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Sides square off in school-voucher debate
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Anonymous | 6:55 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
The whole increase competition among Public school systems is really a facade.
Our Private system has been able to fill its seats for years without a
government subsidy. How will competition increase? Only students vying for
seats at the Private schools will have to compete. This will drive up academic
performance and achievement as the top gifted students replace the more average
children. It should also drive up tuition as demand increases.
If I was a parent with children in a Private school, I'd definitely be worried how vouchers would negatively impact my child. Could they maintain enrollment, or will the increase demand mean my child will have to go elsewhere?
If I was a parent with children in a Private school, I'd definitely be worried how vouchers would negatively impact my child. Could they maintain enrollment, or will the increase demand mean my child will have to go elsewhere?
James | 8:06 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Anonymous, nice try.
You clearly understand half of free markets. Yes, in the world of supply and demand if all that ever happened is a large number (estimated to be about 10,000 out of Utah's 500,000 kids) of our children went to private schools, limited supply, higher demand, the price of tuition would go up as the availability of seats went down.
The other side to that is that we WILL see more private schools open up, or expand size. Last week I talked with a teacher in Provo School District who admited that if it passed he was strongly considering opening his own private school. He knew it would be small but he wanted to focus on a curriculum and teaching method that the school districts have gotten away from using and refuse to allow back in.
If the Union were running our food system we would have one restaurant with options of hold the mayo, add some lettuce. If the Union were running our automobile industry we would get one car with the choice of paint jobs, maybe leather interior versus cloth. If the Union were running our shoe manufacturing we would get a choice of either church shoes, or church shoes with rubber soles so you could play sports in them, maybe some choices with colors and neat logos on the side.
We don't allow one-size fits all anywhere else. Why here? Trust that free agency works. That is one of the greatest success stories that has been America. While the rest of the world controlled all the decision and policy making, America did something unheard of: We opened it up and let people be free to choose, let the consequence follow. Time for education to catch up with the rest of the world.
Vote yes!
You clearly understand half of free markets. Yes, in the world of supply and demand if all that ever happened is a large number (estimated to be about 10,000 out of Utah's 500,000 kids) of our children went to private schools, limited supply, higher demand, the price of tuition would go up as the availability of seats went down.
The other side to that is that we WILL see more private schools open up, or expand size. Last week I talked with a teacher in Provo School District who admited that if it passed he was strongly considering opening his own private school. He knew it would be small but he wanted to focus on a curriculum and teaching method that the school districts have gotten away from using and refuse to allow back in.
If the Union were running our food system we would have one restaurant with options of hold the mayo, add some lettuce. If the Union were running our automobile industry we would get one car with the choice of paint jobs, maybe leather interior versus cloth. If the Union were running our shoe manufacturing we would get a choice of either church shoes, or church shoes with rubber soles so you could play sports in them, maybe some choices with colors and neat logos on the side.
We don't allow one-size fits all anywhere else. Why here? Trust that free agency works. That is one of the greatest success stories that has been America. While the rest of the world controlled all the decision and policy making, America did something unheard of: We opened it up and let people be free to choose, let the consequence follow. Time for education to catch up with the rest of the world.
Vote yes!
Comments continue below
Dave Hansen | 8:45 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
The level the playing field argument reveals the true intent of the anti-voucher
crowd.
It's not about what's best for the individual child, it's about what's best for their system and the status quo.
And that's just sad.
Furthermore, the idea that public schools won't improve because of competition ignores reality. Several studies have been done on this, including some by Harvard professors, and guess what? Public schools react positively to competition. Go to the following website to see a list of the studies with regards to this: http://www.choiceineducation.org/research.php
It's not about what's best for the individual child, it's about what's best for their system and the status quo.
And that's just sad.
Furthermore, the idea that public schools won't improve because of competition ignores reality. Several studies have been done on this, including some by Harvard professors, and guess what? Public schools react positively to competition. Go to the following website to see a list of the studies with regards to this: http://www.choiceineducation.org/research.php
Dave Hansen | 9:00 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
And I forgot to mention the truth behind Rep. Moss' statement that "we
have competition."
