Deseret News | Utah seeing a baby boom

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Utah seeing a baby boom

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Tim | 6:28 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

What else is new? Why don't they consider adopting in our over-populated world? So selfish!

Joleen | 7:29 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

SO true ... I agree - aren't there children out there waiting to be adopted?

Bob | 7:52 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Tim and Joleen, why don't you both get married to each other and adopt. The world is in need of adoption especially to those that don't want to have their own kids. I have six kids and may adopt in the future. I know many LDS that have adopted kids from around the world. The world is not over populated. I have been to 47 countries (including China and India) and there is plenty of space and resources in this world. Stop listening to Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. It is very ironic that you claim it is selfish to have clildren. Quite the contrary it is completely selfless and a ton of work. The single, divorced, gay, anti-marriage lifestyle is extremely selfish. Look at your lifestyle and consider how selfish it is. Should you consider adoption?

Comments continue below

sb | 7:57 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I don't understand why starting a family is an extension of your LDS faith. A lot of people start a family that are not LDS. You should start a family not because it is an extension of your religion but because you want to enjoy them and continue your posterity. The article makes it sound as though the main reason they want to start a family is because they are LDS!

Gary | 7:58 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Selfish to have children? How selfish not to have children. Anyone who believes this planet is overpopulated has not traveled much. Remeber, the worlds fastest growing economies are driven by large populations (India and China, for starters). Try having our population drop by a modest 10 percent and see what that does to our economy/GDP. We have been buying the "overpopulation" myth for about three decades too long. Western Europe is on the brink of economic mayhem and we philosophically are trying to follow suit.

As for adoption, by all means encourage it. But if you point fingers at young married couples having children as models of selfishness, you are misinformed. Check the statistics in this nation on children being born outside of wedlock and it may sober you. Due to abortion on demand and the government perks for single young mothers, it is unusual for a young mother to be unselfish enough to carry a pregnancy to term and place the child up for adoption. Do you want our society of tomorrow composed of a majority of adults having been raised without a traditional two parent home? If you decry the Olsens and their Ilke as selfish, that's just what we will see. Perhaps a day will come when we will not only report on this trend, but commend young families like the Olsens who buck a short sighted pop culture.

Linda | 8:06 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Selfish? Raising children is far from selfishness. It is a lifetime commitment. Those who think they would do well with adopting are also very unselfish. Those who would bring children into the world and abandon them or harm them, now that is the ultimate shelfish act.

R.M. | 8:11 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Adoption is a wonderful option. I guess you have adopted one of the children out there waiting for parents.

Ken Goddard | 8:31 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

The main thing is that lots of children gives churches plenty of future tithe payers. The churches can't miss since the fallout is dumped onto the rest of society (welfare, tax burden, medical, divorce, education, criminal, etc). Over population is the earth's death knell.

Liz | 8:35 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Having children isn't neccessarily an extension of LDS religion. It's a socially and culturally accepted norm of LDS culture to start a family young. Any religion can have children! It's a *human* evolutionary practice to find a mate and pass on our genetic inheritance, not specifially a religious rite of passage.

Doug | 8:38 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

The US has a childrate of 2.1 children per couple just barely over replacement. Most European countries are in the 1.1 to 1.5 birthrate. Greece is at 1.1 children per couple. What this means is that every generation, their country has 1/2 the population as the prior generation.

The social contract over there REQUIRE new immigrants in order to fund the retirement of the older generations.

As for having birth children, one reason is the LDS faith, which has the belief that these children exist BEFORE they are conceived. Understanding that religious doctrine can help understand the desire to have children. Without that understanding, then such birthrates will seem outside the norm. But that is okay, since we have religious freedom in this country, at least for now.

Adoption | 8:40 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I am a proponent of just having children. Some people struggle to have kids, like we did, so we adopted. But we also have two biological children. I personally believe children are a great blessing. My wife and I would not be complete without them.

