Deseret News | Reader comments: Gun issues hit close to S.L. home

Reader comments
Free lunch: Gun issues hit close to S.L. home

pro gun | 6:33 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

The Jewish kids were also safe in the un-armed Germany.

Mont | 6:37 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

While my heart goes out to them for their loss, I cannot condone their fight to have conceal weapons permit holders banned from compuses. What does that have to do with it? Show me one case where a CCW permit holder has gone postal (bad choice of words but you get the point). Bad guys will always be bad guys and responsible people who want to protect themselves should always be able to do so. If their son would have been carrying, he would have had a better chance protecting himself.

Phoenix Mother | 8:50 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

In phoenix more childern under the age of 12 die by drownings than by gun violence. Do you think we should outlaw the swimming pools? Makes just as much sense.

Comments continue below

Russ | 9:02 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

I will certainly support these folks their right to limit guns on campus's, or to control the ammo used.

I will also fight against their efforts. Last I heard, even a six-year-old can understand the 2nd Amendment, and I strongly believe that this IS a free country, where we are (supposed) to be considered as intelligent are responsible citizens, at least until we prove ourselves otherwise.

As a freedom loving American citizen, I should not have to have a CCW, but I do. As a result, I have subjected myself to being investigated by BOTH the FBI and state law enforcement. This is NO way to treat an honest, law abiding American citizen! WE should not have to be investigated, nor should be have to spend good money to unnecessarily prove to anyone that I do respect others - and the law. But I have.

As a result, please be advised, I will fight against ANY limitations upon my right to be a free and responsible American citizen.

Andrea J. | 9:15 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Bravo to the Molens! I am so sorry for their tragic loss and I wish them the best of luck in their efforts to reduce the number of deadly weapons in this country. They're right: How many people have to die before we wake up and make some changes? This is a new world that requires new measures!

Leah | 9:39 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

To the woman who wrote about the swimming pools: Give me a break! Yes, drownings are tragic, but you can't compare them to the thousands of violent deaths that occur in this country every year due to guns. There are simply too many of them and our kids are getting their hands on them. Instead of complaining about our "civil rights," we should take a hard look at solving this terrible problem. Thank you to Ron and Norma Molen for bravely standing up and saying, "enough!"

Mr walpin | 10:16 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

The same tragic storys of a family member being killed can be re-told hundreds of thousands of times over and over. (because they DID NOT have access to a firearm. There are daily stories of people able to defend themselves with a lawfully carried firearm.

There are good people and there are bad people BOTH kinds carry guns. What these anti gunners want to do is just restrict the Good folks from carryimng.

News Flash for this reporter. It was already against the law for the killer in this story to be carrying a firearm on campus. And "exploding" bullets???? Please elaborate on that.

Jazzbo | 10:32 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

The people who want to stop "gun violence" are absolutely right. Why, just this morning a gun flew into a convenience store in California and brutally murdered the unarmed clerk. I myself have seen many guns floating along through the air looking for victims. Sounds silly doesn't it? The point of course is that there's no such thing as "gun violence"; only humans exhibit mindless violent behavior. Admitting that is the first step to stopping crime.
By the way, the analogy to swimming pools is exactly right.

Steve | 11:04 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Can someone tell me where to buy these exploding bullets that were mentioned several times in the article?

I didn't think so, since they don't exist. As usual, while it is sad these people lost their child, a gun was the tool used to kill him, nothing more. What if it had been a knife? Would they be trying to outlaw knives as well?

The tired old arguments put forth by anti-gun people will never change, and never make sense either.

I have said many times before, get the facts on gun use before you start spouting off about them, I promise you will be amazed at how incorrectly firearms and their use are portrayed in our media and country.

Dan | 11:37 a.m. Sept. 27, 2007

I can totally respect their loss, it is a horrible thing. However, this story is typical of all of the efforts made by "gun-grabbers" playing on peoples emotions, using false "statistics" and stretches of the imagination in describing "exploding bullets" etc. And, if you don't like the comparison to swimming pools, then compare with cars that kill so many people every year. Are you wanting to ban them too? A firearm is simply a tool, the person using that tool is what determines the good or bad usage of that tool. And there are far more lives saved by the use of those tools every year than are lost

dba57 | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

A tragic story. I wonder when Ms. Free will do a story on a tragedy averted or minimized by a gun-wielding good guy. She shouldn't have to look any farther than Trolley Square.

