Deseret News | Abuse lawsuit alleges widespread problems with Mormons, Boy Scouts

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Abuse lawsuit alleges widespread problems with Mormons, Boy Scouts

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Portland attorney | 7:57 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I live in Oregon and I have followed Mr. Clark for many years. Ironically, he was suspended by the Oregon State Bar. He abused alcohol and plead guilty to a sex offense involving his ex-girlfriend. Just google his name and you will find out who he was before he made all his money suing churches. Unfortunately, in Oregon you can bring cases decades after the alleged abuse when there are no witnesses left to defend you. That is why the Catholic Church declared bankruptcy and the Church has a history of settling these cases. This is not justice, or Robin Hood. It is called winning the lottery.

money | 8:25 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

Its all about the $$$$$$ Quit kidding yourselves...

robert | 8:33 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

Its all about the $$$$$ and nothing else!!!

Comments continue below

Am I Missing Something? | 8:36 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

Of course, the LDS church and BSA have their share of members that are lyers, child predators, criminals, etc. In this regard, their membership is no different than any other organization in society. A predetor, as was the case in Oregon, will manipulate any good organization, be it little league, church, or BSA, if it allows easy access to unsuspecting victims.

The outcome of the lawsuit will be determined by: 1) when wdid the church and/or BSA become aware of the sex offender, 2) did they take appropriate action once the offender was identified (ie. excommunicate him and report him to the state authorities), 3) did they allow continued access to the victims after sex abuse allegation's had been made.

The LDS Church and BSA has and had, even back then, sound and brightline policies against sex abuse.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any reporting suggesting either organization was aware at that time that they had a child molester in their midst.

No Fan of BSA | 8:38 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

It's time for the LDS Church and Scouting program to part ways.

I see scouts breaking rules all of the time.
- Not enough leaders on trips.
- Scouts hanging out the back of vans and pickups as they place flags and collect flags. No seat belts, doors not even closed and scouts jumping in and out as the car is moving.

The young men of the church outside of the United States do just find without the Boy Scouts of American. Why do we affliate with organization that only serves a fraction of the church members?

When we lived outside of Utah, other scouting leaders where so frustrated by the scouting leaders in the LDS church and their inability to follow rules of the Scouting Program.

How do we move forward? | 8:56 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

How do we create great programs for youth and guarantee 100% that every adult is perfect? I hate to think of any abuse to anyone . . . but what about the terrific leaders that try to do a great job for youth? Should we simply cancel all programs that include interaction between adults and youth? No sports, no scouts, etc.?

I grew up with great scout leaders, and I excelled as a result. I did see some questionable stuff over 10 years, but I reported it, and the adults in question were investigated and kicked out of BSA. I loved the program and the things I learned - excelling to national leadership as a youth.

NOW? I wouldn't be a leader in the BSA. Too many dangerous accusations and a world where people can completely destroy everything you've tried to accomplish over a lifetime. NOTE: I'm NOT protecting abusers - indeed, they should be sent to jail. However, in our attempt to guarantee 100% perfection, we make running an honest, ethical, outstanding program nearly impossible to do.

The risks of running the program cost too much for genuine good leaders and the Church IMO. Too bad.

Really? | 8:56 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

LDS Abuse Witness - So are you saying this lady molested somebody's kid during sacrament meeting? Did she spank them? Touch them inappropriately? I find it hard to believe that a parent would be too scared to stand up for their child if they were truly being abused. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but your comments about people blocking your way as you tried to leave and scaring you seem very odd based on my experience at church. Are you saying the local church leaders knew the children were being abused, but stood idly by and let the lady molest the kids in public? Your comment is confusing.

UtahNative | 8:57 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I am a lawyer living in the Portland area. From my understanding of this case, the suit against the LDS church is very similiar to that brought against the Catholic church. At issue with both churches is the fact that officials in both church knew of action occuring and failed to act. Although the LDS church is conservative when it comes to sexual matters (and as such, some have suggested would never allow this to happen), shame that could come to the church's name trumped protecting children. As much as the people commenting on this board don't want to be grouped with the heathen Catholics, the two groups are exactly the same. Not all Catholics are pedophiles nor are most most mormons pedophiles. Sitting on a soap box, however, contributes to the shame the caused the non-action in these cases.

