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U.S. ruling may impact tuition for illegals in Utah
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At least I remember the 2 years being college credit. Can anyone shed light on that?
You make a very good point in stating that the law is not discriminatory against out-of-state students, becaue of the 3-year requirement. Unfortunately, you then follow it up with a really bad analogy to obtaining a driver's license. Many illegal aliens pay thousands of dollars to enter the country illegally, so it's not a case of them not being able to find the money. There are terrible delays in obtaining citizenship, and if your point is that those delays should be reduced, I agree completely with you. In fact, I believe that we should allow a great deal more legal immigration than we do. However, there is something to be said for enforcing what laws you have; to do otherwise breeds contempt for all law. Whether it is fair, compassionate, or anything else, illegal immigrants have broken the law, and they should not be granted additional privileges while they are continuing to break the law. By all means, provide a way for them to rectify their illegal status, especially if their illegal status is a result of the choices of their parents, rather than their own conscious choice, but don't look the other way when illegal activity is occurring.
If they can be deported for being here and working here than they need to be deported for going to schooll here. Information is being withheld from government agencies by the state. Employers can be fined and arrested for their illegal part in the employment of ILLEGALS. School officials should be arrested for their part in assisting ILLEGAL to remain in the country.
They do not have access to government loans or scholarships. I know kids that are receiving this opportunity and is not a walk in the park! They have to work and go to school and pay tuition at the beginning of the semester! cold cash! Something that many of our native born youth does not want to do! Let's end this debate and allow the hard working people with not criminal records stay and allow them to make a contribution to society.
..."Obtaining U.S. citizenship is not like obtaining a drivers license. It costs thousands and thousands of dollars and has a delays of ten years or more. What would you do if your drivers license cost $10,000 and was delayed at least 10 years? Drive anyway? I thought so"
So what? As stated earlier, your analogy is worse than useless. Citizenship has never been required to attend school. My wife (LEGAL immigrant) is eligible for resident tuition and has been for 2 years, even though she's only been here in the US for three. Why? She came here LEGALLY.
As for OneVote's statement, I fail to understand it. Are you complaining that since your children and yourself were born in Utah that you deserve RESIDENT tuition? You stated they/you were NATIVE Utahns. So what? There is no Native/Non-Native tuition scale. If you don't live here you're not RESIDENTS and don't pay state taxes here and don't deserve the benefit from them. Just as most illegals, even though they live here, don't pay into the cofferes that subsidize the price breaks in tuition.
Some people are just "thick" I guess. :(
Decades ago the US Supreme Court decided that the documentally challenged have a constitutional right to a taxpayer financed public education. By Supreme Court edict, anyone who can get across the border, legally or illegally, can go to public school at taxpayer expense. No wonder few bother with visa requirements.
In recent years, politically correct politicians have added the burden of college education for illegals to the taxpayers. To change the laws, we must change the politicians. Bennett, Hatch, and Cannon need to go, along with all others who favor special treatment at taxpayer expense for illegals.
Why even quibble over state residency in such a ludicrous situation?
Information at www.sa.utah.edu states, "the institutional policy cannot be more lenient than the new one year rule or harsher than the requirement of 60 hours or living in Utah for three years.
Undergraduate Domestic Non-resident Students must:
1) Reside in Utah for 12 continuous months, starting July 1, 2007 or anytime thereafter.
2) Not be claimed as a dependent on the tax returns of a person who is not a resident of Utah.
3) Take steps to establish intent to become a resdient OF Utah, for example obtaining a Utah driver's license, within a reasonable period prior to application.
4) Submit an application for resident reclassification by term deadline.
It doesn't take 10 years and thousands of dollars to become a citizen of the United States. It takes less than $500 and usually less than a year. Legal imigration to the US takes a bit more effort, but that is the price one pays for the privilage of become a legal resident.
I resent the fact that illegal imigrants are allowed any status other than criminal status. When you break the law that is what you are.
That said, is it true that criminals in our prisons can take college courses and receive degrees without paying any tuition at all. If you want to complain about something complain about that!!
that is called being a hypocrite.
To Kelli; such noble gestures but I don't see you offering to fund your enterprise to educate all the Hispanics. Maybe you should write a letter to their home countries leaders and express how nice it would be if they would educate their population so that we didn't have to. By the way, we are not condemning them to live here as substandard citizens. They aren't citizens at all. They are here illegally.
And to SLC Imm, your suggestion of letting them pay a fine so they can be citizens is a slap in the face to the thousands and thousands of people around the world who are waiting in line to come here legally since they will most likely get bumped to the back of the line. Is that fair?
They don't refuse to learn English, demand government services in their own language, commit identity fraud to illegally gain employment, refuse to learn to drive properly, and then suck down an average of $30,000.00 per year per household of taxpayer-funded welfare benefits (including taxpayer-funded education, healthcare, cash welfare payments, food stamps, free lunches, etc.).
