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Pres. Hinckley gets citizen award
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bill | 4:55 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Pres gOrdan B Hinkley is teh Awesome!!!1!!
MickisDaddy | 5:16 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Citizen9347,
If you don't want to read "biased" articles about the LDS church then don't read a newspaper (or a newspaper's website) that is owned by the LDS church.
If you don't want to read "biased" articles about the LDS church then don't read a newspaper (or a newspaper's website) that is owned by the LDS church.
Concerned | 5:33 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
What would have been acceptable would have been for Pres. Hinckley to go to
Mountain Meadows and accept responsibility for the church's actions in the
massacre in the same manner as the state of Illinois did in 2004 and the state
of Missouri did in 1976.
The decent thing to do would be for the LDS church to convey the site of the massacre to the federal government of an association of the descendants in order to permit them to tell their story - in the same way the LDS church does in Liberty, Nauvoo and Carthage.
However, Hinckley made a decision not to attend, not to accept responsibility and not to convey the land.
The decent thing to do would be for the LDS church to convey the site of the massacre to the federal government of an association of the descendants in order to permit them to tell their story - in the same way the LDS church does in Liberty, Nauvoo and Carthage.
However, Hinckley made a decision not to attend, not to accept responsibility and not to convey the land.
Comments continue below
Buzzard | 6:25 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Concerned: The MMM issue has been worked over quite a bit the last few days. If
Pres. Hinkley would have gone and spoken, you would have found his words lacking
in some way almost no matter what he said. If he would have read a message
dictated by the descendants groups, giving them everything you wanted, then you
would have called for reperations in the billions.
Finally, the church has owned that land for decades. It is private property, and they would be within their rights to deny entrance to anyone, instead of placing a memorial marker, building a parking area, and contructing a trail between the two.
Has is occured to you that part of the reason the church wants to maintain control of this site has to do with folks like you? If those with an ax to grind could "tell their story", what would they say? And would it be evenhanded or vitriolic? I think you know the answer.
The LDS church may be a lot of things, but it is not suicidal enough to turn over it's property to those who would defame.
Finally, the church has owned that land for decades. It is private property, and they would be within their rights to deny entrance to anyone, instead of placing a memorial marker, building a parking area, and contructing a trail between the two.
Has is occured to you that part of the reason the church wants to maintain control of this site has to do with folks like you? If those with an ax to grind could "tell their story", what would they say? And would it be evenhanded or vitriolic? I think you know the answer.
The LDS church may be a lot of things, but it is not suicidal enough to turn over it's property to those who would defame.
Anonymous | 6:30 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
where the love people Holy moly, Really. I though this is about a great
achivement in a great Prophet of the Lord, For what he has done not just for the
City,nor the State but for the Wrold By What that is Being An Exmaple to the
World. that the spirit of severing your fellow man is what is Important at any
age in life.
but i do recall more than 21 for thee biggrest planes in the world taking of from HILL AFB sent from the LDS church to help the aid of those in the tusiumi. How do i know that its was in the paper and it shock the heck out of building, homes, car,... etc when i was there wahcting them take off Then the aid before Red Cross was ther in the aid of florida for Hurrican Andrews wearing the yellow shirts and many more I can list
but this is about The prophet of the Lord, Gorden. B. Hinckley Holyness to the Lord way to lead by exmaple by word and deed Hats off to the Prophet
but i do recall more than 21 for thee biggrest planes in the world taking of from HILL AFB sent from the LDS church to help the aid of those in the tusiumi. How do i know that its was in the paper and it shock the heck out of building, homes, car,... etc when i was there wahcting them take off Then the aid before Red Cross was ther in the aid of florida for Hurrican Andrews wearing the yellow shirts and many more I can list
but this is about The prophet of the Lord, Gorden. B. Hinckley Holyness to the Lord way to lead by exmaple by word and deed Hats off to the Prophet
tvb | 6:37 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Concerned,
I'd like to see YOU attend every single event when you're 97 years old!!! Oh wait...you'll probably be DEAD!! Sheesh, give the man a break. It's amazing what he IS doing right now let-alone attending a ceremony for a tradgedy that occured 150 years ago. Be grateful he sent someone at all. Props to GBH...97 years and still serving! Dude, when i'm 65 I hope to be sipping margarita's in Hawaii. The man is AMAZING!!
I'd like to see YOU attend every single event when you're 97 years old!!! Oh wait...you'll probably be DEAD!! Sheesh, give the man a break. It's amazing what he IS doing right now let-alone attending a ceremony for a tradgedy that occured 150 years ago. Be grateful he sent someone at all. Props to GBH...97 years and still serving! Dude, when i'm 65 I hope to be sipping margarita's in Hawaii. The man is AMAZING!!
Buzzard | 6:40 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Buzzard:
If the LDS church is able to own and tell its version of history at places like Carthage and Liberty, should the descendants of the Faucher party not have the same opportunity?
And why doesn't the LDS church simply apologize without having to place blame on some misguided locals all the while protecting Brigham Young?