What if . . . | 9:11 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

Wouldn't it be great if everyone walked around with a sign on that said if they were a predator?

Come on! The Church does NOT permit abuse. Does it happen anyway? YES. The country doesn't permit murder. Does it happen anyway? YES. The BSA and the Church have worked for decades on keeping predators out - period. However, people can deceive and abuse despite either organizations best attempts.

When do we ask for personal responsibility? Where do I go to sue somebody? I look forward to getting my millions too . . .

Wouldn't it be great if we could trust each other? Wouldn't it be great if there were no bad things? Unfortunately, we have to live with the bad, but we cannot let it destroy all the good organizations that support values, ethics, and options for youth (as opposed to HBO, XBOX, and MTV 24/7).

Bitter | 9:11 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I was abused by my L.D.S. scout leader. Like most, just kept it to myself. Hey, I've got an idea Mr. English. Instead of having "the church" thoroughly investigate every allegation of child abuse, how about letting the police do it? Might have a different outcome... hmmm? As far as the BSA, I wouldn't let my sons join no matter what.

JB | 9:38 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I find this lawsuit disturbing. I'm not denying the abuse, but I'm denying the Church's involvement. We don't stand at the pulpit and preach abuse. In fact, we preach the opposite, that it's an abomination. Maybe the local leaders didn't do enough to prevent it, but they are human and make mistakes. Instead of blaming the Church, how about holding the abusers themselves accountable? They were not representing the Church nor the Scouts when they committed these acts. They were only representing their own lustful desires.

Grandmother | 9:46 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I agree with UtahNative. I have served as a Stake Relief Society President and as a senior missionary. In over a dozen cases that I have seen the church never came to the aid of the victims.

Seattle | 9:46 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I am surprised but then I shouldnt be to learn about the history of this attorney "promoting" these lawsuits. He is using the churches reluctance to want to release financial information as leverage to get a settlement regardless of the merits of the case. Given his history, if he gets any money, he will just be back with another person who claims the same thing happened to him. Sooner or later the church will have to force him to prove his case.

If the church leader knew about the abuse and allowed it to continue then it presents a problem for the church. That is the difference between the Chatholic church and LDS church. The catholic leaders knew about the problems and just transferred the priest to another parish. That is much different than the case here. They are also paid employees of the church. Our leaders are not paid. That might make a difference but I doubt it.

This lawyer is not interested in helping anyone but himself and his cause. The courts should not support that.

Phil | 9:51 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

While I was a cub scout leader I tried to get the fathers involved, no luck. So I had to have it over at my place while my wife was home because I could not get any other arrangement to follow the rules. Even at that I don't know if that is exactly how I was suppose to do it. You parents who are not involved are the problems. We have all these great boys in our current ward, a ton of the fathers are not members. Well they could be involved with boy scouts? No. Kids don't matter, that is the problem. Few faithful memebers try there best raising others kids. Would bad things happen if half the fathers of the boy scouts would show up to camp outs and meetings. NO.

Anne Frank | 10:02 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

"What one person does reflects that person, but what one jew does reflects all the jews," these are the words of Anne Frank, jew, and victim of the Nazi Regime. She died early March, 1945, and yet these words are still relevant. She believed every person be responsible for their own actions, and most importantly, that they not be seen as a standard for their faith. When my sister and I were abused by our neighbor the Church took extra effort in making sure we recieved adequate counseling free of charge. The same applyed to my brother and younger sister when they came forward. So i'm begging anyone who reads this, please, use the sixty years between us and Nazi Germany to gain some new perspective. It is the people who are corrupt, not the belief. put aside your biases against the church and realize we are all aiming towards the same goal: making sure this never happens again.

DCrawford | 10:07 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

This is a problem in every volunteer youth organization- Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Camp Fire, Little League, Soccer, after school programs, youth ministries, etc.

Despite the best efforts of both the BSA and the sponsoring organization (LDS Church in this case), predetors are drawn to youth programs.