It's true that a student can technically go to any public school in the state (through open enrollment), but that's only half the story.
First, most of the top schools don't except more students.
Second, the state law says that if a class is above 80% capacity, than the school doesn't have to take more kids. That seems fair until you look more closely and realize that capacity for 1st through 3rd grade is defined as 17 kids (or maybe it's 15). Does anyone know of any 1st grade class in the state that has less than 14 students in it? Of course no. So in other words, almost no public school has to take kids from outside of their boundaries.
Third, saying that "open enrollment equals competition/school choice" is weak. That's like saying "Hey, if you don't like the Wal-Mart downtown, go to the one in Murray or Taylorsville." And sure, there's differences between individual Wal-mart stores. They hire different people, have different managers, and even different store lay-outs, but it's still Wal-mart! The same holds true with open enrollment.
But really, the bottom line (and I think Mr. Eyre hit on the head) is do you want parents to have more control or not?
And sure, I'm willing to admit that this isn't the "perfect" bill. It's never going to be all things to all people, and compromises were made to get it passed, but it's a step in the right direction.
It's a step towards giving more parents more options to find the school that works best for their family's unique needs.
Vote FOR Referendum 1!!
It's true that a student can technically go to any public school in the state (through open enrollment), but that's only half the story.
First, most of the top schools don't except more students.
Second, the state law says that if a class is above 80% capacity, than the school doesn't have to take more kids. That seems fair until you look more closely and realize that capacity for 1st through 3rd grade is defined as 17 kids (or maybe it's 15). Does anyone know of any 1st grade class in the state that has less than 14 students in it? Of course no. So in other words, almost no public school has to take kids from outside of their boundaries.
Third, saying that "open enrollment equals competition/school choice" is weak. That's like saying "Hey, if you don't like the Wal-Mart downtown, go to the one in Murray or Taylorsville." And sure, there's differences between individual Wal-mart stores. They hire different people, have different managers, and even different store lay-outs, but it's still Wal-mart! The same holds true with open enrollment.
But really, the bottom line (and I think Mr. Eyre hit on the head) is do you want parents to have more control or not?
And sure, I'm willing to admit that this isn't the "perfect" bill. It's never going to be all things to all people, and compromises were made to get it passed, but it's a step in the right direction.
It's a step towards giving more parents more options to find the school that works best for their family's unique needs.
Vote FOR Referendum 1!!
Tom | 9:06 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
James, I don't think you understand the other half of the free market
economy. The Crandal Mine was not a union mine, it was union miners that came in
to help with the rescue. Unions don't advocate for a single product, they
advocate for quality products and for adiquate pay for their work. With schools,
union members advocate for strong public schools that educate all students. They
don't advocate for weakening schools or taking aways students. Those same
union teachers are there in school everyday working with all students,
overcoming inadiquate funding and overcrowded classrooms to provide a quality
education. I'm sure they even try to be professional with parents who are
negative, won't support them, call them names, and do everything they can
to weaken schools all in the name of trying to help their own child. So James,
I'm voting NO on referendum 1 because I believe that Vouchers are
unconstitutional, wrong, won't fix the problems of schools, and are an
entitlement to the middle/rich class of people who can afford to send their
children to private schools. Sorry James, I believe in public schools and I
believe in the teachers that teach there and in the unions that work hard to
improve the conditions in schools for both students and teachers.
John | 9:08 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
I still have a hard time accepting this parents Choice in Education issue.
Parents have choices, public schools, charter schools, home schooling, and
private schools. The issue is who is going to pay for it. I pay taxes to
support public education, which is good. It is available to all who want to
learn. If I want to send my kids to private school, then I must be willing to
pay for it because that was the choice I made.
To me this whole thing is about parents choosing a more expensive education and then expecting the public to help pay. Seems like a new tax to me. Why not use their money to fund scholarships?
As far as competition goes, when does it end? I currently disagree with the way my local government is runing the city. Do I start lobbying for a Citizens Choice in Government? A private contrator could patch the pot holes in my street faster than the city seems to be able to. Shouldn't I get a voucher so I can get the work done?