Making guns illegal won't keep guns out of the hands of bad guys any better than it works for drugs. It will just leave law-abiding citizens defenseless.

Mr. & Mrs. Molen, I'm truly sorry for your loss. But please don't use your terrible experience to urge changes that will increase the chances of others having similar ones.

responsible gun owner | 12:38 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

I assume Drexler was in violation of the law in packing a concealed handgun with intent to commit murder. Laws generally do not prevent criminals, or mentally disturbed individuals from committing crimes of violence. The freedoms we enjoy in the USA are generally unique to the rest of the world, including the right of responsible citizens to own firearms. I assume that Drexler would have killed in some other fashion, like using a knife if he had not had a firearm to do his murderous act. The point is, with the freedoms we enjoy in America come responsibilities and risks also which we must endure. God bless America, Land of the Free.

MCJ | 1:40 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Wake up, people! This couple isn't demanding that all guns be banned. They would simply like tougher restrictions and as a hunter (yes, I do own a rifle) and a father of six, I agree. Why should any clown have the right to go to a gun show, buy whatever weapons he likes and be out the door in a matter of minutes to sell them on the street? I know this happens -- I've SEEN it happen. I agree that there ought to be places where we can't carry an armed weapon. My kids' school is at the top of the list!

Georgia | 3:01 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

What a tragic story! My heart goes out to this couple and their loss. While I don't think that guns should be outlawed, I think we do need tighter restrictions. My neighbor's son was the victim of a gang shooting several years ago. Luckily, he survived. But every day, there are stories of others who commit suicide or kill others in the heat of an argument. Why should anybody who wants a gun be able to get one? And yes, let's keep guns off the campus!!!!!

dba57 | 3:44 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

MCJ and Georgia - I am sympathetic to your desires to have safe areas like schools. I also have children in school, and it's hard to think of anything more important to me than their safety.

But can you tell us how these "gun free" zones are going to be enforced? I suspect there was already a ban on firearms in the Stanford dorms where this tragedy occurred, just like there was at Virginia Tech. There was also a ban at Trolley Square. Such laws don't seem to stop criminals.

What "tougher restrictions"? | 4:32 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

What are these tougher restrictions you speak of, MCJ?

Prohibit gun sales to felons or drug dealers? Already against the law.

Prohibit kids from carrying guns in schools? Ditto.

Prohibit gun possession by abusive ex-boyfriends? Yep, that too.

I can read the story above and see at least three current federal gun control laws that were violated during the commission of this crime, yet none of them prevented it from happening.

And that's not counting California state laws, which are generally much stricter than Utah's.

Look, I feel bad for the parents, I'm sure they have carried a huge amount of grief all these years.

But just because you're grieving doesn't automatically mean you're right, anymore than being a journalist means you automatically know what you're talking about.

Lee A. | 5:32 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Thanks for this story. For what it's worth, I agree with the Molens! I know that I'm outnumbered in conservative Utah, but I think that people are way too attached to their "good 'ole boy" weapons around here.

max | 8:19 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Please, Lee A (and others), do your really think you can reduce this discussion to some people being too fond of weapons??? I see lots of facts and very solid logic vs. emotion. If you or anyone else can think of a realistic proposal that is enforcable and would actually accomplish something positive, and you've got evidence and logic to back it up, let's hear it. But doing something worthless or even counterproductive just to feel good about doing something is silly.

John | 8:47 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Despite the real sympathy these parents deserve, after 15 years they can no longer be excused for claiming ignorance of the fact that their son's killer violated numerous laws (federal, state and University) and that their proposed solutions would have been ignored as well. Criminals do not obey gun laws, and the Center for Disease Control (a supporter of gun control schemes) did a very thorough study and was unable to identify a SINGLE gun control law that actually reduced violent crime. Law abiding gun owners are sick and tired of having their rights constantly eroded under the guise of "protecting the children". If any of the existing or proposed gun control schemes were rewritten to apply to the First Amendment instead of the Second Amendment, the news media would instantly change their positions.
More kids have been killed in Utah each year by parents backing over them in cars, or hit crossing streets, or on bicycles, than are killed by guns.
It is time to close down the gun control advocacy campaign and move on.
Perhaps fighting for harsher sentences for real criminals would be a better cause.

