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Voucher foe in 'lion's den'?
37 comments | Read story
dyc | 6:01 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
As an educator, I wouldn't be opposed to vouchers if I saw they allowed us
to focus on what is best for ALL children. However, private schools do not have
to take special needs children. Private schools do not have to hire certified
teachers. Private schools are not required to take the same year-end tests
required of public schools. I strongly support the right of private schools to
do what they believe is best for their students. I also support the right of
parents to send their children to the school that best meets their educational
needs, but not with public money.
Jake Thomas | 6:41 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
I agree with anti-voucher unions that religion should not be brought into this
debate. It has no place! Too bad their view only goes one way since their
biggest supporters - the Utah Democrat Party -- has called voucher supporters
"anti-Mormon" and "segregationist." I wonder why the
Deseret News fails to mention these points in the article?
Vouchers Make Sense | 7:43 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
We already have public dollars going to private schools through grants in
colleges. I bet 70% of students at BYU have used grants which are public funds.
I support vouchers because I believe parents should have the choice regarding
their child's education - not the school system. I truely feel that some
competition in the system would raise the bar across the education system. I do
not understand why the UEA is so afraid of vouchers when the schools are already
bursting at the seams. By the way, I have children the the public school
system. I plan to keep them in the public schools and still support vouchers.
Comments continue below
Open minded | 7:47 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Shouldn't parents have the final say regarding how their children should be
educated? We should trust parents to make the right decision for their own
children's educational needs - whether it is a public or private education.
Parents DO have choice | 7:57 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Yes, parents should have a choice and they currently DO have a choice. But my
choice is NOT to fund childrens PRIVATE school tuition with MY tax dollars.
Public School is just that, PUBLIC, so tax dollars should be spent to fund and
maintain the institution, but tax dollars should NOT be spent to fund private
FOR PROFIT educational institutions.
Chuck | 7:58 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
No honest person could misconstrue early church leaders comments to support
vouchers! Their whole opposition was to funding of schools by tax dollars.
They knew that the government strings would follow. That is EXACTLY what
vouchers does to private schools!
Mero, etc., are hoping few people look deeply at what he said and just assume the LDS Church supports vouchers. They wish the Church would create a school system, so they wouldn't have to be involved in the issues or schools anymore. It really is laziness on voucher proponent's part.
Mero, etc., are hoping few people look deeply at what he said and just assume the LDS Church supports vouchers. They wish the Church would create a school system, so they wouldn't have to be involved in the issues or schools anymore. It really is laziness on voucher proponent's part.
Mero is , , , | 8:28 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Mero's assertion that Mormons should not support public schools because
they might lose their culture is poppycock. Since there is a seminary building
adjacent to every junior high and high school, this would seem to indicate there
is not happening. By the way, in urban areas, without the seminary program, the
underfunded public school system would have even more problems meeting student
needs because the students WHOSE PARENTS CHOOSE to have them participate in
seminary on released time helps reduce class size a bit during each day.
The voucher proponents are getting more and more desperate. Trying to bring the church into it and sending people like Eyre to suggest the UEA would punush supporters is ridiculous. Last time I checked, no one looked over my shoulder when I cast a ballot. Can if they want to, because I am definitely voting no. But it is becaused I have always fundamentally opposed using public funds for private schools,despite having attended both.
The voucher proponents are getting more and more desperate. Trying to bring the church into it and sending people like Eyre to suggest the UEA would punush supporters is ridiculous. Last time I checked, no one looked over my shoulder when I cast a ballot. Can if they want to, because I am definitely voting no. But it is becaused I have always fundamentally opposed using public funds for private schools,despite having attended both.
Jay | 8:57 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Choice is available with the systems we already have. The assertion that
vouchers will provide more choice is a fallacy. Private schools choose who they
will admit; that is their right. That right should end when they accept public
money, they should accept any student who wants to attend. This will not happen
and is why the idea of increased choice is illusory.