It seems pretty straight forward to me. Or do you have an ax to grind with Faucher descendants?
If the LDS church is able to own and tell its version of history at places like Carthage and Liberty, should the descendants of the Faucher party not have the same opportunity?
And why doesn't the LDS church simply apologize without having to place blame on some misguided locals all the while protecting Brigham Young?
It seems pretty straight forward to me. Or do you have an ax to grind with Faucher descendants?
Red Cross | 6:46 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
A couple of points to rebut some strange misconceptions:
1) The church is a major contributor to the Red Cross (in addition to Catholic and Muslim groups).
2) The church and its members likely participated behind the scenes after the cameras left in the flood cleanup someone mentioned.
3) With respect to the MMM, many of the offended will not be pacified until the church says Brigham Young ordered it. We don't believe he did. Why apologize for something you don't believe happened?
4) Should the U.S. Government apologize for the OK City bombing since McVeigh was a citizen? Not just a citizen, but a veteran no less.
5) I am not aware that the government has expressed any interest in taking over the MMM site. With national parks already being dramatically underfunded, where is the money going to come from?
6) Is it possible that the church is concerned that turning over the property will result in the site being changed into a forum for the offended to make unfounded criticisms against the church? I'm concerned about that myself.
1) The church is a major contributor to the Red Cross (in addition to Catholic and Muslim groups).
2) The church and its members likely participated behind the scenes after the cameras left in the flood cleanup someone mentioned.
3) With respect to the MMM, many of the offended will not be pacified until the church says Brigham Young ordered it. We don't believe he did. Why apologize for something you don't believe happened?
4) Should the U.S. Government apologize for the OK City bombing since McVeigh was a citizen? Not just a citizen, but a veteran no less.
5) I am not aware that the government has expressed any interest in taking over the MMM site. With national parks already being dramatically underfunded, where is the money going to come from?
6) Is it possible that the church is concerned that turning over the property will result in the site being changed into a forum for the offended to make unfounded criticisms against the church? I'm concerned about that myself.
Spencer W. Morgan | 6:55 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Huntsman was a war criminal.
Spencer W. Morgan | 7:00 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
"4) Should the U.S. Government apologize for the OK City bombing since
McVeigh was a citizen? Not just a citizen, but a veteran no less."
Yes, but that's not why. Ask SLC attorney Jesse Trenadue.
Yes, but that's not why. Ask SLC attorney Jesse Trenadue.
An Example | 7:11 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
President Hinkley is awesome! I'm grateful for his teachings to be
tolerant, kind, charitable, humble, friendly, honest, hard-working, patient,
happy, etc. His words have influenced me to be a better man and to strive to
live as Christ would have me live. I'm thankful for his encouragement to
read the Bible, live it's teachings, pray to God, and be the best that I
can be.
Schraevus | 7:30 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Beneficence is not giving the money and time of others while simultaneously
enjoying a comfortable lifestyle based on the sacrifices of the same.
Jay | 7:45 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
If I am to convey praise on a man for Citizen of the Century, you gotta show me
what he's done. Many commenters here talk of the extensive charity work of
the Mormon church, to which I say, show me the money. With closed financial
records, you can't honestly say how much is going to charitable causes; and
more importantly you can't see what they spend for honorable causes vs.
businesses/buildings/marketing. The Mormons seemed to have fallen in line,
lockstep, with lavish praised heaped upon their award winning prophet. It's
no wonder people see cultish overtones in Mormonism, when many people are just
happy to agree with any favorable honors, without any thought given to A)What
should qualify as a citizen of the centry and B)Who actually fits the bill.
Now GBH may be a kind, decent man, but I have seen nothing to indicate exemplary citizenship......unless of course you consider constructing buildings (that provide no service to the general public) good citizenry.
Now GBH may be a kind, decent man, but I have seen nothing to indicate exemplary citizenship......unless of course you consider constructing buildings (that provide no service to the general public) good citizenry.
Marzipan | 8:05 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Anonymous said:
>that the spirit of severing your fellow man is >what is Important at any age in life.
GBH did, indeed, demonstrate his devotion to that spirit when he and the other GAs severed many of their fellow men (and women) from the Church for honest intellectual inquiry, as well as being gay or a feminist.
>that the spirit of severing your fellow man is >what is Important at any age in life.
GBH did, indeed, demonstrate his devotion to that spirit when he and the other GAs severed many of their fellow men (and women) from the Church for honest intellectual inquiry, as well as being gay or a feminist.
Punky | 8:10 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
The Mormon Church *did NOT* participate in the flood clean up "behind the
scenes." They did not participate at all. They set up a trailer with
buckets and bleach that they could not give away (because bleach doesn't
help when your home has washed away and anything you might have left is covered
with oil). Mormons sat there for a couple of days with buckets no one wanted.
And then they left. The did not volunteer with the Red Cross.
Other churches did the lion's share of the recovery work. The Red Cross coordinated with the local Ministerial Alliance, with which the Mormons refuse to participate.
There are no figures to suggest that the Mormon church is a "major" or "significant" contributor to the Red Cross.