Finally, what will happen if the Voucher Law is repealed? Can we expect out legistature to hear the voice of the people through the vote or will they listen to the special interests and high priced lobbists and just pass another Voucher law?
Vote NO. Keep our tax money available to all and not give it to the wealthy.
To me this whole thing is about parents choosing a more expensive education and then expecting the public to help pay. Seems like a new tax to me. Why not use their money to fund scholarships?
As far as competition goes, when does it end? I currently disagree with the way my local government is runing the city. Do I start lobbying for a Citizens Choice in Government? A private contrator could patch the pot holes in my street faster than the city seems to be able to. Shouldn't I get a voucher so I can get the work done?
Finally, what will happen if the Voucher Law is repealed? Can we expect out legistature to hear the voice of the people through the vote or will they listen to the special interests and high priced lobbists and just pass another Voucher law?
Vote NO. Keep our tax money available to all and not give it to the wealthy.
Mark | 9:59 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
No one is accounting for the financial benefit for the schools. A
'rich' person gets $500 from the state to give toward private tuition,
a low income family gets $3000. The public school continues to get the money for
the departed student (through the mitigation fund), so they have the same amount
of money to spend, but fewer students. Right off the bat that lowers class size
in the public schools, and over time if private schooling increases, enough
students leaving the public school system means fewer new building bonds, fewer
crowded schools, more choice for all parents. Everyone wins.
James | 10:10 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Tom, in debate you did a straw man arguement. The point was to supply and
demand, not the title of Union label.
Are you saying that with the passage of vouchers we will not see supply of private school seats increase? End of that discussion.
As to your other points. If vouchers were unconstitutional why has the Union not filed a challenge to it? Apparently you know something that the rest of the Union doesn't. Clearly it IS constitutional, and you're in error.
Second, it will fix schools. Competition works. Read some of the research from the web site that Dave Hansen posted. Those are Harvard's thoughts, not mine.
Third, this is not an entitlement for the rich/middle class. By definition, by and large they won't qualify. The poor get the $3,000 per year, not the rich. And middle class is a pretty broad category. Some of the low, middle class will. The more wealth they have the less they get until at a certain point, they get nothing.
With the examples you have given between the Union controling education and the union controlling other industries is not quite apples to apples. While the title is the same where we will disagree is the amount of influence. I have watched with my own eyes as School Board members literally back down from issues they have worked on for months, the moment the Union leader says no.
We can play symantics all we want. The Union absolutely controls education in Utah. The union did not control the mine, or other industries to this degree. This is a subjective statement so plenty of room to disagree. I have simply been shocked over the years to the degree that the Union basically intellectually owns education in Utah. This is about Union power.
Are you saying that with the passage of vouchers we will not see supply of private school seats increase? End of that discussion.
As to your other points. If vouchers were unconstitutional why has the Union not filed a challenge to it? Apparently you know something that the rest of the Union doesn't. Clearly it IS constitutional, and you're in error.
Second, it will fix schools. Competition works. Read some of the research from the web site that Dave Hansen posted. Those are Harvard's thoughts, not mine.
Third, this is not an entitlement for the rich/middle class. By definition, by and large they won't qualify. The poor get the $3,000 per year, not the rich. And middle class is a pretty broad category. Some of the low, middle class will. The more wealth they have the less they get until at a certain point, they get nothing.
With the examples you have given between the Union controling education and the union controlling other industries is not quite apples to apples. While the title is the same where we will disagree is the amount of influence. I have watched with my own eyes as School Board members literally back down from issues they have worked on for months, the moment the Union leader says no.
We can play symantics all we want. The Union absolutely controls education in Utah. The union did not control the mine, or other industries to this degree. This is a subjective statement so plenty of room to disagree. I have simply been shocked over the years to the degree that the Union basically intellectually owns education in Utah. This is about Union power.
Anonymous | 10:11 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
This voucher law is not about taking the taxes that you pay and sending somebody
else's kid to private school. It is about letting parents use some of
their tax money to pay for their children's education.
I feel that when I pay taxes I am not paying for public education. I am paying for the education of children and I would like my money used in the best way possible. If that means that the best way for a certain child is through a private school, then I am happy to have money go that way.