KC | 8:42 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Having children is anything but selfish! It is the most selfless thing you can do. I have 5 children and there is not a moment for myself, except between the hours of 11:00pm-7:00 am, which of course I am too exhausted to do anything but sleep because of all of the selfless acts I have performed for my children and husband. Those of you who consider having your own children as selfish, need to realize life is more than just thinking about #1! Until you have been a parent, don't criticize people who are doing the best they can to be parents and raise decent children who will be an asset to society.

Rob | 8:47 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Adoption is great. But it is also difficult, expensive and Time Consuming. My wife and I have a biological 6 year old daughter and have tried to adopt another child for over 3 years. We tried domestic open adoption 1st but with all the parental right laws and lack of children (there are about 40 parents for every 1 child under age 2 available in the US)it seemed like and exercise in futility. So then when went international (China) and that has been a long process as well. As to the comment about selfishness. It would be selfish for a loving home with a husband and wife not to have children that can contribute to society in a positive fashion. We obviuosly have plenty of single parent homes producing children the studies show have a higher chance of being a negative influence. As in these children are more likely to serve prison time, not graduate high school, and produce more children out of wedlock, thus continuing the cycle. So let praise young married couple who want to have families. Lord knows this country needs them.

Get a clue! | 8:50 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to adopt? How many years and how much money it costs? It's not like picking up an unwanted puppy at the pound. In this state there are more couples waiting to adopt than children available by quite some margin. If you want to adopt a child from a foreign country you better have at least 20,000 dollars on hand. Obviously the people who made the first two comments are completely clueless on the subject!

That is the point, children are wanted! I wanted to adopt and someday I hope to. But I am currently too poor for the undertaking. Before you say something about a topic, try learning about it first!

Q | 8:57 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Why can't the desire to have children be inspired by your faith? Especially when you consider the LDS church's perspective on families. This is a very acceptable reason to want to have children.

The desire to have your own children, and not adopt, is not selfish at all. It is unfortunate that there are so many unwanted babies. The men and women who create these babies are the SELFISH ones. Think about that.

Jamie Taylor- Wichita, KS | 9:05 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Being LDS has given me a new perspective on families and marriage, that my non-LDS family members don't have. Having that perspective makes that desire to have children and a family stronger.We have 5 children, 2 boys of my own, 1 who is special needs. Having them in our home brings a special spirit to our home and allows for many fun and teaching opportunities that we cherish now and will forever. I am thankful to KNOW that my family is mine FOREVER. That is ONE of many reasons why we welcome children into our familes. Can you say that? I hope that before you go bashing someones beliefs, you learn more about it so that you will know why we do what we do! That would be the proper thing to do.

Me | 9:06 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I agree with the comments stating that having children is the most selfless thing I have ever done. I have lost myself in raising my two boys and it has been worth it because they are very well adjusted good boys who are deeply loved by not only my husband and myself, but they have profoundly effected the lives of both sets of grandparents. One set who does not have a lot of possitive things to look forward to in life and the other set who have marital problems that seem to melt away in the presence of our children. I would give even more of myself to my children if it meant their lives will be better for it and chances are, because they will be raised by a two parent family who is devoted to their well being, they will grow up into fine young men who will have a positive impact in our society.

Carl | 9:14 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Perhaps you don't understand:

World population is expected to hit 9B+ by 2050. How many more spirits do you want?

World resources can hardly sustain the 6B+ population now not to mention the strains on the environment.

Learn something outside of the narrow views of Utah!

Go Olsens! | 9:33 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Is it an extention of my faith that I got married at 20 years old and have stayed totally monogamous in my relationship for 11 years (as has my hubby, who was 22)? Is it an extention of my faith that I now have three beautiful children, with another waiting one more week to come into our family? Is it an extention of my faith that I have grounded, loving, happy children whom I am raising to be good citizens and believe in God?