Jim | 9:30 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
In the coming ten years we will have an additional 145,000 students to educate,
over and above the 550,000 we already have. The cost to the state (taxpayers)
to educate these kids in the public system is now $ 7,500 each. The cost to the
state (taxpayers) to educate these kids in the private system is a voucher of $
500 to $ 2,500. The more kids we can educate with a voucher, the more money the
state will have to spend on the kids who remain in the public system. So, if
you love public schools and desire for more funding per pupil, support vouchers!
Ron S. | 9:45 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
We send both my children to a private school. We like the environment for them,
it is safer, the class sizes are smaller, they follow a very strict educational
program, which has been established as quality. We like that the teachers of
every grade know the names of all the children, it is a nice place for our kids
to be. Additionally, both our kids performed very well on the SATs, with our
2nd grader performing at a 10th grade level in reading, math and science. I do
not care about vouchers, we fortunately can afford the $1,000 a month for this
private school, it has been one of our best investments, no question. I just
wish more people had the opportunity so send their kids to private schools. Our
private school is simply better than the public alternative, in every way we
deem important. If vouchers don't work, then I would personally like to
see a tax break for lower income families with children in private schools. A
good education will do more for a child's future, economic potential, and
benefit our country more than anything else we can do for them in their young
lives. It is unfortunate we cannot trust the government to educate our kids
effectively, but it is a fact. There is very little governments can do better
than the private sector, we see it everyday.
burt | 9:53 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Can someone please tell me the answer to this question? The weighted pupil unit
is aproxx $5500.00 per student. If up to $3000.00 is the limit of private
school vouchers that leaves the rest to public schools to either change the
weighted pupil unit up or to maintain programs that might have otherwise been
cut since there will be less crowded classrooms. My taxes go to pay for my
childrens education, just as other peoples taxes go to pay for thier children a
certain portion comes from people with no children in the system, but isn't
it fair that some of everyones money go to their own children whether to private
or public schools? I have been told that the money will remain in the school
system only a few years and then will be gone? Where will it go? Isn't
smaller class loads one of the things teachers want? My other concern is some
children will not thrive in the private school as parents find it difficult to
manitain the commute on their own etc. and the students trickle back to public
schools. This flux will be very hard for the system to manage without some
pretty nasty bumps in the road. Thanks to all for the education I am about to
get.
burt | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Can someone please tell me the answer to this question? The weighted pupil unit
is aproxx $5500.00 per student. If up to $3000.00 is the limit of private
school vouchers that leaves the rest to public schools to either change the
weighted pupil unit up or to maintain programs that might have otherwise been
cut since there will be less crowded classrooms. My taxes go to pay for my
childrens education, just as other peoples taxes go to pay for thier children a
certain portion comes from people with no children in the system, but isn't
it fair that some of everyones money go to their own children whether to private
or public schools? I have been told that the money will remain in the school
system only a few years and then will be gone? Where will it go? Isn't
smaller class loads one of the things teachers want? My other concern is some
children will not thrive in the private school as parents find it difficult to
manitain the commute on their own etc. and the students trickle back to public
schools. This flux will be very hard for the system to manage without some
pretty nasty bumps in the road. Thanks to all for the education I am about to
get.
Craig | 10:03 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Jay you are wrong. You are telling me a private school will say to a student,
we don't want your $5,000 or whatever a year it costs to attend. No way.
That's as ridiculous as a comment like: Wal-mart won't allow all
people to enter thier store. They don't want everyone making them more
rich. See, you just don't understand that money talks. You don't
understand private industry. It is the public schools who don't want the
lesser students. I read it all the time. Complaints about minorities bringing
down their No child left behind scores, and troubled kids who are disturbances
in class that make it hard. These kids need private industry. Private Industry
won't complain (and won't have any reason to) about any of the crap
the public schools complain about and despise them. They will welcome thier
voucher-guaranteed! And the student will benefit.
charisma | 10:04 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
I am a teacher and I support vouchers. After reading through the legislation,
here's what I can see:
1. For five years public schools retain the funding for those students who choose to go to private schools. Doesn't that increase the per pupil expenditure b/c the public school has the $$ but not the student?