Also, if you read the law, as your income increases you benefit drops. A wealthy family would only get $500 a year while a poorer family would get $3000. Even if wealthy families participate six times as much as poorer families, tax money would be split evenly between rich and poor.
Currently, I am unable to afford private school. But luckily I was able to get my children into a good charter school. We work a lot with our children to supplement what they learn in school but we found that since they were more advanced than some of the other children, they got lost. The teacher told us that my son had gone beyond what she could do. No child left behind also means, most of the time, no child gets ahead. So if I had not been able to get into a charter school, I would have had no options but to let our children get bored in class because they already knew what was being taught.
I am all for letting parents choose!
I feel that when I pay taxes I am not paying for public education. I am paying for the education of children and I would like my money used in the best way possible. If that means that the best way for a certain child is through a private school, then I am happy to have money go that way.
Also, if you read the law, as your income increases you benefit drops. A wealthy family would only get $500 a year while a poorer family would get $3000. Even if wealthy families participate six times as much as poorer families, tax money would be split evenly between rich and poor.
Currently, I am unable to afford private school. But luckily I was able to get my children into a good charter school. We work a lot with our children to supplement what they learn in school but we found that since they were more advanced than some of the other children, they got lost. The teacher told us that my son had gone beyond what she could do. No child left behind also means, most of the time, no child gets ahead. So if I had not been able to get into a charter school, I would have had no options but to let our children get bored in class because they already knew what was being taught.
I am all for letting parents choose!
tvb | 10:15 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
I agree John. I have no problem with private schools, competition, or choice.
I just have a problem with public tax dollars going towards the private
institution, regardless of what theoretical benefits pro-voucher advocates
claim. We ALL pay taxes to help the community, but just because I don't
drive on 4500 S. doesn't mean my taxes can't help pay for its upgrade
and maintainance. Likewise, just because someone's child goes to private
school doesn't mean they have more of a right to choose where their taxes
go. Public taxes should fund public causes/institutions. Private money should
fund private causes/institutions....That's the bottom line for me.
Doug | 10:17 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
I think a big misunderstanding is really how much the vouchers will not change
who can go to private school, but only provide another tax benefit to those who
can already afford it. Considering that only the poorest parents can get the
$3,000 and some of the least expensive private schools cost $10,000, it just
means that still only those who could afford it before will now get a little tax
relief. I can�t help but notice, and
I�ll admit I live in such an area, that I see by far the
highest concentration of pro-voucher signs in well to do
area�s. This isn�t about creating
competition, it�s not about providing a better education
for children, it�s about giving those who already have
money more money. Like I said, I�m one of these people, but
I know that if I choose to send my kids to private school that my tax dollars
still go to help pay for a lunch for a student that can�t
afford it, money to hire an assistant for a special needs child, or help keep
music and arts in our schools.
Fred | 10:34 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Why do have mitigation money if the voucher program is going to leave more money
for public schools? Because it isn't going to leave more money for
schools. The implication is that the mitigation money will cover all the
students that leave the system. They have set aside 9 million dollars for that.
That will cover a little over 3,000 students. What if more students than that
opt out of the system, I am sure the legislature will increase the money, just
like they did when the $2500.00 raise for teachers was under funded. The
mitigation money only lasts for 5 yrs. then what? This is a grand experiment
with a potentially high price tag. We can afford the most expensive voucher
program in the nation when we have the lowest funded school system in the
nation, anyone catch the irony in that?
Fred | 10:48 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Hears a question for all of you that think the "union" controls
education, they don't care about kids just about themselves. With that
"control" why aren't they the highest paid teachers in the
country? Maybe because they don't have all that control, maybe because
they do care about kids.
Lets get real about who has the control of education in the state of Utah. The group that is bent on the destruction of public education in this state. That would be the Utah Republican Party. Who controls them? A long list of special interest groups.
Lets get real about who has the control of education in the state of Utah. The group that is bent on the destruction of public education in this state. That would be the Utah Republican Party. Who controls them? A long list of special interest groups.