If all these decisions are extentions of my faith, then my greatest blessings are an extention of my faith! If I weren't LDS I doubt I would have made these choices as early as I did, but I can't think of a happier life than the one we lead here in our family!

justin | 9:44 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

having more kids than you can take care of by yourself is selfish. I can think of nothing worse than having my older kids raise my younger ones.

Charles | 9:51 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Ken Goddard, what's with all the insults and silly comments. Are you really that much of a bigot that you would put your name to such hatred for a religion?

There is plenty in the world for all. Zero population alarmists just don't have a clue about life and perpetuation of it for all mankind.

Ken, you live in a sad, sad state of mind. I hope your neighbors adopt you quickly so you can be happy and be a productive member of society.

My take | 9:51 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Have as many children as you want - as long as you can afford them. And don't ask me to pay for them any more than I already do in my social contract that I have with the community (property tax, etc).

In other words, if you can't afford to educate them in a more expensive manner than I the manner in which I already subsidize, then don't have them.

To: Carl | 10:11 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Carl has obviously never traveled outside of the State if Utah. It's not a matter of have enough world resources. It's a matter of efficency and getting those resources to the people that need it. It's been repeated said that the heartland of America produces enough food to feed the whole a couple times over. That what we need to work on.

As stated earlier, in order to adopt a child you need to have at least $20,000 cash on hand. Perhaps if they made adoption easier, then more people may decide to go that route. Until then I plan on having my own children. I couldn't imagine my life being complete if I had never had children. Try it yourself, you might like it!

Anonymous | 10:18 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

"As for having birth children, one reason is the LDS faith, which has the belief that these children exist BEFORE they are conceived"

Some people have been watching a little too much "Saturday's Warrior". Perhaps they should watch "An inconvenient truth" instead to get a grip.
There's plenty of standing room. Natural resources are limited.

Mike | 10:19 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

For those worried about over-population. Please look at the latest UN studies that state the Earth's population will peak in 2030 and then begin a steep decline. The demographics in almost all first world countries and many other countries show declining fertility rates, many far below replacement rate. In other words, in the next 20 years we are going to have to figure out how to work with a declining population. Please stop the "Utah is so provincial" comments and get the real data instead.

scooter | 10:32 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Just a couple points:
1)Someone said how expensive adoption is. If you can't afford an adoption, then you can't afford any children. I think it is awful to bypass adoption for your own birth for no other reason than "it's cheaper." If you're just scraping by as it is, then having a child is going to make you even poorer, and that is unfair to put a child in a position that is not optimal.

2)I also think it is an awful argument to bring up economic growth as a counter-argument to overpopulation. That's pretty much saying we should have children to perpetuate a pyramid scheme. Yeah, let's breed more people just so they can pay our debts and take care of us.. terrible..

3)Someone said there are plenty of resources to go around. Says who? The majority of the world is in poverty! Yes, Majority! Have you ever been to Africa? They're not exactly having daily feasts over there.

If you want children, have them, I think it's great. But have them because you believe you can offer them a great life, not because your religion tells you to, or because your friends and family are having them and you don't want to be left out, or for any other societal reasons, or to carry on your pyramid scheme.
If you want a large family, then do it by adoption. Yes its hard and expensive, but if you can't handle that, how can you handle a large family at all? If you're bredding 5 or 6+ kids without adoption, then yes, that is selfish. You're saying they're not good enough for you. I think it's a much more noble and respectable path.

Mid Atlantic | 10:44 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

To the overpopulation choir:

spend a few minutes thinking about who may be paying your social security benefits...

...perhaps the kids in this article, perhaps my _four_ children raised in a happy, hard-working home...

Veronika | 10:51 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Why is it that people always run with the mouth about other ,but don't want to do anything them self.If you want the children of the world to be adopted, then why not start doing somthing yourself first.Everyone is talking about what other people should do.Look at your selfs first.If you are not willing to do something then why are you trying to tell others what to do?????????????What does it Say?
Clean your own house first!