2. Private schools who choose to accept vouchers must comply with state-mandated testing procedures...so, there is some "public" accountability.
3. Caron-Smith scholarships are designed for special needs students to take advantage of in private schools.
3. If private schools accept voucher students, they must disclose their accreditation and each teacher's credentials to the parents. Here's the great thing about choice in education...if the parents aren't comfortable with the level of certification, they can CHOOSE to send their kids elsewhere. However, in a private school, "bad" teachers are let go. In public schools they are shuffled from one school to the next b/c they have tenure. Ask any kid, parent or honest teacher and they can all tell you who the "bad" teachers are.
As a teacher, it's frustrating to put my heart and soul into my job, and get paid the same as the teacher next to me who does nothing.
I am voting FOR vouchers...and did I mention that I am a teacher?
1. For five years public schools retain the funding for those students who choose to go to private schools. Doesn't that increase the per pupil expenditure b/c the public school has the $$ but not the student?
2. Private schools who choose to accept vouchers must comply with state-mandated testing procedures...so, there is some "public" accountability.
3. Caron-Smith scholarships are designed for special needs students to take advantage of in private schools.
3. If private schools accept voucher students, they must disclose their accreditation and each teacher's credentials to the parents. Here's the great thing about choice in education...if the parents aren't comfortable with the level of certification, they can CHOOSE to send their kids elsewhere. However, in a private school, "bad" teachers are let go. In public schools they are shuffled from one school to the next b/c they have tenure. Ask any kid, parent or honest teacher and they can all tell you who the "bad" teachers are.
As a teacher, it's frustrating to put my heart and soul into my job, and get paid the same as the teacher next to me who does nothing.
I am voting FOR vouchers...and did I mention that I am a teacher?
Craig | 10:06 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
You want proof of what I'm talking about: see what dyc wrote:
"private schools do not have to take special needs children" They
don't have to, but they will want to, as opposed to dyc and the public
school system.
Dean of Ed. | 11:25 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Ron S.,
The fact that your 2nd grader reads at a 10th grade level is not due to private schooling--it is because you helped him/her to tap the potential which is inherent in all human beings before school even started. Whenever private schools tout test scores as a reason for existence I have to laugh. Of course most of their scores are going to be better--they have highly motivated parents as clients! The real trick is to take all students, both unmotivated and motivated and help them suceed. Private schools will do no more for our society than public schools currently are doing. As a matter of fact, if I were a private schooler I would be against vouchers because it will turn private schools into what you've all been running from in the first place--a dangerous place full of real ideas and real people. The issue of safety is only in your head. There is danger everywhere we look--just depends which day and where it decides to raise its ugly head.
The fact that your 2nd grader reads at a 10th grade level is not due to private schooling--it is because you helped him/her to tap the potential which is inherent in all human beings before school even started. Whenever private schools tout test scores as a reason for existence I have to laugh. Of course most of their scores are going to be better--they have highly motivated parents as clients! The real trick is to take all students, both unmotivated and motivated and help them suceed. Private schools will do no more for our society than public schools currently are doing. As a matter of fact, if I were a private schooler I would be against vouchers because it will turn private schools into what you've all been running from in the first place--a dangerous place full of real ideas and real people. The issue of safety is only in your head. There is danger everywhere we look--just depends which day and where it decides to raise its ugly head.
Lynne | 11:54 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007
It is a myth that most parents pay enough in taxes to pay for their
children's education in the public schools. It takes a public investment
of tax dollars from those with no children and those whose children are grown
and out of school.
If tax money is used to fund private for profit voucher schools the public deserves accountability for the way their money is spent. The voucher law as written requires very little accountability.
Voucher schools will have......