Tim | 10:52 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
In reading these comments, those of you that have problems with your tax money
going to private institutions also take issue with Pell Grants which are allowed
to be used at public institutions. This is not a new issue and it is a good use
of public funds. If we can send a child to a private school using less public
money than if we send them to a public school, I am all for it. If the program
makes it possible for more parents to afford private school, then the public
schools will have more money per pupil than they currently do, which according
to their annual argument will help them to do a better job. It is definitely a
win-win.
Bull4teen | 10:53 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
IM from Michigan and I moved out here in May of 2005. In YOUR local newspapers
it read "Utah kids amongst lowest scores in the US." Can you explain
that? Positive reinforcement and babying have led your society to be a group of
misinfored, under- educated, overly sensitive community. Last time i heard the
guy over at Bear Stearns, who invested in all of those subprime mortgages, GOT
FIRED! I came from a private high school and the education i received was second
to none. It prepared me for college and aided in my opening a business at the
age of 23. I am now 25 with an 8 month old son and when he grows up i will teach
him about the real world. You only get one shot. There are consequences to your
actions and life is not as merry as these people make it seem. There is no way I
would ever instill in him that it is OK to be less than your best. Maybe some of
you should take a look in the mirror and see what type of example you are
setting for your kids. Most of them are sheltered from the real world. Also,
since were on the subject of Public Schools, which are government propoerty. Why
are there seminaries on the campus of every public school? The only thing i want
for my child to be preaching is EDUCATION. This seems to be a problem, I would
rather have my child in study hall than in Seminary class. THINK ABOUT IT!!! Im
sure seminary studies will help him to audit a publicly traded company...THINK
ABOUT IT...
dustin | 10:59 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
I started my child in private school, through 2 years of pre-school. In each
subject taught, he was at a 1st grade, or higher level. Because of the cost, I
was not able to keep him in the private schooling system. He went directly into
the public school system for Kindergarten. During the year, I was assured by the
teacher that she would continue to challenge him. She did not continue with
this. I spoke to the teacher on several occasions, I involved the Principal of
the school, and even Jordan School District officials. I was informed by both
the teacher and principal that all of "his" needs would be met. When
nothing was met, I contacted the district, to find out that I "must let my
kid be a kid, and not pressure so much school". Public schools do not care
about your children, and their education. I have only heard about how teachers
are not paid enough. He is a comparison for everyone to take into reality.
Public school teachers are paid significantly higher than Private school
teachers. Private teachers just care. Maybe Public teachers should care as much.
Vouchers allows others to see the positive of Private schools, and will force a
public school district to see the problems with their teachers. This will create
teachers to think about our kids, and their education. They are the ones that
spend 7 hours a day with them. They are the ones that attended extended
education courses to give our kids the knowledge they need for their futures.
Dave | 11:28 a.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Doug hit the nail on the head!
This debate has nothing to do with competition or choice. This has everything to do with those who are already sending their kids to private schools keeping more money in their own pockets. But rather than be honest and up front about it, they bring up all these other, seemingly more palatable, arguements to support their case to all of us 30-second sound bite consumers.
Thanks Doug!
This debate has nothing to do with competition or choice. This has everything to do with those who are already sending their kids to private schools keeping more money in their own pockets. But rather than be honest and up front about it, they bring up all these other, seemingly more palatable, arguements to support their case to all of us 30-second sound bite consumers.
Thanks Doug!
Bill | 12:09 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Tom, I am not sure of your experience with real unions when you state that they
advocate for quality products. Having lived most of my life in the east and
around unions, I know they really advocate one thing: power. Power to break
businesses down and to power to offer a few dollars more to their members. They
never defend safety unless it brings about more power. They never advocate
better conditions unless it advances their power brokers.
And now in Utah, they are bringing in outside help to shore up their power over Utah education and to firm up their political power - which has diminished over the last few decades.
And now in Utah, they are bringing in outside help to shore up their power over Utah education and to firm up their political power - which has diminished over the last few decades.