Mormon propaganda about their "enormous" humanitarian efforts is out of proportion to what they actually provide.
Other churches did the lion's share of the recovery work. The Red Cross coordinated with the local Ministerial Alliance, with which the Mormons refuse to participate.
There are no figures to suggest that the Mormon church is a "major" or "significant" contributor to the Red Cross.
Mormon propaganda about their "enormous" humanitarian efforts is out of proportion to what they actually provide.
Gator | 8:42 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
For those who dont think the church really does anything
DENVER, Colorado 28 August 2007 Reporter Electa Draper visited a Church-owned cannery in Aurora, Colorado, that dispenses everything from pudding to job-hunting advice for laid-off corporate executives.
In her report for the DenverPost, Draper notes that the Church�s aid program goes well beyond caring only for its own members. It also feeds a global humanitarian aid program.
The report describes the Church�s network of 751 storehouses, canneries, thrift stores, family-services providers and employment and literacy centers which serve 13 million members worldwide.
"Many churches have a lot of programs, but the comprehensive nature of what they're doing is unique," said Jan Shipps, an emeritus professor of religion at Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis.
Welfare needs often spill over to humanitarian needs. Between 1985 and 2006, the Church donated cash of more than $201 million and goods of more than $705 million in disaster relief to 163 countries.
The Church requires members to fast once a month and give the money they would have spent on meals to the Church�s welfare program. Members also pay 10 percent of their income as a tithe, which primarily funds its worldwide operations.
DENVER, Colorado 28 August 2007 Reporter Electa Draper visited a Church-owned cannery in Aurora, Colorado, that dispenses everything from pudding to job-hunting advice for laid-off corporate executives.
In her report for the DenverPost, Draper notes that the Church�s aid program goes well beyond caring only for its own members. It also feeds a global humanitarian aid program.
The report describes the Church�s network of 751 storehouses, canneries, thrift stores, family-services providers and employment and literacy centers which serve 13 million members worldwide.
"Many churches have a lot of programs, but the comprehensive nature of what they're doing is unique," said Jan Shipps, an emeritus professor of religion at Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis.
Welfare needs often spill over to humanitarian needs. Between 1985 and 2006, the Church donated cash of more than $201 million and goods of more than $705 million in disaster relief to 163 countries.
The Church requires members to fast once a month and give the money they would have spent on meals to the Church�s welfare program. Members also pay 10 percent of their income as a tithe, which primarily funds its worldwide operations.
Suzy L | 8:54 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Hey Red Cross
You said:
"6) Is it possible that the church is concerned that turning over the property will result in the site being changed into a forum for the offended to make unfounded criticisms against the church?"
Lets say that another way:
Turning over the Carthage Jail will result in the site being changed into a forum for the offended . . .
You said:
"6) Is it possible that the church is concerned that turning over the property will result in the site being changed into a forum for the offended to make unfounded criticisms against the church?"
Lets say that another way:
Turning over the Carthage Jail will result in the site being changed into a forum for the offended . . .
Homer J | 9:44 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
To Gator
According to your figures, the church donated approx. $900 million (of tithepayers money) to humanitarian relief from 1985 to 2006. Can you tell me what percentage of total church income that comes out to for those 20 years? Is it even 5%? For a church concerned about the welfare of humanity that's a pretty small chunk.
According to your figures, the church donated approx. $900 million (of tithepayers money) to humanitarian relief from 1985 to 2006. Can you tell me what percentage of total church income that comes out to for those 20 years? Is it even 5%? For a church concerned about the welfare of humanity that's a pretty small chunk.
To Punky: | 9:53 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
"The Mormon Church *did NOT* participate in the flood clean up "behind
the scenes." They did not participate at all."
-Well, I guess my good friend just sat there and picked his nose when he spent the summer down south with a group made up of LDS professionals (he's an architect) organized by the church to help rebuild. I better let him know he wasted his time.
-Well, I guess my good friend just sat there and picked his nose when he spent the summer down south with a group made up of LDS professionals (he's an architect) organized by the church to help rebuild. I better let him know he wasted his time.
Who "don't know"??? | 10:28 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize
it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I
don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that
statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I
don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot
about it."
Who "don't know"??? | 10:31 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
"I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man
is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a
couplet than anything else."
Who Does Know??? | 10:36 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
"That exalted position was made manifest to me at a very early day. I had a
direct revelation of this. It was most perfect and complete. If there ever was a
thing revealed to man perfectly, clearly, so that there could be no doubt or
dubiety, this was revealed to me, and it came in these words: "As man now
is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." This may appear to some minds
as something very strange and remarkable, but it is in perfect harmony with the
teachings of Jesus Christ and with His promises."
- Prophet Lorenzo R. Snow, Unchangeable Love of God, Sunday, September 18, 1898.
- Prophet Lorenzo R. Snow, Unchangeable Love of God, Sunday, September 18, 1898.
JusThinkin | 10:56 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Looks like Hinckley "don't know" much.
Couplet?...or...Doctrine?