Jody | 11:10 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

As long as people can afford to raise the children and provide for their every need then go ahead and have as many as you can afford. Love and nurture them, provide them with their needs and not wants. Bring them up in their faith and train them well. If you are lucky they will provide you with a nice nursing home in your old age.

Gary | 11:13 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

"Carl", I'm not from Utah, don't live in Utah, but am alarmed by the misinformation you're pandering. Look across the small towns of America and see what the population decrease of urbanization has done. Local economies and opportunities are in the tank. People are the key ingredient to a thriving economy. Ask European governments why they are considering financial incentives to increase birth rates. Drive across the farmland from Nebraska to Ohio and tell me at the end of that drive we are overpopulated. (Or try I-90, I-70, I-40, I-20, I-10 cross country, I-10 is the only one with more than one decent metropolis per every 500 miles)

"My take", who do you think will pay your social security?..or pay the taxes to maintain any infrastucture in this or any country you plan on retiring in? Probably children you help educate through property taxes today.

People need to evaluate the implications of the short-sighted philosophy of "overpopulation".

Josh | 11:22 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

If you want to have 8 kids and you can support them, do it. Or one, or none. That's a great sacrifice, and who could possibly be arrogant enough to critisize it?

And Tim, if you're unaware, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints champions adoption programs. Several of my cousins were adopted through church-affiliated programs.

Rob | 1:10 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Scooter,
There are plenty of people who can not afford or choose not to go into a large amount of debt to adopt a child that can easily afford to support the child once they have one. Adoption is a great thing and as I stated earlier I am in the process of adopting from China. However having your own children does not say to those who you did not adopt that "they are not good enough for you". It says that you like almost every other human would like to have your own children.
As far as the overpopulation arguement. According to Al Gore that wont be a problem after the Giant Hurricanes, Rising Oceans and severe druaghts Caused by Gloabal Warming kill most the worlds human population. :-) In reality if your concerned about over population and a strain on the earths resourses lets just tell all the liberals to stop having kids. That way we can eliminate several problems all at once. As in the cost of Welfare, prisons, housing projects, drug addiction centers, and of course this would eliminate most of the Hollywood elite. :-)
Scooter I am just glad that I live in a country where I can ignore your opinion and live a happy life with as many kids as I want.
Take Care.

Precious Resources | 1:16 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

To those of you who cry, "We're depleting the Earth!" I have a question for you. How much do you reduce, reuse, and recycle? There's a lot more that could be done before you start mandating limits on children.

And to Amy Bjorge, I'm sorry, but I stopped reading your comment the moment that you used the price of gasoline in your argument. Try using a more necessary-to-sustaining-life commodity next time, and maybe I'll listen to you. If you're that worried about the Earth, buy a biofuel car before you start telling me to not have any more kids.

California | 1:28 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

And what about FOSTER CARE? That is another big need.

Re: Scooter | 1:40 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I don't have 20,000 to adopt, but I did just have a baby. She has everything she could need in this world. Money is not the only thing a child needs. She is well provided for. I have a masters degree in Physics, but I am a school teacher which means I have enough and not much more. That means I have great medical coverage and enough for her needs. I also have the Education required to give her a great experience with her own education. So how does that mean I can't provide her with all her needs because I don't have 20,000 in cash on hand?

Why do people think money is the bottom line on everything? How about emotional maturity, education, compassion, or patience? I think these things make the difference.

Kerry | 1:41 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I'm not often wrong, but when I am, I'm willing to admit it. I have been selfishly pursuing my life in detriment to the planet. And furthermore, I've come to realize that the really inconvenient truth is that the human race and for that matter, all non-photosynthesizing organisms are nothing more than foul parasites. If you stop and think about it for a minute, our whole existence (and I'm including every form of animal life here) amounts to little more than consuming what plants have synthesized and producing waste and offspring. It may be tough to admit it, but the only unselfish and rational course is to return the planet to our bacterial ancestors.