Gee | 12:55 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Dustin,
I agree with you, however my story is different. My child went to private school as a preschooler. We also couldn't afford private school when she was ready for kindergarten she was also at a 1st grade reading and 2nd grade math. We talked to her kindergarten teacher and since they don't skip grades in kindergarten we couldn't skip her to first grade. Her teacher did challenge her and really encouraged her to test for the magnet program which just started its first year for first grade. We also challenged her so she would retain what she already had learned. She was excepted and is now attending the Magnet program (which is a public school program). Its all about the teacher and parental involvement that will help your child succeed. If more parents are involved and have a choice, it is a win for all children. I vote yes for vouchers. Remember our children will soon be our leaders and if we are capable of giving them the best, their future and ours will be successful.
I agree with you, however my story is different. My child went to private school as a preschooler. We also couldn't afford private school when she was ready for kindergarten she was also at a 1st grade reading and 2nd grade math. We talked to her kindergarten teacher and since they don't skip grades in kindergarten we couldn't skip her to first grade. Her teacher did challenge her and really encouraged her to test for the magnet program which just started its first year for first grade. We also challenged her so she would retain what she already had learned. She was excepted and is now attending the Magnet program (which is a public school program). Its all about the teacher and parental involvement that will help your child succeed. If more parents are involved and have a choice, it is a win for all children. I vote yes for vouchers. Remember our children will soon be our leaders and if we are capable of giving them the best, their future and ours will be successful.
Anonymous | 2:01 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
During the past ten years I have witnessed a severe decline in the quality of
public education. I am not seeking to blame any group or person for this
because I am ultimately responsible for my child's education. However, when
I approached my children's teachers and administrators about my concerns
with curriculum and a substantive learning enviroment, they disregarded them.
After quite a few meetings, I realized that I was not being listened to and my
concerns would not be addressed. I was so grateful to have a choice to send my
children to charter schools.
Like most parents, I want my children to have the opportunity to receive the best education possible. This debate is ABSOLUTELY about choice. I am not rich. I pay taxes too. Why should my taxes be paid into a system from which my children will not benefit academically? The voucher system would be available to parents, rich or poor, who want a choice in how their children are educated.
VOTE YES!
Like most parents, I want my children to have the opportunity to receive the best education possible. This debate is ABSOLUTELY about choice. I am not rich. I pay taxes too. Why should my taxes be paid into a system from which my children will not benefit academically? The voucher system would be available to parents, rich or poor, who want a choice in how their children are educated.
VOTE YES!
dustin | 3:34 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Gee, thank you for information you have faced as well. To Anonymous, I will
place blame. The newer, younger teachers are lazy. Refusing to do anything that
is out of their "curriculum". How about a lazy teacher. The curriculum
is only to be set as a minimum for each child, not a standard. I can do as much
as possible at my home. But my biggest difficulties through the years, is that
my child has learned he does not have to try in school. I would say he is lazy,
but when it comes to him playing hockey or learning guitar. He will read books
with, or without me. But when it comes to pushing himself harder in school, he
now has become lazy. And I will blame the public schools. I will blame officials
who tell me that I should not pressure my kid, and let him be a kid.
Steve | 3:44 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
I don't think this is about choice. Those who want to send their children
to private school have that choice. They also have the choice to send their
child to public school, which is tax funded. Some choices cost more than
others. We all have to pay some price for the choices we make. I am concerned
with the legislative leadership that has been bought and paid for by the pro
voucher group, and who ignore the public they are suppose to be representing to
pay off their campaign debts. The legislature does not represent the taxpayer,
they represent those who have bought their vote.
Tre | 3:57 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
The voucher program will not decrease class size. Class size is determined by
the FTE. The number of students in a school decreases (even by just a few), the
FTE (number of licensed teachers) also decreases. The loss of an FTE means that
the students in that class are dispersed among the remaining classes. Class
size has just increased.
Vouchers do not cover all the expenses of a private school. Only those families who can cover the remaining expenses can send their child/children to private school. Vouchers are a tax rebate to those who can already afford private schools.
Voucher money does not follow the student if he/she returns to the public education system. An increase of students without the needed funding is an important issue.
The UEA did not start the anti-voucher movement. UEA joined PTA, parents, and other groups that were already working against vouchers.
Public education in Utah is LAST in the nation for funding. Adequate funding would allow the creation of more magnet (GT), resource, arts, and extended after school programs.
