harry Reid is an embarassment to the LDS faith

Shelly | 9:17 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Sick and Tired, your self-absorbed arrogance is exactly what people are concerned about. The LDS people and scholars shut down discourse by insisting that everything be done on their terms. And the LDS "faithful" just dismisses out of hand everyone who disagrees with their prophet. There is no real dialogue or openness to "outsiders."

Ron from O.C. | 9:24 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Those who really hate the L.D.S. Church are not likely to vote anyway. Those who are on the fence or ambilivalent will likely lean Romney. Those who are non-L.D.S. and have no ill will will likely (2/3's) go Romney. Now, I am only speaking of registered Republicans. In my office which is naturally conservative, I am received very well and often the butt of a lot of Mormon jokes which I find rather amusing and good natured teaching moments. They are 90% Republicans and if it came down to Hillary the Witch and Mitt, it's not a contest. But, Romney has to win the nomination and that's a bigger challenge than facing Hillary head on.

Rebuttal | 9:42 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

To One Vote:
You continue to play the "poor Mormons" card - a real persecution complex, as if only Mormons are attacked for their religious beliefs. Wake up. Many politicians are attacked/challenged for their religious affiliation. It may be a bigger deal with Mitt because of the Mormon obedience to their profit/prophet, but that is understandable.

Bubba Luv | 10:03 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Hey bookaholic: Jimmy Carter is far from the individual you paint with your narrow-minded, biased brush strokes. Why don't you check yourself at the keyboard before spouting off such idiotic comments. You're probably a Bushie. Carter is the one president from recent memory who is an actual humanitarian that gives a damn about his fellow man, and one who doesn't have special interests in oil, power, greed, Hallibuton, etc.
I normally don't bother reading DNews reader comments (the Trib is more my style). That's not to say I'm some stinkin' liberal left-winger either.
And Richard Bowman...dude....give me a break with the anti-Harry Reid diatribe - what's your deal? Because he's a Democrat from Sin City? Reid at least isn't afraid to try and call Bush on the carpet on the myriad of special-interest group political decisions he's made since 2000 (dad gum...it's been a long time since the hanging Chad fiasco in Florida).
I think Jimmy Carter is a fine human being - Habitat for Humanity is proof of that.

l | 10:04 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Richard, what's wrong with Harry Reid speaking at BYU? Why in the world is letting someone come talk to you ever wrong? Why was it wrong for Michael Moore to speak at UVSC? What's so bad when Sean Hannity comes to town? You guys freaked out when Dick Cheney came to BYU. Either listen or don't. Perhaps if you don't agree with some of the things Reid has done or said lately, that's all the more reason you should go listen to him and see if perhaps he provides some insight into what he has been doing or thinking.

Harry, you're welcome to return to your alma mater Utah State University and talk to us anytime you'd like.

We've had several baptist preachers walking around the USU campus condemning the Mormons. When we try to actually talk to them, they refuse to answer questions directly and continue on in their hate speech. That's fine-they want to talk, but they don't want to listen. So we ignore them now. It's too bad they are not willing to sit and listen to what we have to say after we hear their ranting. Don't be unwilling to at least listen.

Getting old | 10:06 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Isn't this topic getting old? Boring day in the news!

Bubba Luv | 10:08 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Hey Embarrassed...I'd be embarrassed if I were YOU. Harry Reid is NOT an embarrassment to the LDS faith...stop thinking you represent the masses. Just keep punching your Republican ticket based on the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage platform. Such narrow mindedness! Tell me you support GW Bush...I dare you.

San Diego | 10:15 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

The Book of Job is sometimes called "God's Declaration of Independence" because a faithful person does not automatically receive humane treatment. Harry Reid is an "LDS Declaration of Independence" and we should honor him for that. He has demonstrated that an LDS politician is not dictated to by the LDS Church. There is room in the Church for differences of opinion. Rather radical changes in LDS doctrine over the years demonstrates that no one should become too radically married to any of the doctrines of the Church -- they may change!

LDS Republican | 11:25 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Frankly, having Harry Reid speak at BYU would be an enlightening event. Personally, I get tired of the equating membership in the church with being sheep or lemmings. Most members of the church agree on the critical doctrines of the Church, hopefully because they have studied them in coming to their belief. The ability to think for ourselves is a critical aspect of church membership. Unfortunately not everyone exercises that ability. Those who do can have very different opinions about the same subject. But contrary to normal perception differences of opinion do not necessarily equate to differences in faithfulness to doctrines. I think it would be good to give Sen. Reid a platform to explain why he has come to his positions. Perhaps we might find the differences aren't as drastic as we perceive.

Sam Andersen | 11:36 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I feel, as a member of the Church, that any press for our religion is good press. Any time when we can be in the spotlight for any reason it sparks peoples intrest and may promote someone to learn more.

extrafeetmom | 11:40 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Hey Bubba Luv........
The LDS churc IS against abortion.
And Gay Marriage........
Not that we don't have democrats who are LDS. I know many........but they don't have to agree with everything in the Dem party...I am a GOP, and I don't always agree wih everything Bush does.....
I don't think I am narrow minded. Nor do I think the church is..........we are trying to save the American family values....Not killing babies and having same sex marraige. And I know gays.....related to some..
I support GW Bush though..........
Now tell me YOUR party will get us out of the war.......LOL.......not a chance in heck.