1)NO thorough annual audit requirements for the first five years
2)NO public financial reporting requirements (GRAMA)
3)NO Core Curriculum requirements. Anything can be taught or not taught.
4)NO teacher training/licensing requirements
5)NO school accreditation requirements
6)NO required days or hours of instruction
7)NO uniform testing requirements
8 NO required protections of, or access to records
Public school have all these accountabilities. With so little accountability required of voucher schools, isn�t there a risk new schools will spring up to take advantage of our tax dollars and make a profit at the expense of a quality education for our children?
The taxpayers of Utah deserve accountability for the use of their money and the education of their children! The voucher law is a law that subjects our children to an experiment without critical safeguards, and takes scarce money away from public schools.
PUBLIC SCHOOLS PUBLIC MONEY
PRIVATE SCHOOLS PRIVATE MONEY
If tax money is used to fund private for profit voucher schools the public deserves accountability for the way their money is spent. The voucher law as written requires very little accountability.
Voucher schools will have......
1)NO thorough annual audit requirements for the first five years
2)NO public financial reporting requirements (GRAMA)
3)NO Core Curriculum requirements. Anything can be taught or not taught.
4)NO teacher training/licensing requirements
5)NO school accreditation requirements
6)NO required days or hours of instruction
7)NO uniform testing requirements
8 NO required protections of, or access to records
Public school have all these accountabilities. With so little accountability required of voucher schools, isn�t there a risk new schools will spring up to take advantage of our tax dollars and make a profit at the expense of a quality education for our children?
The taxpayers of Utah deserve accountability for the use of their money and the education of their children! The voucher law is a law that subjects our children to an experiment without critical safeguards, and takes scarce money away from public schools.
PUBLIC SCHOOLS PUBLIC MONEY
PRIVATE SCHOOLS PRIVATE MONEY
Parent Choice | 12:53 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
As a parent of elementary children I feel I am the one who can best determine
where to educate my child. The WHOLE idea behind vouchers is to empower parents
to look after the best interests of their children's education. I am
confident that parents will look into both options - public and private (that is
if they are given the CHOICE) and make the decision that best meets their childs
acedemic needs. Vouchers will help give parents MORE options.
Additonally, we are already giving public money to private school, i.e. grants. Using public money in private institutions is nothing new.
LET PARENTS CHOOSE WHERE THEIR CHILDREN CAN BEST BE EDUCATED.
Additonally, we are already giving public money to private school, i.e. grants. Using public money in private institutions is nothing new.
LET PARENTS CHOOSE WHERE THEIR CHILDREN CAN BEST BE EDUCATED.
taxpayer money | 1:03 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
PUBLIC SCHOOLS=TAXPAYER DOLLARS=MY MONEY
PRIVATE SCHOOLS=TAXPAYER DOLLARS+MY MONEY=MY MONEY
So, what's the problem here? Why is it so difficult to grasp the voucher concept, that parents can decide where their "taxpayer dollars" end up, whether public, or private?
I sense a lot of fearmongering on the part of the anti-voucher crowd who doesn't seem to understand how private schools are run. It's consumer driven. If private schools hired scum of the earth non-certified dregs, nobody would put their kids in that private school. Therefore, they hire highly qualified certified/non-certified teachers that will help attract more "consumers," and they all keep their jobs.
As for the concern about days/hours, again, if a private school isn't cutting it, nobody would go there and they would be shut down.
All the info about accreditation and licensure of teachers has to be disclosed to parents prior to beginning, so they can decide whether or not to send their kids there.
The bottom line for this whole debate is what's best for the kids. Concerning the voucher issue, teacher's unions and administrators are not looking out for the kids, they're looking out for #1.
I have yet to see any valid argument as to why vouchers should not be allowed. Vote yes for vouchers and increase competition.
PRIVATE SCHOOLS=TAXPAYER DOLLARS+MY MONEY=MY MONEY
So, what's the problem here? Why is it so difficult to grasp the voucher concept, that parents can decide where their "taxpayer dollars" end up, whether public, or private?