I do not see that public education is "broken," it needs to be made a priority. How can we honestly financially support a second education system when the first (that affects the majority) is not adequately funded?
98% of our school aged children (K-12) will not see any benefit from vouchers. 2% will use vouchers to attend private schools. Do we abandon 98% for a tax relief for the 2%?
Vouchers do not cover all the expenses of a private school. Only those families who can cover the remaining expenses can send their child/children to private school. Vouchers are a tax rebate to those who can already afford private schools.
Voucher money does not follow the student if he/she returns to the public education system. An increase of students without the needed funding is an important issue.
The UEA did not start the anti-voucher movement. UEA joined PTA, parents, and other groups that were already working against vouchers.
Public education in Utah is LAST in the nation for funding. Adequate funding would allow the creation of more magnet (GT), resource, arts, and extended after school programs.
I do not see that public education is "broken," it needs to be made a priority. How can we honestly financially support a second education system when the first (that affects the majority) is not adequately funded?
98% of our school aged children (K-12) will not see any benefit from vouchers. 2% will use vouchers to attend private schools. Do we abandon 98% for a tax relief for the 2%?
Nancy | 5:23 p.m. Sept. 7, 2007
Seven years ago the legislature passed a law that students needed to be tested
and account for their learning. In the district I teach in they did not
allocate any money to cover this new law. We lost our librarians, 1/2 our music
program, and 150 teachers. The next year there was still a short fall of funds
to cover the law that was passed. We lost another 50 teachers, and another 1/2
of the music program to cover this new law.
Where is the funding going to come from to cover yet another law that is passed (vouchers) When you remove funding from an institution there is a consequence.
With the accountability law they passed they not only had to pay for the paper to cover the testing, the people to administor the new law, those who wrote the new tests, and all of the red tape that goes with any new law.
I believe from first hand experience anytime you make a new law there are financial consequences. If vouchers pass, voucher supporters come out on top and the public system pays for their success.
When it comes time to pay the bills, who will pay the bills. The public system will. Schools will be affected and taxes will eventually increase.
Where is the funding going to come from to cover yet another law that is passed (vouchers) When you remove funding from an institution there is a consequence.
With the accountability law they passed they not only had to pay for the paper to cover the testing, the people to administor the new law, those who wrote the new tests, and all of the red tape that goes with any new law.
I believe from first hand experience anytime you make a new law there are financial consequences. If vouchers pass, voucher supporters come out on top and the public system pays for their success.
When it comes time to pay the bills, who will pay the bills. The public system will. Schools will be affected and taxes will eventually increase.
Anonymous | 12:05 a.m. Sept. 8, 2007
Nancy, the answer to your question is the General Fund. All the millions will
come from that fund so we can build fewer parks, roads etc. so that we can fund
this expensive initiative.
There are so many misconceptions on these posts.
The 'union' cannot legally challenge the constitutionality of the bill till it is a law. If vouchers as they stand are ratified by the voters those legal challenges may follow (I do expect those if religious private schools accept vouchers).
The Union having power was a pretty funny assertion. Sorry, but the omnipotent Union as the paid advertisements from the outside special interest groups would hope voters believe, is largely a powerless group. They provide high-quality training and negotiate salaries and benefits, but that is about all they accomplish. They are largely unsuccessful in getting candidates that reflect their views into office.
There is this great belief that new private schools will spring up if vouchers pass. Some will. But honestly, go read the bill. The need for three months of operating expenses will make high growth in the private school industry less likely.
There is also the simple fact that Private schools still have the power to exclude. They won't accept every kid who walks in the door. They can screen and take the best kids.
There are so many misconceptions on these posts.
The 'union' cannot legally challenge the constitutionality of the bill till it is a law. If vouchers as they stand are ratified by the voters those legal challenges may follow (I do expect those if religious private schools accept vouchers).
The Union having power was a pretty funny assertion. Sorry, but the omnipotent Union as the paid advertisements from the outside special interest groups would hope voters believe, is largely a powerless group. They provide high-quality training and negotiate salaries and benefits, but that is about all they accomplish. They are largely unsuccessful in getting candidates that reflect their views into office.