Mormon in a Blue State | 11:57 a.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I don't know how ANYONE has the right to decide who is and isn't a Christian. Living outside of Utah for the past 20 years, I have met good people from all walks of life. If someone professes to be a Christian, I give them the benefit of the doubt. If someone attacks my beliefs (as often happens outside of Utah), I tell that person I'm not willing to discuss religion with them in that context and it's the end of the conversation. In a couple of cases, I've disassociated myself with "friends" who had no other interest than to tear down my religion and shove their recently found "faith" (after a life of indulgences) down my throat.

Racist | 12:19 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I love how Mormons are critisized for being racist. I grew up a baptists in the south and I never, mark my words never, went to a Black baptists church or had a Black individual attend my church, my mother still attends the same first baptist church that has not integrated. It's like that all over the south but than again Mormons are the rascist ones. I love that arguement.

Light, Salt and Leaven | 12:21 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I appreciate Carrie Moore's article outlining the evolution of the Church's media practices. I think she does a nice job of both showing how the Church is responding to its context--the 21st century world--and she provides links for more, accurate info. I'm glad our message is getting out beyond the missionary program. That's a vital voice, but Church authorities and public relations professionals can augment the one-on-one contact missionaries provide with a broader (and often more articulate) message. Yes, the "Are Mormons Christians?" question is a tired one for many of us within the Church, but it's a real question for many outside the Church (where I was 25 years ago), the answer to which is a great launching point to explain the restored gospel's other messages. My hope is that many more media professionals will seek out and report on the Church's teachings--doctrinal and political--and that we members will augment their reporting with our personal testimonies.

utah jazz fan | 12:36 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I just think that it is interesting that a meeting has to be held in order to agree on what to agree on. Especially if it is believed that the Holy Bible (NIV, NLT, King James or what have you), IS the Word of God.

Christians follow Christ, and no one else..

Obvious | 12:47 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

It's easy to identify religious Christians. Religious christians are kind, polite, honest, hardworking, ethical, and charitable. "Religious" non-christians don't exemplify the aforementioned attributes. Those who are tolerant and kind are living as Christ taught. Those who are negative, hateful, and unwilling to forgive aren't following Christ. Christ said, "He that sayeth he know Me but doeth not my will, is a liar."

Sam Hofer | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

To all those I have offended with my very anti-Mormon posts, I am very sorry. I was once a member of the church until I got offended and I am now quite disaffected from the church. Recently I have spent a lot of time writing comments to discredit the church on any topic I can. For this, I am extremely sorry. I have realized that I need to get on with my life instead of trying to tear down others. Please forgive me. And concerning the article, I think it was well written and that the Church does need to go on the offense instead of playing defense. Thank you.

Craig | 1:53 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Lets remember that members of the LDS church are called SAINTS. On that question there is no debate. If someone wants to deny me the label of "christian" because of samantics and dogmatic bigotry so be it. Id rather be a SAINT.

Steven Smith | 1:56 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I think it's good that the church is taking a more offensive stance on this issue. I like that the church is trying to educate not fight with people about the church. People are going to think how they want to about the church no matter what. I think taking a non-combative stance is a great way to help people to understand us.

Henry Drummond | 1:56 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I think it is simply outrageous that one church would have the audacity to claim that another church isn't Christian. Why that would be like one church telling all the other churches that they are not the "true" church and are not recognized by God.

I find it extremely ironic that so many LDS people express such outrage over something that they do themselves. While Mormons have every right to go door to door sharing such a belief, I don't think they realize how negatively such proselyting is received by Evangelicals who love their church every bit as much as Mormon's love theirs.

There is more that binds Mormons and Evangelicals together than holds them apart. I hope LDS Church members and their Media representatives can emphasize that fellowship of faith in responding to questions rather than railing against Christian Evangelicals for doing the very same thing they do in Evangelical dominated communities every day.

Mimi7776 | 1:59 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

To Sam Hofer: God Bless you.

Born again | 2:16 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Jesus Himself tells us in His Word (The Bible) Unless one is born again he is not a christian. There are billions of people in the world who have been born again, including me. I was raised a mormon, babtized at 8 and never knew Jesus. When I was 28 I was babtizsed by the Holy Spirit of God, and met Jesus in a very real and personal way. Now I only follow Jesus and the Bible. I don't follow any religion that goes against the Bible. God showed me Jesus was not my brother or satan's spirit brother. He showed me He is God. I worship Him and Him alone. My life was radically transformed in every way. The mormon church is not Christian, but I know there are individuals within the LDS church who have been born again. They are born into the familey of God and adopted by the blood of Jesus Christ, and be considered Christians. Unless you are born again none of this makes sense because the enemy (the god of this world) blinds the eyes of people. Read the Bible and find out for yourself. Pray and sk for God to help you understand.

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