Follow the prophet, follow the prophet.
When the prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done.
Couplet?...or...Doctrine?
Follow the prophet, follow the prophet.
When the prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done.
Enough already | 11:16 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
Thanks Gator, I guess that set the record straight. Get that Punky?
Hey Marzipan? Which category do you fall in to?
All of you bitter X-Mormons need to get a life. You should listen to yourselves, slamming a person for the good they do and judging whether the quality of their service. Non of you can look inside the heart of the man and decide whether he did it for the fight reason or for recognition. With GBH, I guarantee he didnt do it for the latter reason. Sounds like the typical born again christian position that they know who is saved or not. Give it up guys, and let go of the bitterness and hatred!
Hey Marzipan? Which category do you fall in to?
All of you bitter X-Mormons need to get a life. You should listen to yourselves, slamming a person for the good they do and judging whether the quality of their service. Non of you can look inside the heart of the man and decide whether he did it for the fight reason or for recognition. With GBH, I guarantee he didnt do it for the latter reason. Sounds like the typical born again christian position that they know who is saved or not. Give it up guys, and let go of the bitterness and hatred!
Doing good is bad? | 11:33 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007
To Homer J.
If he church wants to continue providing support throughout the world at the rate that it has in the past then they need to remain in a position to do so. I "willingly" donate my 10% knowing that they will use that money to build up the church and provide support where it is needed. And I think its a pretty good thing that they are able to donate, even if its "only 5%". I'd bet that if you were needy you'd appreciate the assistance. I think your bitterness has caused you to dig pretty deep to make a good thing seem bad.
If he church wants to continue providing support throughout the world at the rate that it has in the past then they need to remain in a position to do so. I "willingly" donate my 10% knowing that they will use that money to build up the church and provide support where it is needed. And I think its a pretty good thing that they are able to donate, even if its "only 5%". I'd bet that if you were needy you'd appreciate the assistance. I think your bitterness has caused you to dig pretty deep to make a good thing seem bad.
FD | 12:06 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
punky: I drove over 1200 one way from Ariz to Lake Charles LA to help with the
clean up after the hurricane went through. I worked many hours with my son who
along with his family from Utah. I had my chain saws and we cleared trees and
the like from peoples homes and lots. There was many LDS people working, wearing
their yellow shirtsfor several days. The local LDS church recreation hall was
full of goods, clothing etc. for people to take if they needed. There was no tv
cameras or news paper reporters but people from all over the country donating
their tine to help people in time of need. I Know that one area around Atlanta
who sent app.300 men to help. In Ohio this past few weeks when they had some bad
flooding the LDS church in the area was asked to coordinate ths cities cleanup
effort. So dont tell me that the LDS church just appeared and then left. Your
anti LDS bias has blinded you to what has been done by LDS members.
Homer J | 12:07 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
To Doing Good
Who says I'm bitter? Never assume. I just asked a pertinent question. If the church rakes in a billion or two a year and contributes 2 - 5% of that to actually helping people in some real way, then what are they doing with the other 95%? And why do they feel the need to let people know how benevolent they are. That sure seems like a lot of overhead and 2 - 5% for an organization that is supposed to care about the human condition isn't much to crow about. As to you, donate all you want. I'm sure they appreciate it so they can keep "the kingdom" afloat.
Who says I'm bitter? Never assume. I just asked a pertinent question. If the church rakes in a billion or two a year and contributes 2 - 5% of that to actually helping people in some real way, then what are they doing with the other 95%? And why do they feel the need to let people know how benevolent they are. That sure seems like a lot of overhead and 2 - 5% for an organization that is supposed to care about the human condition isn't much to crow about. As to you, donate all you want. I'm sure they appreciate it so they can keep "the kingdom" afloat.
Marzipan | 12:08 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Enough already said:
>Hey Marzipan? Which category do you fall in to?
They haven't excommunicated me, if that's what you are implying.
Enough already said:
>Non of you can look inside the heart of the man and decide whether he did it for the fight reason or for recognition. With GBH, I guarantee he didnt do it for the latter reason.
You are absolutely right. It was the fight reason, for sure. He's dedicated his whole life to fighting all those abominations like women wanting the priesthood (they are already the "most precious possessions", what else could they possibly want?), those scary same-sex couples wanting to get married and people who are able to stand up for their own positions instead of "aligning themselves" with every motion the First Presidency makes.
You guys are saying it all for me.
>Hey Marzipan? Which category do you fall in to?
They haven't excommunicated me, if that's what you are implying.
Enough already said:
>Non of you can look inside the heart of the man and decide whether he did it for the fight reason or for recognition. With GBH, I guarantee he didnt do it for the latter reason.
You are absolutely right. It was the fight reason, for sure. He's dedicated his whole life to fighting all those abominations like women wanting the priesthood (they are already the "most precious possessions", what else could they possibly want?), those scary same-sex couples wanting to get married and people who are able to stand up for their own positions instead of "aligning themselves" with every motion the First Presidency makes.