There is this great belief that new private schools will spring up if vouchers pass. Some will. But honestly, go read the bill. The need for three months of operating expenses will make high growth in the private school industry less likely.
There is also the simple fact that Private schools still have the power to exclude. They won't accept every kid who walks in the door. They can screen and take the best kids.
Teri | 11:06 p.m. Sept. 16, 2007
Mr. Eyre states "�the other legitimate reason is you
don't trust parents to know what is best for their kid."
Wow, so you know what is best for my kid? Really, how is it that a total stranger would know what is �better for my kid(s)� My daughter attended a public school through her 5th grade year, they wouldn�t test her for dyslexia, because if she had it then they have to provide a teacher for her. So we spent the $150 to have her tested to find out she has it. Public school had her with a resource teacher who is partially deaf so her speaking was very hard to understand, my daughter would mimick how she pronounced her words. At the end of 5th grade she was at a 3rd grade reading level. I was lucky enough to get her into the charter school where the reading and intervention programs are their to help a child get out. Not like her resource where they wanted her to �accept her disability� in one year she now reads at a 5.8 grade reading level. Thanks to my choice of getting her into a different school.
Nobody knows what is better for my children other than maybe my husband, let our tax dollars help out the school we send our children to, it is only fair. Besides if some of these school district heads would cut dollars on their offices maybe more could be spent on education of our children which is where the tax dollars should go!
Wow, so you know what is best for my kid? Really, how is it that a total stranger would know what is �better for my kid(s)� My daughter attended a public school through her 5th grade year, they wouldn�t test her for dyslexia, because if she had it then they have to provide a teacher for her. So we spent the $150 to have her tested to find out she has it. Public school had her with a resource teacher who is partially deaf so her speaking was very hard to understand, my daughter would mimick how she pronounced her words. At the end of 5th grade she was at a 3rd grade reading level. I was lucky enough to get her into the charter school where the reading and intervention programs are their to help a child get out. Not like her resource where they wanted her to �accept her disability� in one year she now reads at a 5.8 grade reading level. Thanks to my choice of getting her into a different school.
Nobody knows what is better for my children other than maybe my husband, let our tax dollars help out the school we send our children to, it is only fair. Besides if some of these school district heads would cut dollars on their offices maybe more could be spent on education of our children which is where the tax dollars should go!
Marta | 11:07 a.m. Sept. 19, 2007
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what
you've got!"
Projections say that only 20% of voters will turn out to the polls this November. Opponents of this bill are sure that since many polling places are in schools, the ones who will be casting votes will be public school employees. Convenient! The NEA has donated $1.5 Million into campaigning against this bill. $1.5 million is a lot to campaign to parents who should care deeply about this issue! What is it they are guarding?
I would challenge you to visit the websites for both sides and follow their links to the research that has been done to back up their stance. Read carefully to see if you agree with the findings they claim. Knowledge is power! Take time to learn yourself.
Let�s give our kids access to real knowledge and not just select portions approved and sanctioned by the UEA! What�s your family having for dinner? Is it liver and broccoli, dictated by the UEA? Yuck!
Please tell your friends to take the time to Vote FOR 1 so our school system isn�t strangled once again!
Projections say that only 20% of voters will turn out to the polls this November. Opponents of this bill are sure that since many polling places are in schools, the ones who will be casting votes will be public school employees. Convenient! The NEA has donated $1.5 Million into campaigning against this bill. $1.5 million is a lot to campaign to parents who should care deeply about this issue! What is it they are guarding?
I would challenge you to visit the websites for both sides and follow their links to the research that has been done to back up their stance. Read carefully to see if you agree with the findings they claim. Knowledge is power! Take time to learn yourself.
Let�s give our kids access to real knowledge and not just select portions approved and sanctioned by the UEA! What�s your family having for dinner? Is it liver and broccoli, dictated by the UEA? Yuck!
Please tell your friends to take the time to Vote FOR 1 so our school system isn�t strangled once again!
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Too often reporters slant their articles one way or the other, but this article presents the facts in a way where the reader is empowered to come to a conclusion.
Excellent job!