Tumbleweed Tom | 11:38 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

Wow! It was illegal for the Molen boy's killer to have a gun on campus. Did that prevent the killing? It was illegal in Va. for Cho to have a gun on campus and it was against campus policy. Did that stop the killing of 32 people? No. So now Utah has a chance to turn it around. but we won't if people on the U. of U. aren't ready to repel such an attack. We need MORE CCW's packing on campuses throughout the state. We need people to STOP thinking like helpless victims. For those going to private schools like BYU and Westiminister, if you can't carry a gun, carry a rock that will fit comfortably in your pocket and if something like what happened at Va Tech happens here I hope about 15 students will pull a rock or other hard object out of their pocket and brain the possessed little scumbag! If you don't feel comfortable w/ a gun or rock, how about a Taser or pepper spray? Don't just sit there and die; fight back w/ whatever you can legally use and what you feel comfortable carrying.

Small town grandma | 11:54 p.m. Sept. 27, 2007

My heart goes out to the Molens for the loss of their son. I can't think of anything worse than losing a child.

However, as others have commented, further restricting the ownership and use of firearms will not keep the bad guys from using firearms while breaking the law. It would reduce the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves.

For a while this week, it was thought that two escaped killers were making their way south to the town of Vernal. Because of the 2nd Amendment, I was able to keep my pistol with me in case it was needed for personal protection. I'm not saying the entire town was armed, but many of us were. Wives and mothers and grandmothers had greater protection capabilities because of the 2nd Amendment. In a conversation with my daughter-in-law, who is the stay at home mother of an infant, she happened to mention she, too, was armed. If push came to shove, I would much rather have the capability of facing a convicted killer with a firearm than with words.

BTW, I, too, wonder what "exploding bullets" are.

Jazzbo | 7:27 a.m. Sept. 28, 2007

MCJ, if you have really seen somebody buy guns at a gun show and then run outside and sell them on the street, then you have witnessed a "straw purchase", which is a crime. Did you report this to the police or ATF? I thought not. And while I'm glad you are a hunter (I am too), that is irrelevant; the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It is all about self defense.

bob | 1:37 p.m. Oct. 1, 2007

Liberal tripe, at best...

Todd | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 1, 2007

Exploding bullets...

Thats a laugh. They don;t exists anymore.
They were tried in the late 1800's and early 1900's and the ones they tried in the 70's would blow up in yer hand or barrel.

30,000 gun deaths a year...Thats a real good one...
90,000 die from medical mal-practice, 160,000 from LADDERS. Lets ban those 2 items first.

Right2Arms | 5:29 p.m. Oct. 1, 2007

If their son was armed he could have defended himself and the girl.

Marcus P. | 9:51 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007

This story raises some important issues. Thank you for writing it! I agree that something needs to be done to curb gun violence in our country. Wake up, people!

Thoughtful1 | 10:39 a.m. Jan. 12, 2008

While were talking about eliminating the causes of gun violence, let's talk about the root causes - people. Most if not all of the perpetrators of gun violence were either socially imbalanced or emotionally disturbed.

What influence do problems in their family life (either as a child, a spouse, or a parent) have on an individual's actions. What influence do violent games and movies have on choices we make in settling conflict. You can observe children on any school playground acting out things they have seen on violent programs "children's" programming. I have observed this same phenomenon in my own grand children.

If we really want to understand the problem and come up with a solution, let's look at the root cause, not the leaves. A gun was merely a tool used to manifest the pain or frustration of a deep-seated problem. A gun is just an effective "tool". The perpetrators of gun violence could also have used bombs, bows, molotov cocktails, or other tools to achieve their ends.

I support the licensing of guns just like cars, but I think the argument for eliminating them altogether is misguided because it's an easy target.

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