You guys are saying it all for me.
prophetlover | 12:12 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
I love everything about the prophet Gorden B. Hinckley!!! I know that everything
that he says is the word of God and is completely true. I don't know how
anyone else can see it differently. I will do anything he says because I know
with all my heart that it is the right thing to do.
Andy in the Desert | 12:23 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Wow!
I choose not to enter the fray of poorly researched information on all sides of the pointless debate occuring on most of the posts. I simply want to encourage everyone on all sides to become municipal citizens of the year. You don't need a title to be a leader, only a desire to lead.
There is way too much violent crime, theft, graffiti, weeds, trash and other social ills to waste time debating whether Mormons are a cult or President Hinckley is a Prophet. If he is the leader his supporters claim he is, he would want us all to stop the hateful debate, pull together, and make a difference in the world.
Religious leaders have a forum to encourage good behavior. Whether it is Mohammad, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther, the Pope or President Hinckley their message has been the same for thousands of years: do unto others as you would have them do unto you or something very similar to the golden rule.
Enough already...take the energy it takes to be hateful and put it to good use making your community a better place. Let's all be citizens of the year whether we get a plaque for it or not.
I choose not to enter the fray of poorly researched information on all sides of the pointless debate occuring on most of the posts. I simply want to encourage everyone on all sides to become municipal citizens of the year. You don't need a title to be a leader, only a desire to lead.
There is way too much violent crime, theft, graffiti, weeds, trash and other social ills to waste time debating whether Mormons are a cult or President Hinckley is a Prophet. If he is the leader his supporters claim he is, he would want us all to stop the hateful debate, pull together, and make a difference in the world.
Religious leaders have a forum to encourage good behavior. Whether it is Mohammad, Jesus, Moses, Martin Luther, the Pope or President Hinckley their message has been the same for thousands of years: do unto others as you would have them do unto you or something very similar to the golden rule.
Enough already...take the energy it takes to be hateful and put it to good use making your community a better place. Let's all be citizens of the year whether we get a plaque for it or not.
Rose | 12:27 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Didn't President Hinckley attend and make a speech at Mountain Meadows last
year?
Reflecting | 12:56 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Thanks Andy in the Desert.
Craig | 6:05 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
To Punky: The beautiful thing about a private charity (like the Church of Jesus
Christ) is that if you are not satisfied with what they do with your money in
terms of charity, you can take it elsewhere. Unlike government welfare which I
see abuse my tax money on all kinds of things (since I work in a pharmacy-I see
it all the time). I can't take that money elsewhere to another
organization like the Red Cross or United Way or my church. So the point
I'm trying to make, is if you are not satisfied with the money you gave to
the Mormon church for Humanitarian Aid, then take it to your church or give it
to United Way. That is the best way to fix a charity, and that is why private
charity is far better at using your money. They have to compete for your
dollar. Unlike the government who gets it anyway no matter how worthless they
are at using it. My point to you is you can quit whining, the best influence
you have is to take your dollar elsewhere. Why don't you tell us about the
charity/ church you donate to and show us it is far superior to ours, and maybe
we'll follow you there. Don't tell us how little our charity is
doing, show us how much your charity (sounds like Red Cross) maybe, and we can
decide for ourselves if we think that is better.
rtl | 6:49 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Gee, Alan, would that be you???
Punky | 7:06 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
I know pretty much everyone who helped (and continue to help) with flood
recovery in my town. None of them are Mormon. No Mormons have driven in to
rebuild.
Only the Red Cross, and an alliance of local churches that includes every local faith community *except* the LDS church have provided assistance. This includes sister congregations from other states that have brought in truck loads of donated items, Mennonites that have helped with repairs, and donations from schools all over the state for local children have been sent.
All the Mormons brought were bleach and small buckets. Local people called around to see if anyone could use them. Very few did.
I'm glad there are two Mormons out there helping with flood recovery. But it is improbable that there is a secret crack force of Mormon volunteers or Mormon donations providing a bulk of the aid to disaster victims. This is inaccurate propaganda.
Only the Red Cross, and an alliance of local churches that includes every local faith community *except* the LDS church have provided assistance. This includes sister congregations from other states that have brought in truck loads of donated items, Mennonites that have helped with repairs, and donations from schools all over the state for local children have been sent.
All the Mormons brought were bleach and small buckets. Local people called around to see if anyone could use them. Very few did.
I'm glad there are two Mormons out there helping with flood recovery. But it is improbable that there is a secret crack force of Mormon volunteers or Mormon donations providing a bulk of the aid to disaster victims. This is inaccurate propaganda.
Anonymous | 7:11 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Isn't this country GREAT! Anyone can say anything about anyone or any
group be it true, false, slander or just plain ridiculous. Congratulations to
many of you who have exercised your right to freedom of speech and voiced your
opinions regarding Gordon B. Hickley, the LDS Church, the Church's
finances, their Humanitarian Aid and many other things. I just don't have
time in my life to cut down, knock down or slander a group of people that do so
much for so many inside and outside their own church. Nor do I have time to
even respond to each negative or demeaning comment on this board. Live each day
people as if it is your last. I don't think the last thing you would want
to say in this life would be negative about anything. Be Happy! Do what you
can for your fellowman to ease each others burdens and live a full happy life
without malice. I for one wish there were more good men like Gordon B. Hinckley
in this world. It would be a much nicer place.