I sense a lot of fearmongering on the part of the anti-voucher crowd who doesn't seem to understand how private schools are run. It's consumer driven. If private schools hired scum of the earth non-certified dregs, nobody would put their kids in that private school. Therefore, they hire highly qualified certified/non-certified teachers that will help attract more "consumers," and they all keep their jobs.
As for the concern about days/hours, again, if a private school isn't cutting it, nobody would go there and they would be shut down.
All the info about accreditation and licensure of teachers has to be disclosed to parents prior to beginning, so they can decide whether or not to send their kids there.
The bottom line for this whole debate is what's best for the kids. Concerning the voucher issue, teacher's unions and administrators are not looking out for the kids, they're looking out for #1.
I have yet to see any valid argument as to why vouchers should not be allowed. Vote yes for vouchers and increase competition.
Teacher | 1:34 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Lynne,
It seems you saying private schools are turning out illiterates with no future. Unless you have a child in a private school you are not qualified to enter this debate. My child has had five years of private school and from personal experience I can tell you all of your arguments against private schools are simply based on rumor. Private schools are accountable to parents. Public schools in Utah are accountable to no one. I should know something about public schools. That's where I teach. Try to fire me.
It seems you saying private schools are turning out illiterates with no future. Unless you have a child in a private school you are not qualified to enter this debate. My child has had five years of private school and from personal experience I can tell you all of your arguments against private schools are simply based on rumor. Private schools are accountable to parents. Public schools in Utah are accountable to no one. I should know something about public schools. That's where I teach. Try to fire me.
Le | 2:25 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
I have researched the history covered in the Southerland essay over the past 12
years, and everything he (Mero) says is accurate (it is understated, if
anything). I agree that so-called public schools are the worst possible
mechanism for educating students. However, I oppose vouchers because they will
be a Trojan Horse to destroy all alternatives to government-controlled schools.
The best alternative is parent-controlled education, meaning that there is *no* governmental involvement whatsoever: no mandates, no "standards", no funding. Let every parents decide, and vote with his own money, how his child is to be reared. For those who need assistance, there are already hundreds of private scholarships for k12 students, and more will be forthcoming.
No pretended good resulting from government schooling balances the horrific costs they impose on teachers, taxpayers, and students and their families. Bureaucrats should not be in charge of raising your children.
Google "Alliance for the Separation of School and State" for more reasons to oppose governmental interference in education.
The best alternative is parent-controlled education, meaning that there is *no* governmental involvement whatsoever: no mandates, no "standards", no funding. Let every parents decide, and vote with his own money, how his child is to be reared. For those who need assistance, there are already hundreds of private scholarships for k12 students, and more will be forthcoming.
No pretended good resulting from government schooling balances the horrific costs they impose on teachers, taxpayers, and students and their families. Bureaucrats should not be in charge of raising your children.
Google "Alliance for the Separation of School and State" for more reasons to oppose governmental interference in education.
Annie | 2:29 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
I think there is one thing we can all agree upon, ALL children need to be
educated and ALL children deserve the best education possible.
Public schools give MOST children the best education possible, but unfortunately not all. Those children who need special attention whether they are above or below the 'average kid' do not get the best education in the public schools. These kids deserve the best education too.
Vouchers would allow ALL students to receive an education that is best suited for them, whether it be in a public, private or charter school.
I believe that ALL children deserve the best education, which is why I'm voting for Referendum 1.
Public schools give MOST children the best education possible, but unfortunately not all. Those children who need special attention whether they are above or below the 'average kid' do not get the best education in the public schools. These kids deserve the best education too.
Vouchers would allow ALL students to receive an education that is best suited for them, whether it be in a public, private or charter school.
I believe that ALL children deserve the best education, which is why I'm voting for Referendum 1.