Most of the major volunteer youth organizations today, strive to screen and educate the adult volunteers, as well as youth participants about proper adult-youth interaction,abuse identification and prevention training. Despite our collective best efforts, Predetors still get to the kids.

There is no easy answer with respect to abuse that took place 20+ years ago. But these organizations have worked hard to prevent/identify abuse. Should the CONVICTED Predetor be taken out and shot? Absolutely! Should our children stop participating in youth activities such as soccer, baseball, Boy Scouts, etc? Absolutely Not!

The issue is that within the legal profession today there is a cottage industry built around cultivating victimization of all stripes and flavors. Does a multimillion dollar civil judgement against any organization that has shown a commitment preventing and reporting abuse restore the innocence of a child?

They just want my money | 10:09 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

YES, yucky things have happened in church. Is it the churches fault...NO! I AM THE CHURCH! If I knew of this sort of thing I would be to the police right away. I wouldn't let a woman get away with abusing other peoples kids in church either. That is why we have levels of authority in the church to go to when those closest to abusers (ie. RS Pres., Bishops) can't see the writing on the wall because they are focused on trying to teach us love for all and compassion. That is a really hard thing to keep in your heart when you know a bandwagon of wanna be instant millionaires come forward with lawsuits. Even if they were molested, I, the basic church membership, AM NOT TO BLAME! So stop trying to take away all the tithing money I've ever given so I can have a decent place to worship and temples to serve God in, by suing ME! I didn't do the awful act to these defendants. They have a bone to pick with the church and want me to pay for their animosity because a "Wolf" played a sheep in the fold of God.

BlindJustice | 10:19 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

If you really are an attorney living in the Portland area, you would know that allegations of abuse brought against the Catholic Church are irrelevant in this case (except for their possible historical interest regarding those bringing suit) and that failure to act on the part of the LDS Church is alleged failure to act. While we hope the merits of this case will be considered fairly and without prejudice in a court of law, it is obvious that 1) many people fear the courts will not act fairly, and 2) they worry about a system that would allow an unfair perpetuation of abuse by those who have not suffered from it (ie: Mr. Clark). Civil and criminal procedures can have a balancing effect on one another, but they seem to lose public support when they proceed in what many perceive to be the wrong order. Let us hope the courts act more wisely than all who are guilty of abuse in this tragedy. Sadly, those who claim to have been wronged will not be the only victims.

Accountabiltiy | 10:24 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

Throw the Catholics under the bus...that will make this disretion easier to swallow; at least that is what some poster seem to believe.

I hope these allegations are not true but accountabilty, as with any corporation, are held to the board and chairman.

Anonymous | 10:24 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

I think if you watch the video this lawyer actually says "this rivals how much money I made off...um, I mean, the issues facing the catholic church..."
It is a sad, sad world when being trustworthy, loyal, helpful, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent are such terrible things! And heaven forbid we try to do our best to GOD and our country...sad.

Churchlover | 11:07 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

You know, the leaders of the church say it again and again, "The bishops are our representatives. We have entrusted them with the responsibility and authority to represent the church's interests. If we receive complaints and requests for intervention at the Stake, Area, or higher levels, those requests will be directed back down to the bishops."

That sword cuts both ways. If a bishop does turn a blind eye, then the church IS responsible for that.

Most of these comments sicken me. The remind me of the type of comments Catholics had for years until the truth was exposed, and it outrages me. What is so bad about exposing the truth to the light of day? What? A reputation of a leader or a church needs to be protected at the expense of our children? What a load of crap. The Church holds us accountable for our actions, but then we try to protect the Church from being held accountable? How many times have I heard, "The Church isn't perfect... the Gospel is..." But never with any SPECIFIC admission of imperfection. Only the vague acknowledgement that it's THEORETICALLY conceivable that some minor, un-named imperfections MIGHT exist?

Churchlove | 11:12 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

To finish my thought, there is a reason for accountability. The Church insists we learn it because without it, we cannot be held accountable for our mistakes, learn from them, improve ourselves, and eventually eradicate the mistake from our lives. Can the process be painful? Can it be costly to those who chose to face accountability? Yes. But the Church teaches us that it is worth the cost, and it is worth the pain, so that we might reach our highest potential.