Spirit Chi | 8:47 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Craig said "To Punky: The beautiful thing about a private charity (like the
Church of Jesus Christ) is that if you are not satisfied with what they do with
your money in terms of charity, you can take it elsewhere."
Try telling your bishop next time that you would like to donate your charity/tithing money to something other than the church and see if he accepts your decision before making statements like this. Many of us have received chastizement for even having such thoughts.
For all others who are giving Punky a hard time because they helped or new someone from the church who helped out with relief efforts in Louisana after hurricane Katrina here is what she had to say in her first post, "I *do* know that a few months ago, when 1/3 of my town was destroyed in a flood, LDS humanitarian services were there. They didn't provide much, or stay around a long time. But they made it a point to be visible. In comparison with all other organizations, their contribution to recovery and assistance efforts was so insignificant that it was not recogize by any local leaders."
To my knowledge hurricane Katrina did not happen a few months ago so your comments to her are irrelevant to her experienced situation.
Try telling your bishop next time that you would like to donate your charity/tithing money to something other than the church and see if he accepts your decision before making statements like this. Many of us have received chastizement for even having such thoughts.
For all others who are giving Punky a hard time because they helped or new someone from the church who helped out with relief efforts in Louisana after hurricane Katrina here is what she had to say in her first post, "I *do* know that a few months ago, when 1/3 of my town was destroyed in a flood, LDS humanitarian services were there. They didn't provide much, or stay around a long time. But they made it a point to be visible. In comparison with all other organizations, their contribution to recovery and assistance efforts was so insignificant that it was not recogize by any local leaders."
To my knowledge hurricane Katrina did not happen a few months ago so your comments to her are irrelevant to her experienced situation.
Grateful for the opportunity | 9:37 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
This was an awe inspiring event. From beginning to end, we were edified and
uplifted. I was in tears as the Tabernacle Choir sang "Danny Boy" and
"The Battle Hymn of the Republic" Thank you Tabernacle Choir.
Bishop Wester's prayer ascended to heaven.Thank you Bishop Wester.
David McCullough was amazing, he reminded us that "History is about consequences, the consequences of actions. It's about faith, and human nature." Thank you David McCullough.
President Hinckley blessed us with his presence, his example and his love.Thank you Dear Prophet. Thank you, thank you, thank you, to the Utah League of Cities and Towns.
You have exemplified President Hinckley's qoute:"The Leader must have appreciation and respect for all people while at the same time giving special nurture and concern to the institution and its people for whom he has an immediate and particular responsibility."
Thank you for your concern and for nurturing all who chose to partake.
For the readers, it is my hope and prayer that similar opportunites can come to each of you and that you will seek them out and embrace them for what they are. A gift from God.
Bishop Wester's prayer ascended to heaven.Thank you Bishop Wester.
David McCullough was amazing, he reminded us that "History is about consequences, the consequences of actions. It's about faith, and human nature." Thank you David McCullough.
President Hinckley blessed us with his presence, his example and his love.Thank you Dear Prophet. Thank you, thank you, thank you, to the Utah League of Cities and Towns.
You have exemplified President Hinckley's qoute:"The Leader must have appreciation and respect for all people while at the same time giving special nurture and concern to the institution and its people for whom he has an immediate and particular responsibility."
Thank you for your concern and for nurturing all who chose to partake.
For the readers, it is my hope and prayer that similar opportunites can come to each of you and that you will seek them out and embrace them for what they are. A gift from God.
Punky | 10:08 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
To Craig: No one can know if they are satisfied with the charitable use of
Mormon tithing money because the Mormon church does not disclose how that money
is used (unlike the government or any other major charity, such as the Red
Cross).
I'm not clear on how my personal account of limited disaster relief assistance from Mormons is "whining." I pointed out that the evidence for "enormous" humanitarian aid by the Mormon church (either in terms of volunteer hours, fiscal contributions, or effectiveness of intervention) is lacking. I pointed this out because it seems that people have perceptions of Mormon humanitarian aid that are inconsistent with what is actually provided.
It's okay with me if you are proud of how your church disperses aid and choose to continue to donate money for those efforts. A couple of folks in my community managed to stock their pantries with plenty of free bleach thanks to the Mormons (they weren't flood victims, but the bleach will be put to good use, I'm sure).
I'm not clear on how my personal account of limited disaster relief assistance from Mormons is "whining." I pointed out that the evidence for "enormous" humanitarian aid by the Mormon church (either in terms of volunteer hours, fiscal contributions, or effectiveness of intervention) is lacking. I pointed this out because it seems that people have perceptions of Mormon humanitarian aid that are inconsistent with what is actually provided.