You may be thinking it's an enormous undertaking to eliminate the entire animal kingdom, but I'm willing to get started just as soon as your contributions start pouring in. You can send them to me in care of this newspaper. Please be generous, as stamping out all that selfishness won't come cheap.

Arm of Orion | 1:48 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Amy why must you always fight against religion. Why is there so much contention in your heart? The LDS fatih nor the Bible says pop children out as fast as possible we have always and will always say that we have to live within our means. There will also be times however that PERSONAL revelation says that it's time to have another kid. Stop the hate mongering and try to keep a civil tongue.

NCG | 1:50 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Unfortunately, I only had two children. My son died at the age of 33 without leaving any children. I wish I had 5 more and grandchildren all about. I have two granddaughter, they are all I will ever have. I have friends who have adopted, some with wonderful outcomes, girls from China. No chance of a venal mother coming back and trying to reclaim. Another friend adopted a hispanic/native indian boy with nothing buy disaster and misery, so adoption is no panacea with every little child a blessing.

Everyone speaks of quanity, how about quality and opportunity. I live in a mormon neighborhood with lovely kind people and well behaved and successful children. Their offspring are educated and professionals who more than contribute their part to society. These children born in their auspicious environments will be the scientists and leaders and problem solvers of the future. Telling Americans not to have children is not the solution to areas of the world where women have 8-10 children born into disease and poverty. If you are so strongly in favor of lowering the human birth rate, go to those areas of the world and devote you life to building schools and educating those populations. Your lecturing of large mormon families sounds a little hollow. They are a boon to this country.

--To the hatemongers | 3:19 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

For all of those who feel that the terrible Mormons should limit the amount of children they should have; move to China. Their population control laws will probably suite you better.
---I have never seen such idiotic rhetoric in my life.

for Gary.... | 3:43 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I don't understand you:

you said:

"My take", who do you think will pay your social security?..or pay the taxes to maintain any infrastucture in this or any country you plan on retiring in? Probably children you help educate through property taxes today. "

I SAID I was fine with you having as many children as you can, as long as you can support them.

if you took that to mean I don't want you to have children, you are reading incorrectly.

If you took that to mean I don't want to pay for your children, based on some theoretical pay off down the road, then you got it.

Social security is already bankrupt; trust me: your children won't be paying mine. And if our economy is any sign of times to come, I will be paying the social services for at least half of your un- and underemployed children as adults....

AJ | 3:44 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

-Amy Dear,

Take a deep breath and go hug a tree. There might not be any trees left after all the Mormons over- populate the planet.

You sure like to express your distain for anything that the LDS church teaches or feels is near and dear to them. It just shows how intollerant you truly are.
For all of the parent bashers-
I have, six children, *gasp* I am neither selfish or crazy. I love all of them, and I wouldn't trade any of them. I am not on welfare. (I also teach my children about caring for the environment and preserving our rich resources. This is the job of any responsible parent.)I am not irresponsible, nor did I chose to have a child to keep up with a certain "look" or "pyramid scheme" each one of my kids was very planned. I work very hard to provide for them physically, mentally and emotionally. How can you judge someone's parenting skills based solely on the amount of children they have? I have seen poor parents on both ends of the spectrum. Large families are not easy, but each person knows what they can handle. I have friends who can only handle a single child. I don't feel they are selfish, they just know their limits. I have other friends who have eight children, and they are awesome parents.
Judgement calls are sure easy to make. Those who want to save the planet need to get a grip on their own intollerance for the lifestyle of others. I feel that I am tolerant of all people, religion, and thought. I just wish that others would do the same.

Not From Around Here | 4:27 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Wow...this is the wierdest newspaper and comment section I have ever seen. Sorry to sound so amazed, but I feel like I just stepped into an alternate universe where I don't speak the language. I am surprised at the emotional attacks and belittling of other's beliefs in the comments, it feels like there is a lot more to this issue that is boiling under the surface.

Sounds like SLC needs a group hug!!!

Go outside | 4:34 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Get off your computers and go outside, you're wasting electricity and at this rate, My kids won't be able to have kids if you keep wasting this resource.