Why shouldn't... why DOESN'T the church hold itself to this same standard for the same reason? Because it's already perfect? Wait... no... that can't be it, because we hear it all the time, "The Church isn't perfect. The Gospel is."

Ouch | 11:28 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

Wow. By some of these posts it's made to sound like the Catholic Church condons sexual abuse. I do agree that by moving priest out of parishes and that not reporting the abuses to the authoities was wrong, but don't make it sound as if we believe it acceptable. Not every priest molested children. In fact it was a handfull that brought a dark cloud over the church.
But as I've learned from my neighbors since I've lived here, it's the Catholics that are to blame for all the evil in religion.

don't blame good programs | 12:04 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

I was a boy scout as were my 3 brothers. I have been a scout leader off and on for many years as well. My oldest boy is working on his Eagle Project now and my 2nd son is a cub scout. These are great programs that teach these young men to work toward good goals and to acheive things that otherwise are not available in our self serving society.

The Boy Scouts have very explicit guidelines and requirements to keep the scouts and the scoutleaders safe and protected. The LDS church has very strict guidelines, even stricter than those in the BSA, as to how to conduct and run the scouting program.

When abuse occurs, it is being done when rules are ignored, guidelines are not followed and the directions from the governing bodies of the BSA and LDS church are sidestepped.

Pornography and sexual pervasive attitudes are to blame for this kind of infiltration of good programs and religions such as the BSA, LDS church or Catholoic church, not these organizations.

LDS Abuse Witness | 12:09 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

It was physical abuse. I saw her physically abuse two different children. She pulled these children into the foyer away from their families. She hit a 3 year old girl and pushed an 11 year old boy head-first into a wall. She was punishing both for not being reverent. With the 3 year old girl I was sitting in the back row at church so I saw everything. Everyone heard her hit and yell at the child. With the 11 year old I was in the foyer. Everyone heard her yell at the child. Nobody moved. I don't know why the 3 year old's aunt and grandma didn't say anything. The 11 year old's mother was a new convert and I don't know if she understood she had a right to say something. I didn't want to get involved; but then I decided I couldn't stay silent and have any respect for myself; so I confronted her about it during Sunday School - out in the hall away from people - which is when I was told off. Nobody told her off for abusing the children. 8 people left 3 different rooms to tell me off for confronting her.

Law of Moses for Sex Offenders | 12:12 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

I think we should embody the Law of Moses in civil law with regard to all sex offenders. At least there would be no repeat offenders! This Lawyer would be out of everybody's hair and unable to rape money from wealthy organizations.

LDS Abuse Witness | 12:13 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

To finish my comment - My family is all in Utah
but I live in another country. I have to travel 1 hour each way to go to church. The next nearest ward is 2 hours away from me. I haven't been back to church since that happened. It makes me sick to miss church. When it happened I called the Area Presidency. I don't know if anything happened. The RS President threatened to call Child Services if I reported the woman. (For what? I've never done anything to hurt my baby.) The Bishop called me about 4 days later. I told him I didn't want to go back to church. He said that was probably a good idea. My own Bishop asked me not to go back to church. He knew what happened. Everyone heard the abuse. I am heart-broken about it. I miss church.

Make the distinction | 1:00 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

The Catholic Church abuse scandal mostly identified church "leaders" (Priests) as the abusers. The LDS scandal appears to involve only regular non-clergy members of the congregation who were donating their time to the Boy Scout program. A huge distinction. I haven't seen anywhere where an LDS leader of a congregation as been implicated for child abuse. That being said, anyone who has perpetrated these act, no matter who they are, should be fully proscuted to the full extent of the law.