Individuals who have no intention of actually immigrating to America are either:
A) legal guest workers -or-
B) ILLegal Aliens
The former are welcome, but the latter aren't. Illegal aliens commit a far higher percentage of felonies than American citizens do, they rape and murder more often, they molest children more often, they commit fraud more often, and generally speaking, they don't respect the law any more than they did when they illegally invaded our country.
As for the pathetic argument that American Indians are the only legals, just remember that their ancestors didn't arrive until about 600 B.C., so if you're going to use such convoluted logic, American Indians are illegal immigrants too. Please don't be so ignorant.
What Supreme Court cases are you making reference to?
I have worked hard, very hard to become a student at the University of Utah where I am currently enrolled. I absolutely am not in agreement illegal aliens should not only receive in-state tuition, but should not be admitted into ANY college. The children�s parents made a stupid decision to move to the US illegally, life is hard. If these individuals are old enough to be in college, they are old enough to become legal. If you want something bad enough, you will do whatever it takes to get it, correct?
My mother teaches English as a Second Language in high school. She tells me everyday these kids don�t care about receiving an education. In fact, they are disturbing the children interested in learning. The reason test scores are low is these students shouldn�t be in the grade level they are. It�s not the fault of a teacher, they are trying. Try dealing with someone who doesn�t know a drop of English and is placed at a 10th grade reading level and you have to bring them up to speed by test time.
This shouldn�t be a problem because there is a simple solution, do not allow illegal immigrants admission into college, bottom line. If they want to have the privilege, yes higher education is a privilege not a right, become a legal citizen of the United States.
I liked what you have to say, but would add an ammendment, partly in rebuttal to some of the comments here. Not all laws are created equal. Going over the speed limit is illegal, but everyone does it, including cops, especially since some speed limits are ridiculous. The people that cross the border illegally do it out of desperation and with great risk. No, that doesn't make it right, but nor is right to just condemn them all as vile "invaders." There needs to be a way to come legally and a reasonable way to deal with those who are here. And deporting everyone is definitely not reasonable.
If you don't think that Utah's sanctuary policies don't serve the purposes of the cheap labor employers, I suggest that you read up on economics a little. Wages, like products and services are determined by supply and demand. Minimum wages are a distortion. Just as the value of products (oil for example: If we fueled are cars on water, what would oil be worth?)can be controlled by controlling supply, wages can be depressed by flooding the labor market. (especially the unskilled market)Just as you don't wish to pay more than a couple of bucks for your hamburger, employers don't want to pay anymore than they have to for labor. In fact they would pay zero if they could. (Read up on Ferdinand LaSal's "Iron Law of Wages Theory.") If the work doesn't produce a subsistence wage the worker will have to be subsidized, either by charity or the government(taxes).
Thank you Utah! Thank you U.S.
Oh! Spanish Fork: don't waste your time trying to impart Econ 101 on SCL Imm. "supply" and "demand" are not monosyllabic words
"WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"
Don't be a fool... go ahead, do it! Throw them away. Move to Mexico and come back for the easy good life.
Yeaaaaa, riiiiiiiight!!
In ten years, (Phase 2,3,etc) solutions would follow naturally.
any illegal alien, of any age. Special interests in
the state have chosen to do so.
Would not the money spent on illegal aliens be at
the least be better spent on legal citizens of the
state and the country as a whole?
Whoever harbors, shelters, conceals, transports and
or aids illegal aliens commits a felony offense.
(United States Code Sections 1324+1325).
Believe it or not Sony Bonno said it best when asked
about illegal immigration, what do you think about
illegal immigration? "Well it's illegal is it not?"
more so, I have read a lot of the comments here, and it is apparent that people are against giving undocumented students an opportunity to get better educated becuase they are scared of a little competition. I mean, if anything, having more educated people will drive up competition, and those capable and competent will make it, while the mediaocre and lazy people will just wine and become bitter biggots that scapegoat immigrants for their innability to cope with any challenges, and their utter sence of failure.
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Consider the timeline: the out-of-state U.S. citizen gains the ability to pay in-state tuition in only two years. Any illegal immigrant, no matter how long they have lived in Utah, is required to attend three years of in-state high school and graduate before becoming eligible for in-state tuition. Never mind the fact that an out-of-state U.S. citizen may apply for in-state Utah tuition at any age in preparation to attend a Utah college. However, how many illegal immigrants plan and prepare to attend a Utah high school while age 14/15 and in their 9th grade year? Not many, except those who also previously attended their 8th year in Utah.
To Rep. Glenn Donnelson and all other detractors, this law is not a hand-out to law breakers, but a hand-up to children who have applied themselves in school so as to improve their lives and their contribution to society. Have a heart!
Obtaining U.S. citizenship is not like obtaining a drivers license. It costs thousands and thousands of dollars and has a delays of ten years or more. What would you do if your drivers license cost $10,000 and was delayed at least 10 years? Drive anyway? I thought so.