M.Ed | 2:44 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Public schools are required to take any and all students. Public schools are
expected to educate any and all students regardless of learning ability or
disability, regardless of language challenges. And are expected to have students
perform, reaching AYP and NCLB standards, without exception.
Private schools can be selective in who they take. So who will be left at public schools? The most challenging and expensive to educate. How can this help all children?
Private schools can be selective in who they take. So who will be left at public schools? The most challenging and expensive to educate. How can this help all children?
SRD | 3:21 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
I keep hearing that the average amount spent on per child in the state of Utah
is $7,500. Where does this figure come from? I have seen other reports that
put the figure at about $5,200 per student. Just a questions???
Annie | 4:16 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Why would a student who is performing well in a public school decide to leave?
There would be no reason. Choosing to go to a private school in a huge
sacrifice. Parents must provide transportation, uniforms, and likely volunteer
for hundreds of hours.
It is those kids who come home dissatisfied with school, whom the system is failing that will choose to make such a sacrifice.
Children First Utah, a privately funded scholarship program for K-12 private education proves that parents will make such a sacrifice.
It is those kids who come home dissatisfied with school, whom the system is failing that will choose to make such a sacrifice.
Children First Utah, a privately funded scholarship program for K-12 private education proves that parents will make such a sacrifice.
Craig | 4:21 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
To SRD, you're just looking at the old #'s. They just went up in the
last 1-2 years.
Tre | 4:41 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Vouchers do not put more money into the public ed system. Voucher money comes
from the general fund. If a student leaves private school and enters public
school after October 1st, the public school receives ZERO funding for this
student. Repeat, ZERO funding. How is this more money for public ed? The
teacher to student ratio is called the FTE. If the number of students in a
school is reduced, so is the number of teachers. Fewer teachers equal larger
class sizes. A school could have empty classrooms, but because of the FTE have
35 students in each class. Vouchers help 2-5% of our children. Public ed helps
95-98% of our children. Where should the funding be focuse? Public ed.
Parents do, and have always had, a choice in their child's education:
private, public, charter (public), home schooling, Carson Smith Scholarship
(special needs). There are multiple choices within the public ed system other
than just charter schools. Public money should pay for public education, not
private schools.
SRD | 5:22 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Ok, where do you find the most current figures??
What about the fringe students? | 5:29 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
TO M.ED: You say that 'Public schools are expected to educate any/all
students regardless of learning ability or disability ..."
The thing is THEY DON'T! My son needed an IEP and if he struggled with something, they CUT his requirements in half but continue to pressure him to meet the 'end of the term' goals. These kids are being smashed between the PublicSchools inability to address his needs and the pressure to 'leave no child behind'.
He learning suffered & for years he got dragged behind the rambling truck called �Public Schools� � and got angry, rebellious and finally just gave up � despite his teachers/my every effort. But the teachers were limited in what they could do because of their work load. The PublicSchools are maxed � and change would be to slow � that would take years.
These kids need somewhere to go NOW where they can get their education. Kids aren�t DUMB, but the standard way of teaching or the special programs created just isn't doing it for everyone. Give our kids a CHANCE and let them get an education. Let us send our kids to a school with a teaching method that will teach them!
The thing is THEY DON'T! My son needed an IEP and if he struggled with something, they CUT his requirements in half but continue to pressure him to meet the 'end of the term' goals. These kids are being smashed between the PublicSchools inability to address his needs and the pressure to 'leave no child behind'.
He learning suffered & for years he got dragged behind the rambling truck called �Public Schools� � and got angry, rebellious and finally just gave up � despite his teachers/my every effort. But the teachers were limited in what they could do because of their work load. The PublicSchools are maxed � and change would be to slow � that would take years.
These kids need somewhere to go NOW where they can get their education. Kids aren�t DUMB, but the standard way of teaching or the special programs created just isn't doing it for everyone. Give our kids a CHANCE and let them get an education. Let us send our kids to a school with a teaching method that will teach them!
diversity of education | 7:04 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Every child needs as many tools for success as s/he can get. Parents, teachers,
choice, vouchers, charter, private, open enrollment, smaller districts, those
are all part of the diverse array of learning tools that should be made
available to our children. It's impossible for ONE way to be so much better
than everything else that it meets EVERY student's need ALL the time.