Dean | 2:47 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

wow 1980 27 years.What was the delay?to tell you the
truth i think it is just a witch hunt and a quick buck.The two go hand and hand.It is not that i think perverts should be allowed to go free.That is
not is at all.I have probelm after 27 years.They say
he was involved in other child abuse cases.My quest-
ion is this why did they wait 27 years before they reported and while they waited other kids got abused
I guess it took money for you to come forward.

healthnt | 7:06 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

LDS Abuse Witness, those are strong charges that I feel have a few details missing. I don't question that the woman was severe with the children, but I do find it really hard to believe that your RS Pres. threatened you with social services, and your Bishop told you not to come back. Maybe suggested attending another ward until things die down? Hmmmm...if it happened as you say it did, then the police should be notified, charges filed and the woman who hit the children AND all of the leaders whom you claim you had to push aside need to be charged with crimes as well. Something isn't right here, and you need to be careful about making these HUGE charges in a public forum without proof.

As for the rest of the story, you won't find attorneys like these going after the little country church with no assets. Abuse happens there too...but they don't have the funds to make it worth any attorney's time to pursue "for the sake of those abused."

Suits like this are just a part of the reason that the Church is preparing to back away from the BSA organization. Sad.

Thecatcher777 | 7:21 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

To: LDS Abuse Witness
Well it seems that you are in the same boat as the rest of the guilty except to blab on a blog site, not even informing everyone that you are in a very different country with different laws and standards. Yes, the church's standards are the same NO MATTER where you are located but the laws of the land do seem to prevail when it comes to involving law enforcement. Grab hold of your church standards and openly report the allegations, by posting here and not giving out enough information for someone to track, you do not sound too credible. I have seen lives ruined out of spite from angry spouses or disgruntled excommunicated members. ACCOUNTABILITY was mentioned, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, many of the Catholics that keep being thrown in with the corrupt priests that made headlines also worship Jesus Christ, give them a break and attack the corruption at the source. The individual first then the organization if it enables the corrupt activity. Time to stand up and be accountable for action as well as complacence.

hombre.de.steele | 8:19 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

Because we are humans, we ALL have the capability to be pedophiles. This horrible crime/sin does not rest or reside in anyone organization or church.

This takes a concerted effort on EVERYONES part to protect our children.

Having been a Scout Leader, I would go NO WHERE without two-deep leadership. I have had to cancel several campouts because I did not have the participation from the parents necessary for the two-deep leadership requirements.

To LDS Abuse Witness - If what you saw is true, why did you not go to the police and report the abuse? We all have responsibilities in protecting children.

JDL | 8:30 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

No worries. The LDS church is already planning it's press conference where they will come out and express their heartfelt sympathy for the families of the victims of these horrible pedophiliac actions of a few of their rogue members.

I believe the press conference is scheduled for October 8, 2157...

S'Up | 8:34 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

The church isn't necessarily responsible for members who secretively molest children.

However...They ARE responsible for covering up and/or not reporting such molestation to the proper authorities.

Such coverups are documented and they have and do happen.

R.M. | 8:43 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

To LDS Abuse Witness,
I also am confused about what you have said. I think if you want to go to church then go. Things die down after awhile. I can see one person making the mistake of not understanding what was going on and what you were doing but not so many others.

dh | 8:45 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

any more ridiculous law suits like this and I can see the LDS church droping scouting all together which would be a sad day for the young men who would benefit. Law suits in America are just plain corrupt along with the judges who rule on them. the legal system in this country needs an overhaul since it has swung way off the charts favoring law suits for any silly reason.

Mike | 8:51 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

The answer isn't keeping your children out of an organization that you had a sad experience with. The answer is for you to get involved in your child's life.

Ten years ago, I was recovering from a motorcycle accident with a broken collar bone. The scouts asked if I would support them on a winter overnight campout with my son. It was the middle of November and the plan was to sleep in a cave up Logan Canyon. That plan didn't work out, so we drove down to a campground and set up camp in 10 inches of snow. They gave me an air mattress to make me more comfortable, but all that did was transfer the cold from the ground into my sleeping bag. I slept for 20 minutes and then would wake up. It went on all night until I finally got up at 5 am and started a fire. Worse day of my life, but I would go through it all again if it meant assuring my children were safe at an activity they were involved in.