It's okay with me if you are proud of how your church disperses aid and choose to continue to donate money for those efforts. A couple of folks in my community managed to stock their pantries with plenty of free bleach thanks to the Mormons (they weren't flood victims, but the bleach will be put to good use, I'm sure).
Whatever | 11:00 a.m. Sept. 14, 2007
What exactly has Gordon Hinckley done besides lead a multi-billion dollar
corporation? Might as well honor the CEO of Walmart.
What is your town? | 12:05 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Okay, Punky. You've shown your 'evidence'. What town are you
from? Give the name of your town and let the other guys have a chance to say
'yes the church went there, here is the proof,' or say, 'nope,
the church didn't do anything there.'
So give the name of your town.
By the way, how many areas did that hurricane destroy? I suppose if you didn't cover every square inch, you didn't participate at all.
So give the name of your town.
By the way, how many areas did that hurricane destroy? I suppose if you didn't cover every square inch, you didn't participate at all.
Salvador Dali | 4:24 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Our most beloved Prophet, even President Gordon Bitner Hinckley, is verily a man
of God and a man of the people--a man worthy of this great honor and tribute not
only from the cities of Utah but all the cities of the whole earth. I sincerely
hope and pray that just as we sing "Praise to the Man" now in honor of
our first Prophet, even Joseph Smith, Jr, that we will add a verse to that
magnificent hymn and sing in honor of Gordon B. Hinckley, the man who is doing
more than any other person alive for the salvation of the human family today and
for the alleviation of pain and suffering around the world. His marvelous
revelations that have poured forth serve as solace to the righteous and a
warning to the wicked in these latter days. May his name be praised. To those
who criticize him--know this that the day of reckoning is soon at hand when all
will know that he is the Lord's Prophet and sole holder of the keys of the
kingdom.
rain-mom | 4:50 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
To: Rose Mr. Hinckley spoke at the monument dedication in 1999, after the
bones were dug up.
To: An Example My parents taught me to be tolerant, kind, charitable, humble, friendly, honest, hard-working, patient, happy, etc. What does Mr. Hinckly actually do?
To: Enough Already You say that YOU can see into the heart of Mr. Hinckley but "non(sic) of YOU (emphasis mine) can see into the heart of a man.." What do you mean by this comment?
To: Craig If you transfer your 10% donation to another charity can you still receive a temple recommend in order to be with your family for all eternity. I sure hope so!!
My tax dollars are "abused" by the Utah school system. I actually only gave birth to ONE of the MANY children I have paid to educate. Go figure.
To: Praise to the man Do you have any detailed information regarding charitable contribution dollars to Fast Offering and Perpetual Education programs? I have some charitable contribution information to report. In the UK, churches are required by law to report their charitable statistics. In the year 2005 contributions to the LDS church totalled 29 million pounds. Staff expenses totaled 9 million pounds. Charitable donations totaled 340,000 pounds. Very odd.
To: An Example My parents taught me to be tolerant, kind, charitable, humble, friendly, honest, hard-working, patient, happy, etc. What does Mr. Hinckly actually do?
To: Enough Already You say that YOU can see into the heart of Mr. Hinckley but "non(sic) of YOU (emphasis mine) can see into the heart of a man.." What do you mean by this comment?
To: Craig If you transfer your 10% donation to another charity can you still receive a temple recommend in order to be with your family for all eternity. I sure hope so!!
My tax dollars are "abused" by the Utah school system. I actually only gave birth to ONE of the MANY children I have paid to educate. Go figure.
To: Praise to the man Do you have any detailed information regarding charitable contribution dollars to Fast Offering and Perpetual Education programs? I have some charitable contribution information to report. In the UK, churches are required by law to report their charitable statistics. In the year 2005 contributions to the LDS church totalled 29 million pounds. Staff expenses totaled 9 million pounds. Charitable donations totaled 340,000 pounds. Very odd.
David Solum | 5:32 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
I am writing from the Mid West, President Gordon B. Hinckley is a Great Man, he
is a son of our Heavenly Father that has done only what he has been asked to do.
Serve. He has done NOTHING WRONG to anyone of you that are BASHING for his
faith, this is not awarded because of Faith, but because of service. What GOOD
are you making of yourself to say bad things about a man that has done nothing
wrong, why is he getting all the bad rap for the church, the church does have
members that are not good people, but so does every faith in the world.
God Bless Us All, Lets Pray for our Troops and our families, as well as the rest of the world that wants peace. PS I am sorry if my grammar is not perfect, I am only a High School Graduate. Thanks
God Bless Us All, Lets Pray for our Troops and our families, as well as the rest of the world that wants peace. PS I am sorry if my grammar is not perfect, I am only a High School Graduate. Thanks
Darlene, California | 5:40 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
Well, at first I was pretty excited to see the Article but was a little less
enthused as I continued to read;
I am grateful for President Hinckley. Some of his teachings I hold dear. "Stand a Little Taller is my favorite "daily read". He is inspiring. Just listen to him at Conference and you just can't help but smile. He makes you feel good about yourself.
