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Jury finds Jeffs guilty
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Mongo | 9:54 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
The real abuse I see every day from folks from the "Twin Cities"
(Hildale and Colorado City) is in the way they abuse the laws of the land and
get away with it. Our grocery stores are full of those folks using their WIC
vouchers and Food Stamps that they have obtained through lies and deceit. There
are many businesses in So. Utah will not take checks from the cities because
they never get paid. We watch them speed through our towns with truck loads of
underage workers who are denied schooling and have to work. Come live down here
for awhile and you will see plenty of sanctioned abuse. If Joseph Smith were
alive, they would all be excommunicated for fraud.
Cricker | 9:59 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
Glad Warren went down. He is a great pretender sent by Satan to destroy the one
true restored church. Now if Heavenly Father will provide us with a real
prophet the true restored church can get back on its feet. The FLDS is the real
church of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor.
Denise | 10:17 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
I understand the questions of why others were not prosecuted in this case. Maybe
now they will -- meantime a very powerful man has been taken down, and hopefully
it will have a domino affect and save so many other repressed and abused people.
Comments continue below
just a thought | 10:34 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
Jeff's clan and the Kingstons are known for child abuse and horrible forced
underaged marriages but many clans are not. Many people CHOOSE to live in
plural marriage and are well educated and feed and cloth their own children with
out Govt. assistance. Who am I to judge them for their choices? They should have
the right to live together just like people who chose to "Shack up"
with one or more persons and not marry. In fact, in a LOVING plural marriage,
children are well cared for by many moms who are as protective as other parents.
To know God is to let go of our reigns and allow Him to guide us where He will.
That takes faith and confimation by the spirit that it is right. Jeff's
denied his followers that right. I'm NOT a polygamist, but I support
freedom to choose ones path. I don't support homosexual lifestyles either,
BUT I can not deny someone elses right to live that way. I teach my children
that God would not have us live certain ways, but if they chose a different
path, than I will still love them though there choices may cause me great pain.
begs the ? | 11:01 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
can anyone help me out here. honestly. why was jeffs on the nations most wanted
list? was it for arranging a marrage? doesn't this happen in other cultures
right here in the us? [it does in greek, itialian, arabic and etc] was it for
practicing polygamy. i know other cultures practice without fear..think islamic
communities in chicago.
it cant be for the age of the couple, since it's lawful for a 14 and 19 yo to marry in utah. surely not for his religion. do we really want to decide which religous practices are acceptable in a court of law? and lastly, why a life sentence?
i believe children need to be protected.
i believe the law should be applied fairly and uniformly. since it's not, i think jeffs is being made a martyr in a very real sense. no, i don't belong to any polygamous community, [i happen to be monogamous] but this whole thing smacks of a witch hunt.
it cant be for the age of the couple, since it's lawful for a 14 and 19 yo to marry in utah. surely not for his religion. do we really want to decide which religous practices are acceptable in a court of law? and lastly, why a life sentence?
i believe children need to be protected.
i believe the law should be applied fairly and uniformly. since it's not, i think jeffs is being made a martyr in a very real sense. no, i don't belong to any polygamous community, [i happen to be monogamous] but this whole thing smacks of a witch hunt.
Puzzled | 11:03 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
As members of the "Real" LDS church, we still believe in Plural
Marriage. It is doctrine (D&C 132) waiting to be practiced in another time
and place. I think this case, even though it is rife with forms of abuse that
were not present in all 19th Mormon plural marriages, is an excellent
opportunity for us to look at polygamy in a current context and see how it
really looks and feels. Especially to women and girls.
I personally find it offensive and wrong. There is no possible justification or 'glory' in marrying more than one woman. I would not like it if my wife had another husband.
I personally find it offensive and wrong. There is no possible justification or 'glory' in marrying more than one woman. I would not like it if my wife had another husband.
jj | 11:07 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
to wake up & see the abuse,
Well said, and I agree. Organize community help.
The children deserve MUCH better than this.
Well said, and I agree. Organize community help.
The children deserve MUCH better than this.
Phil | 11:19 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
You guys sure love your neighbor in Utah. Wasn't Jeffs just doing what
he was raised to believe? The whole jury stuff will possible lead to a miss
trial, ruled of coarse by an upper court.
Mary | 11:34 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
I wish the mormon faith would take a look at the Jeff's situation and
realize that their beloved prophet, Joseph Smith, did exactly what Jeff's
did. For some reason mormons they don't want to believe that---it's
called brainwashing. Being raised in the mormon religion---I am grateful to
have not let the brainwashing I received as a child within the mormon faith
continue with me into adulthood. FLDS, mormons, it's all the same.
anonymous is a State thing!!! | 11:37 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
Hey check this out; Persons who are at least 18-years of age are considered
adults and do not need parental or guardian consent to obtain a marriage
license. Minors between the ages of 14 and 17-years of age must have written
parental consent on the official form signed in the presence of the county
clerk, or have an order from the Texas district court authorizing the marriage.
Minors under the age of 14-years are not allowed to marry.
And this;
TOPEKA, Kan., May 5 (UPI) -- A bill setting 15 as the minimum legal age for marriage has received final legislative approval in Kansas.
Kansas is the only state with no age requirement. Gov. Kathleen Sibelius is expected to sign the bill, the Wichita Eagle reported.
And this;
TOPEKA, Kan., May 5 (UPI) -- A bill setting 15 as the minimum legal age for marriage has received final legislative approval in Kansas.
Kansas is the only state with no age requirement. Gov. Kathleen Sibelius is expected to sign the bill, the Wichita Eagle reported.