My apologies-from "my money" | 8:53 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

Obviously you did the right thing and those in authority turned against you. My apologies for making it sound as if you must not have. Did this happen in the country you live in and not the United States? There are very different standards about what is acceptable ways of discipling children from country to country and culture to culture. If you are currently living in a culture where corporal punishment is seen as okay and people still see the abuse of a child as a "family matter" and not something you deal with outside of the home or get involved in, than you, as I'm assuming you may be an American since your family is in Utah, will not be appreciated for standing up for the protection of a child. That is how things were in the United States only 30-40 years ago as well....churches included. I do believe you are not lying, but you need to take the matter to higher authorities, with in the U.S., and find another ward to attend if possible. Sounds like that would be hard, but if you speak truly, truth will prevail and you could bring about much good.

erik | 9:07 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

I am sure that abuse has happened in the past and probably will happen in the future, but I doubt that it is widespread. I have been involved in Scouting as a scout and a leader for 20 years and I have never seen anything. To blame the church is a mistake, they should prosecute the pedophile and if they want $25 million dollars they should sue the Mr. Dykes. It seems a mistake to slander the church because of one mans actions.

my apologies continued | 9:14 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

In this day and age it is difficult at times to tell who is being truthful and who is being spiteful, or both. I believe the ones who go after the deep pockets, whether they were abused or not, are just out for their way of getting back at "the church". That would be "US" folks. Whether you are a clergy or lay Catholic or LDS member or Scout Leader, you are the ones they hate so they are going to get all the money they can from you.
The woman who alleges she witnessed abuse in her ward and was treated so poorly afterward, has NOT sued and DOES miss church. And which of us would go back to a ward where the Bishop asked us not to attend for awhile because we were trying to bring an injustice to light? It would be VERY HARD! Does that make the Bishop an evil man? NO. It just means he's known the accused woman for a long time and he and the other ward members have been "turning the other cheek" to long because they accept the accused abuser as she is. The Lord is the ultimate judge...THANK HEAVENS.

l | 9:23 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

If leaders and parents will follow the rules, in terms of getting trained so they understand youth protection, two deep leadership, and other measures that are in place to make it harder for abuse and other safety problems to happen, we won't see as many issues.

The problem is that many LDS leaders do not require the scout leaders to be trained when they are called. They are now required to go through the BSA background check before they can officially be called and sustained by the ward. They should also be required to finish their training within a certain amount of time or be released.

Not getting trained means not only will there be more chances for bad things to happen, but it is also more likely that the leader will not even be able to run a program that will teach the boys anything or that they'll enjoy coming to.

Wife of an abused | 9:25 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

Twenty two years ago my husband was sexually abused while going to the bathroom at his LDS chapel. When the abuse was discovered, immediate action was taken against the abuser. I cannot imagine the church not doing the same in any case that came forward, although I'm not ruling out the possibility. It's such a hard thing to know what to do. In my research on the subject, I discovered that even parents will often ignore a child's claim because they just do know what to do or they don't want to believe it.

I do not think that suing the church will bring any healing for those who have been abused. Seeing first hand what it did to my husband for years and years, my heart goes out to them and I hope they find a way to forgive and get past it and turn their pain to more productive uses than suing. We are in the middle of starting a charity to help those who have been sexually abused as children and to help those who discover their children have been abused.

Robo | 9:26 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

Sueing the church will not reduce the amount of abuse that is occurring overall. It may result in the church dropping scouting and other overnight activities which would remove an avenue for the perpetrators to pursue their atrocities and perhaps decrease abuse in a church setting (as well as decrease the church's liability and remove a potential deep pocket), but I imagine the perpetrators would find another avenue. It's a tough decision. The programs do accomplish a lot of good in the lives of many, but protecting one child from such an experience is impossible to put a value on. Any thoughts?

Raymond Takashi Swenson | 9:44 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

Anyone who has been in a bishopric or high council for several years has had to excommunicate at least one sexual abuser like this. The greatest difficulty is that most people and church leaders have not personally dealt with criminals of any kind, and have a hard time believing that someone who acts nice in their presence is a lying monster when he's alone with a child. Most child sexual abusers appear likable; that's how they suck in their victims and the victims' parents. Pedophiles can be unmarried priests or married fathers, and fine people in their other actions. But they are monsters who abuse even their own children.