Don | 5:41 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

There are plenty of children available for adoption. My brother and his wife have adopted 4 children over the past 7 years and have not had difficulty adopting. All of these children were born in the US. The are waiting lists for people who are only willing to adopt white chidren.

Solomon | 8:38 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I think that a more learned approach is to view those who wish to have children to have them. We did not have any children, we could not. No, we did not adopt either. Yes, we are very blessed in many ways and spend many resources, both material and non-material helping those that are less fortunate. No, I am not LDS, however did go to school in Utah. I know LOTS about the Mormon religion and respect the religion, however, it is not for me. My experience with many LDS families is that the dad/husband/male figure is so busy working, trying to make enough money to sustain his family that he has little, if any, real quality time for the number of children he has. I have many LDS friends that talk about "getting to know their son/daughter". I submit that all would be better off if they had less children and put some quality time in with them. Sadly, my experience, which I doubt is unique is that in many LDS families that is not the case. Take an HONEST look at your family and those of others in the ward, if you are honest and sincere, you'll see my point.

Craig | 9:38 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Communist (no religion allowed) USSR taught a lot of the same things people in these blogs have said. China forces everyone to abort all but one baby for the same reason. Do we really want to become like Russia and China? Where did saying the population is out of control get them? Today Putin gave everyone a holiday so they could go make babies. That country is going down the tubes because of false thinking. China has (& it will get far worse) a huge social problem because they have way too many men. Children are the future. Adopting, have your own, you name it. Children bring happiness. The more the merrier. If you love this stinking philosophies, move there, and then you won't have to worry about it at all. Russia needs you, you need them. So go all ready.

Jess | 9:58 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Don,
Please, do your research on adoption before you say there are children, not white, just begging to be adopted. Waiting lists are long everywhere and costs are high. Believe me, I know.

AJ | 10:41 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Solomon- I respect the fact that you have observed LDS families;however, please don't go into stereotypes here. Not all Mormon men do all the working. My husband and I grew up in the 80's both of us came from LDS homes, and both of our mothers worked full-time.
I currently live in a highly dense LDS populated area. 3/4 of the women in our ward work. Most women in our ward have between 2-4 children. (My husband and I have more children than what we grew up with. Each of us came from families of 4. We also have one of the largest families in our ward) Huge families are a thing of the past for most LDS folks, and yes most LDS faithful folks. It is very difficult in today's world to raise huge familes for one. I believe that most LDS people do what they feel is best for them in this regard.
The truth is LDS or non-LDS most parents spend less time with their children these days. I remember reading a survey that stated that most parents typically spend 20 minutes a day spending time with their child. (Sad but true.)
In our home, we do have a lot of children (6). We sacrifice time to be with our kids. My husband spends most of his free time reading with our kids, jumping on the trampoline with our kids, and just plain hanging out with the kids. Our kids are our hobby. Not a lot of free time here.
We are not the "perfect" Mormon family. I don't know if they really exist. I just get tired of people rattling off stereotypes without any basis in fact. Don't judge what you know about 1 or 2 families and base it on the whole church.

Visitor | 11:23 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Don is right. The people who are claiming there is a shortage of children to adopt in the United States are purposely omitting an important word -- WHITE. There are millions of black, Hispanic and otherwise mixed race children available for adoption. However, most of them will never be adopted because the Robs of America believe there is a racial hierarchy with white people and Han derived Asians at the top. They do not consider the children most likely to be available for adoption acceptable so they spend millions trying to acquire a white or Chinese child. The problem is not availability of adoptable children, it is the bigotry of many white American adoptive parents. One irony of this is that the white people most likely to adopt African-American children are. . .Canadians.

latenight | 11:51 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Pulling out the race card. Typical

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Brittany Olsen, left, reads to Xaya with dad Kasidy on Monday. "Our religious background is LDS. A big part of that is to have a family," Brittany says.