Vouchers are just one more tool that can be used to ensure that as many kids as
possible are allowed the best education possible.
I'm still just cringing at the FEAR tactics being used by the voucher opponents(teacher's unions). WHy on earth is the NEA spending 1.5 million dollars, that come from teacher "dues" to fight something that will help children. Like taxpayer money said, "They're looking out for #1."
I'm still just cringing at the FEAR tactics being used by the voucher opponents(teacher's unions). WHy on earth is the NEA spending 1.5 million dollars, that come from teacher "dues" to fight something that will help children. Like taxpayer money said, "They're looking out for #1."
BlooJaguar | 7:18 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Two things:
1) Note to Deseret News: The headline of this article makes no sense. Eyre is not a "voucher foe".
2) Eyre is kidding himself if he believes most teachers favor vouchers. Vouchers are simply an entitlement program for people who are planning to enroll their kids in private schools anyway. We can't think of vouchers in the short-term. Thirteen years from now, every child in every voucher-accepting private school will receive one, regardless of need. This will balloon into an incredibly expensive program. The same people who complain we are giving all we can to public education suddenly have over $400 million dollars for this? It is simply ridiculous for the state spending the least per pupil to institute the most free-wheeling voucher program in the country. Let another state be the guinea pig for the out-of-state interest groups that pushed vouchers in the first place.
1) Note to Deseret News: The headline of this article makes no sense. Eyre is not a "voucher foe".
2) Eyre is kidding himself if he believes most teachers favor vouchers. Vouchers are simply an entitlement program for people who are planning to enroll their kids in private schools anyway. We can't think of vouchers in the short-term. Thirteen years from now, every child in every voucher-accepting private school will receive one, regardless of need. This will balloon into an incredibly expensive program. The same people who complain we are giving all we can to public education suddenly have over $400 million dollars for this? It is simply ridiculous for the state spending the least per pupil to institute the most free-wheeling voucher program in the country. Let another state be the guinea pig for the out-of-state interest groups that pushed vouchers in the first place.
AB | 8:15 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
I'm voting for vouchers. Public education is sick. Competition is the
cure. Many years ago I attended Rowland Hall St. Marks for two years (5th and
6th grade). It was tough. I had to work. The homework was PILED on. Two to
three hours a night. Sometimes more. Getting a "B" really meant
something. Getting an "A" was excellent indeed.
Then my family moved and I went back to public schools. I drifted along without much challenge for four years. Then, in 10th grade at Weber High, in Ogden, I was issued the same textbook I used in sixth grade English at Rowland Hall. It was quite a thrill to know that if I stayed the course and completed tenth grade English, I�d move to new and more challenging curriculum as a junior.
Somehow RHSM manages to push its students toward excellence with its "uncertified" teachers who (at that time) didn't make as much as their public school counterparts. Advocates of public schools whine that private schools don't need to meet the same testing levels as public schools. Maybe when public schools finally begin turning out better prepared students than private schools the whimpering about who has to take a test will end.
Vouchers are only a first step. Eventually, any parent should be able to take a voucher and child to any school, public or private, and apply it� if they can get in.
When that happens, public schools will finally be cured of the communist collective mentality that currently ruins their results. They may even point proudly to their test as proof they are doing well.
Then my family moved and I went back to public schools. I drifted along without much challenge for four years. Then, in 10th grade at Weber High, in Ogden, I was issued the same textbook I used in sixth grade English at Rowland Hall. It was quite a thrill to know that if I stayed the course and completed tenth grade English, I�d move to new and more challenging curriculum as a junior.