People who have not dealt with criminals on a personal or professional basis have a hard time believing that anyone who looks nice could be so terribly evil. Additionally, sex abusers have little control over their drives, so a prison term and other acts of repentance are not a safeguard against repetition. An abuser cannot be placed in a position of being tempted ever again.

No matter what organizatiuon we are in, we must be watchful for sexual abuse and not even allow situations where it can be expressed.

only in utah | 9:52 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

this scourge of disease will continue, there are also cases involving people in trust positions such as policemen who have been a slap on the wrist because of their connections to church officials, who themselves hold prosecuting positions. And because of this connection the slap basically is a handshake.And the heck with that "the lord will be the ultimate judge" when the stewarship is right in front of you! they want the fame but avoid the Blame!

Birdman | 9:59 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

The LDS church does take a proactive approach to assure the safety of children in all of its activities.

As a Primary worker in our ward we teach with two teachers in each class. If our partner is not there, someone subs in or the door to the classroom is left open the whole time class is held.
During our Primary Sacrament Mtg presentation last month, one of my seven-year-old girls was sad and upset, so I lifted her on to my lap and tried to show my concern for her feelings. It helped her to feel better. I am just hoping Mr. Clark doesn't get word of this and file another lawsuit against my actions.

Open Eyes | 10:00 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

When are you Mormons going to open your eyes? I cannot believe how much denial I see in these posts - minimizing abuse of children!? Blaming lawyers as being "opportunists" instead of facing a real problem?! Claiming that the LDS are not as bad as the Catholics! - Huh? That makes it OK?! What is the matter with you people? In a court of law, a representative of your Church is a liability for the entire Church, regardless of whether or not that person is "paid" or is a "volunteer."

The Data | 10:30 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

10 years ago, I worked as a research assistant for an LDS sociologist at a University that has a high percentage of LDS students. We studied the incidence of "institutional" sexual abuse in the LDS and other Churches as well as some other non-profit organizations. I don't have the data in front of me, but I recall that our research showed that sexual abuse (that occurred at Church events/activities) was much higher in the LDS Church than you would expect. It was almost as high as any of the other organizations. I think the LDS would just like to minimize this and make it go away - who wouldn't? But that is not the honest thing to do.

dcs | 11:02 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

After reading all these posts, I have the following observations:

1. I believe that those who use a position of trust or authority to abuse children sexually are the lowest of the low, the most detestable of all criminals. They are those of whom the Lord says: "Whoso shall offend one of these little ones . . . , it were better for him that a millstone where hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the midst of the sea."

2. No person will ever get away with anything. Either he repents and relies on the merits of Jesus Christ, or he will suffer commensurate with his sins. Those who do crimes in secret thinking they will not be found out will have a day of reckoning.

3. No organization is exempt from the infiltration of these vermin. But I do know this from experience: there is no organization that preaches more strongly against sexual and moral sin, especially child sex abuse--than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

4. Thank goodness the Lord judges all things. We judge so ignorantly in these pages. We just don't know. He does. He will get it right.

Daugter of abused turned abuser | 11:17 a.m. Oct. 5, 2007

My dad and most of his scout troup were abused by their leader as boys. Was the two-deep rule in place 45 years ago? Was abuse really just glossed over by everyone of the day? Abusers and deniers (those who knew and didn't act to protect the kids) should be held accountable for their past and current actions and inaction no matter what the belief-system of the time the crime was committed. There is a recognized problem now, so the church puts bounds in place; sounds like it's taken this long for it to come to light b/c processing takes time, and the abused needed to be heard before anyone could help them or prevent further hurt.

Since my father abused his kids instead of dealing with his past appropriately, while maintaining public face as a faithful church-goer, I have serious doubts about BSA or the church's ability to catch potential abusers preventing them from accessing kids. Abusers deal in secrecy and you can't count on background checks catching even most of them since victims typically can't report until they are more emotionally mature. I wouldn't let my boys do an overnighter without my husband there and possibly not then.

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