Interloper | 11:39 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
I am heartened by most of the responses on this thread because they hold Jeffs
responsible for his conduct as his flock's 'god on Earth.'
However, there are apologists for Jeffs here, too. They are offering some
really bizarre reasoning that boils down to 'protect Jeffs at any
cost.'
As for the person who claims the verdicts will be overturned on appeal, I doubt that. All of the elements of the crime of rape as an accomplice were met. Ms. Wall was coerced, did not consent and there was more than a three-year age difference between her and her putative husband. The people who keep obsessing over whether force was used are missing the point. Force is not necessary for the conviction.
I do not think the putative husband or Ms. Wall's parents will be charged. And, I believe that is correct. Their autonomy was next to non-existent once 'The Prophet' ordered them to do as told.
As for the person who claims the verdicts will be overturned on appeal, I doubt that. All of the elements of the crime of rape as an accomplice were met. Ms. Wall was coerced, did not consent and there was more than a three-year age difference between her and her putative husband. The people who keep obsessing over whether force was used are missing the point. Force is not necessary for the conviction.
I do not think the putative husband or Ms. Wall's parents will be charged. And, I believe that is correct. Their autonomy was next to non-existent once 'The Prophet' ordered them to do as told.
Age, is a state thing | 12:05 a.m. Sept. 26, 2007
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic,
misrepresentative,
What?!? My first comments was removed, Why?
My info came off the web! Check out the LAW in Texas and Kansas for yourself. JC
What?!? My first comments was removed, Why?
My info came off the web! Check out the LAW in Texas and Kansas for yourself. JC
Emma | 10:16 a.m. Sept. 26, 2007
Many here don't seem to know their own church history. Warren Jeffs was
just "following the prophet" who did exactly the same even though
underage marriage was just as bizarre then.
John Haverty | 10:21 a.m. Sept. 26, 2007
Not that I support statutory rape, but it should be known that in America in the
late 1700's, it was not uncommon for the wives of men to be 13.
And in a modern sense, who cares if a man has more than one wife as long as they all agree? Its a private contract between agreeing adults.
And in a modern sense, who cares if a man has more than one wife as long as they all agree? Its a private contract between agreeing adults.
jj | 10:26 a.m. Sept. 26, 2007
I wonder if Jeffs will be able to post bond, until the sentencing phase begins
(in Nov)?
I hope that the flight risk thing, enters into this equation !!
I hope that the flight risk thing, enters into this equation !!
Heather | 2:11 p.m. Sept. 26, 2007
Just a little history lesson for everyone. The LDS church was restored in the
1800's, not the 1700's. Many of the early leaders had multiple wives
as a way of caring for the women of the church because in those days, women had
no rights without a husband and there were not enough men to go around. A woman
could not own property, livestock, anything, she had no legal rights - that was
by US gov't laws, not church laws. The solution was consensual adult plural
marriage, which was outlawed by the US gov't as an excuse to prosecute the
church and arrest influential leaders. One of the tenants of the LDS church is
to obey the laws of the land. Men did not abandon their wives when the law was
passed, but the leadership tried very hard to make sure that no new plural
marriages occured. When what is now the FDLS church broke off they continued
plural marriage, and has obviously perverted even their own religion over the
years. Early plural marriage, no matter what your veiws on it, bears no
resemblance to what Jeffs does now. Religion is not the issue - child welfare
is.
Kristof | 8:45 p.m. Sept. 26, 2007
its good at least that this whackjob got convicted but again im a little
confused what the REAL goal behind it was.. granted i believe all ppl who rape
or are accomplices to rape should be sent to jail and/or castrated.. but did
they want to get him for polygamy or what? i agree that if you wish to root out
a false prophet you must shed light onto his falsehoods and if that was the
objective they failed.. if it was to convict him of rape i agree they need to go
after all consenting members who helped the cousin rape her.. there is no excuse
to hurt children, women, or animals in my eyes and religion is the furthest
thing from an excuse for any wrong act.. just my 2 cents on the whole thing. I
think its a bit odd how the case went through but I suppose thats why I'm
not a lawyer.. If there is any sort of higher power I don't believe that
they would approve of any such acts as what he has done.. I don't
dissaprove of polygamy.. I believe one can love many different people.. so dont
call me a bigot..
DEBATER | 1:30 p.m. Sept. 28, 2007
===
Continuation of Literary Efforts/Work: research, fact/fiction, or both and disclaimers.
W. Jeff was found guilty of:
"ABUSE OF FORCING IDEALS" ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD
and
ABUSE OF FORCING IDEAL-PRIORITIES-FALLACIES ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD
OR
ABUSE OF FORCING "IDEAL-FALLACIES" ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD
Continuation of Literary Efforts/Work: research, fact/fiction, or both and disclaimers.
W. Jeff was found guilty of:
"ABUSE OF FORCING IDEALS" ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD
and
ABUSE OF FORCING IDEAL-PRIORITIES-FALLACIES ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD
OR
ABUSE OF FORCING "IDEAL-FALLACIES" ON A 14 YEARS OLD CHILD
in response to mary | 7:10 p.m. Sept. 29, 2007
well in response to mary's comment joseph smith did not do what jeffs did.
prophet joesph smith did not molest or abuse little girls there was simply not
enough men to go around in our religion we believe in not having sex until we
are married and how would prophet smith do so he being the leader people would
think all he said was lies. mary you may want to call it brainwashing but that
is not what the church is. also i am very disgusted at the fact that jeff used a
religion to justify what he did only a true pig could do that.
Perversion | 6:29 p.m. Nov. 20, 2007
Good riddance to bad rubbish!!
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