Somehow RHSM manages to push its students toward excellence with its "uncertified" teachers who (at that time) didn't make as much as their public school counterparts. Advocates of public schools whine that private schools don't need to meet the same testing levels as public schools. Maybe when public schools finally begin turning out better prepared students than private schools the whimpering about who has to take a test will end.
Vouchers are only a first step. Eventually, any parent should be able to take a voucher and child to any school, public or private, and apply it� if they can get in.
When that happens, public schools will finally be cured of the communist collective mentality that currently ruins their results. They may even point proudly to their test as proof they are doing well.
Concerned Citizen | 10:33 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
The truth is that the UEA Teachers Union simply doesn't want their teachers
to hear the truth. They'd rather feed them koolaid and tell them how to
vote. I'm sitting here with proof in my hands; an anti-voucher flier
placed in a teacher's box at school. If you're a teacher in a public
school, you probably know what I'm talking about. It says, "Take the
ouch out of vouchers and turn your school green." It then asks you for a
$10 contribution to Utahns for Public Schools "aka front group for the
NEA" and in return you'll receive a anti-voucher wristband. It then
tells you to Vote Aganist Referendum 1. Utahns need to be more aware of the
power of the union. Their job is to serve and protect its members. Last time I
checked none of their members were children. What a shame that our educators
are advocating not being educated! And by the way, the UEA and NEA are one in
the same. Pat Rusk, previous UEA President, said exactly that. She said,
"the UEA is the NEA."
diversity of education | 11:46 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Every child needs as many tools for success as s/he can get. Parents, teachers,
choice, vouchers, charter, private, open enrollment, smaller districts, those
are all part of the diverse array of learning tools that should be made
available to our children. It's impossible for ONE way to be so much better
than everything else that it meets EVERY student's need ALL the time.
Vouchers are just one more tool that can be used to ensure that as many kids as
possible are allowed the best education possible.
I'm still just cringing at the FEAR tactics being used by the voucher opponents(teacher's unions). WHy on earth is the NEA spending 1.5 million dollars, that come from teacher "dues" to fight something that will help children. Like taxpayer money said, "They're looking out for #1."
I'm still just cringing at the FEAR tactics being used by the voucher opponents(teacher's unions). WHy on earth is the NEA spending 1.5 million dollars, that come from teacher "dues" to fight something that will help children. Like taxpayer money said, "They're looking out for #1."
K | 11:46 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007
Jim, Where do you think the money for the vouchers will come from, thin air?
There will be an impact on public school funds if the bill passes.
Craig, Obviously you've never worked with troubled children included in a class of 28 other children. I personally know of two children which a charter school "recommended" that they would be better served in a public school. One had special needs, one had severe behavior problems. Many private schools may not be equipped to work with such children, unless that is their particular focus. These children do get the best education possible in public schools.
In general: Searching history to infer a precedent for a voucher system is nothing more than a political move to play on religious affiliations. Inform yourselves about the current issues, not what someone says that someone else thought 150 years ago.
Craig, Obviously you've never worked with troubled children included in a class of 28 other children. I personally know of two children which a charter school "recommended" that they would be better served in a public school. One had special needs, one had severe behavior problems. Many private schools may not be equipped to work with such children, unless that is their particular focus. These children do get the best education possible in public schools.
In general: Searching history to infer a precedent for a voucher system is nothing more than a political move to play on religious affiliations. Inform yourselves about the current issues, not what someone says that someone else thought 150 years ago.
To K | 5:42 p.m. Sept. 19, 2007
"unless that is their particular focus"
Exactly. The parents of these two students were apparently disappointed in the public schools. That's why they were in charter to begin with.
I f the could go to a private school that focused on their particular needs, perhaps they would receive a good education, too.
Exactly. The parents of these two students were apparently disappointed in the public schools. That's why they were in charter to begin with.
I f the could go to a private school that focused on their particular needs, perhaps they would receive a good education, too.
Charter IS public | 7:39 a.m. Sept. 20, 2007
Remember.........Charter schools ARE public schools, NOT private.
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