I am also grateful that I am allowed to have my own feelings and present them as I see fit;
I am grateful for President Hinckley. Some of his teachings I hold dear. "Stand a Little Taller is my favorite "daily read". He is inspiring. Just listen to him at Conference and you just can't help but smile. He makes you feel good about yourself.
I am also grateful that I am allowed to have my own feelings and present them as I see fit;
enough already | 10:57 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
To rain-mom.
Hello. Sorry about the lack of clarity on that posting. I did not say that I could see into the heart of Mr. Hinkley. What I meant to say was that none of us can see into the heart of a man and know his intent. The comments being attached to these articles are often accusing and judgemental. I have often been told that I am not Christian and I wonder how a person can really know whether another person is or not. Our outward actions are not always a good indicator but the heart is always true and known to the master. I'm grateful that my ultimate judge is Jesus Christ because he knows my heart and that his judgement will be fair. Thanks for the question.
Hello. Sorry about the lack of clarity on that posting. I did not say that I could see into the heart of Mr. Hinkley. What I meant to say was that none of us can see into the heart of a man and know his intent. The comments being attached to these articles are often accusing and judgemental. I have often been told that I am not Christian and I wonder how a person can really know whether another person is or not. Our outward actions are not always a good indicator but the heart is always true and known to the master. I'm grateful that my ultimate judge is Jesus Christ because he knows my heart and that his judgement will be fair. Thanks for the question.
Anonymous | 11:09 p.m. Sept. 14, 2007
I don't understand why some people are so upset by Presiden Hinckley
getting this award. As a member of the LDS faith, I would be just as happy for
any representative of any other faith to be awarded for the good they do in this
world. There's already too much anger and hate to get upset about something
as insignificant as this.
Kiwi | 12:59 a.m. Sept. 15, 2007
To those of us who are here to congratulate President Hinckley on this awesome
honour, I suggest we do just that, CONGRATULATE him and from now on, IGNORE all
the anti-President Hinckley, anti-everything-relating-to-the-church comments
being posted.
I believe that these anti contributors are addicted to their cause and need us to react to their comments so that they can get their next fix. As much as we are bursting out of our skins to set the record straight to these people who seem to have nothing better to do than criticize and express their hate, let's be SILENT about their comments and do what I believe these forums are about, ie expressing our opinions on the ARTICLES, in this case, President Hinckley's award, and not on each other's comments. I suspect these "anti" people, because of their addictions, allocate more time than most of us to waste on the net Googling anything related to the church so they can satisfy their addiction & fill their sad days tearing others down
If they have negative comments concerning the article, LEAVE IT ALONE. Don't respond. Let's just ACT (express our opinion on the article) and NOT react! I just hope they will be able to handle their addiction as well as many of you out there have been able to, so patiently & in your best language, handle & respond to some of the garbage they have written!
Well done, President Hinckley. Many of us Downunder congratulate you & honour you for the great example of humility, love & tolerance you are, and for the wonderful leader you are. We love you and pray always that you will have the health & strength to continue to lead us for many more years to come.
I believe that these anti contributors are addicted to their cause and need us to react to their comments so that they can get their next fix. As much as we are bursting out of our skins to set the record straight to these people who seem to have nothing better to do than criticize and express their hate, let's be SILENT about their comments and do what I believe these forums are about, ie expressing our opinions on the ARTICLES, in this case, President Hinckley's award, and not on each other's comments. I suspect these "anti" people, because of their addictions, allocate more time than most of us to waste on the net Googling anything related to the church so they can satisfy their addiction & fill their sad days tearing others down
If they have negative comments concerning the article, LEAVE IT ALONE. Don't respond. Let's just ACT (express our opinion on the article) and NOT react! I just hope they will be able to handle their addiction as well as many of you out there have been able to, so patiently & in your best language, handle & respond to some of the garbage they have written!
Well done, President Hinckley. Many of us Downunder congratulate you & honour you for the great example of humility, love & tolerance you are, and for the wonderful leader you are. We love you and pray always that you will have the health & strength to continue to lead us for many more years to come.
me too | 1:51 a.m. Sept. 15, 2007
Hey kiwi,
Nicely put. The Desnews articles sure have brought out some real winners with some real hangups. It's rally too bad that people can be so negative. I served a mission in 80-82 down your way. Awesome people.
Nicely put. The Desnews articles sure have brought out some real winners with some real hangups. It's rally too bad that people can be so negative. I served a mission in 80-82 down your way. Awesome people.
Tiny | 3:47 a.m. Sept. 15, 2007
First I want to say Congratulations to Pres. Hinckley. I feel he deserves the
award for all his service.
Second, to the rest of you that did alot of whining and complaining and bashing in your comments I say just this: GET A LIFE AND GROW UP! I've seen children behave better and treat others better.
Second, to the rest of you that did alot of whining and complaining and bashing in your comments I say just this: GET A LIFE AND GROW UP! I've seen children behave better and treat others better.
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Jeffrey D. Allred, Deseret Morning News
President Gordon Hinckley responds after receiving Municipal Citizen of the Century Award.
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