Deseret News | Reader comments: Fee-for-all: We're paying more to play in Utah's forests, parklands

Reader comments
Fee-for-all: We're paying more to play in Utah's forests, parklands

MICHAEL SULLIVAN | 2:52 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

IF OUR ELECTIVE OFFICIAL SPENT OUR TAX DOLLARS FOR THE GOOD OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN AMERICA, INSTEAD OF GIVING OUR MONEY TO HALLIBURTONS' RAT HOLES, THIS WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING...

Anonymous | 7:57 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

A $75 yearly state pass is a bargain. Hopefully some people will stay away from the parks if they do not like to pay. The parks are to crowded now.

park goer | 10:27 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

It's better to have people who visit pay more than everyone including those who don't visit pay more.
Very libertarian to pay for what you use.
Will reduce congestion as well, just like toll roads.
Since we care about the parks, we should pay more - they're expensive to maintain security for etc. (rangers, police, etc).

Comments continue below

John | 10:40 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

If the American people had had a spine, and stood up for their rights, fees to enter Mirror Lake and AF Canyon would not be collected. Having yelled long and loud for years to everyone I know about how the Forest Service is charging fees that Congress specifically has declared they may not, it about time some newspaper reported on this travesty.

National Parks entrance fees are scheduled to almost all double in the next three years, and after that they will be tied to inflation, only they will never decrease, only increase when inflation rises.

Americans are too ignorant, and too wimped out to even care that the forests are being closed, under the Forest Service claim that they cannot afford to keep them open, as if it costs money for the forest to exist. In five years, all that land will be open again, under private corporate control, with rather large fees, and controlled "areas of enjoyment" One such company already in negotiations, is known as Disney corporation.

Its too late. Like so many other bad choices, Americans have dedicated their time to moaning about the left or the right, complaining 24/7 about the war, and crying long and loud that the government is not giving them enough free stuff, so that now, its like some big shock, that that same government, is taking away our land as well.

Too bad Americans. You asked for this, no learn to deal with the consequences of living in a socialist country, intstead of a free republic. Game over

Tom | 10:45 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

It might not be so bad if there we could really seel improvement, or even maintenance being done. Wasatch Mountain State Park has seen very little improvement, for example. The roads through the campground are deteriorating and some of the picnic table beside the campgrounds are unusable. The campoing slots themselves are too small for present day vehicles. They worked when I had a tent trailer, but they are not good with thirty foot trailers, RV's, or 5th Wheels.

Fish Lake National Forest campgrounds are little changed from fifty years ago. Even some of the "doubles" are not big enough.

It is not only a matter of price. If you look at the parks in our ajoining states you will find quite a difference in quality. While we have fantastic things to see, the quality of our picnic and camping areas are abismal and are not looking to improve. In other words, the part the state doesn't need to improve, the scenery, is fine but the part the state should be maintaining seems to be forgotten.

Gary | 11:52 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

I go to Lake Powell every year and the fees continue to go up with no improvements. You pay to get into the park and you pay to camp in the park but still no improvements. We go to Stanton Creek it is primitive camping but still if you are paying that much to be there there needs to be plenty of facilities. (ie: bathrooms, good roads, & etc.)

Wayne | 11:55 a.m. Sept. 2, 2007

Obscene is the only word for the fees now being asked. Taxes are already paid to support these facilities. The state is already running an enormous surplus.

We once enjoyed the ranger talks up Millcreek Canyon for FREE many years back. Our children looked forward to these anxiously. They did away with these wonderful and informative talks, and instead, replaced them with a "ranger" whose only job was to collect fees. The canyon was converted to a profit center.

Our property taxes have increased at the rate or 41% per year, each year, for the past 12 years. NOW, fees are escalating out of sight also. Too much is too much. Anyone who can sit passively and find anything good in these fee increases better know the past better.

Such horrid fees slam the door in the face of the poor and middle class, leaving these parks open only to the rich and wealthy.

I commend Boise, for example. We visited their Albertson's Park and another associated park all alive with wildlife. It had no fences, was open, FREE, and was a shining jewel for the area. You felt nature with every breath because there was no fence to hold "all ohers out" and make you feel like a prisoner that had no public rights.

For example, if the Liberty Park Aviary were made free, that would improve that facility 1,000% Our past visits noticed a terrible decline in numbers visiting this aviary.

leroy | 12:50 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

I think its great, I hope they keep jacking up the prices too, far as I am concerned, once anyplace gets "park" status it is ruined, therefore I dont visit any of the Federal,State or Local "Zoo's"

B Hopkins | 1:06 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

John has the right to stay home and not use the state parks, with thier picnic tables and bowerys and clean beaches and garbage pickup.

A family of 5 will drop $50 to go to a 2 hour movie, but $10 for a full day use of a park is outrageous?

James | 3:39 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

They tried to charge me ten to park in a dirt parking lot in a National Forest in Oregon. I didn't pay and I haven't returned.

We should look at the conservative point of view. We have the Internet. Everyone knows about Ebay. We should let the free market work. There are so many spots to camp or deer hunting licenses. Let people bid on them. If camping is important to you on Labor day weekend, you can get that spot. You bid for it.

The same with hunting. Bid for tags.

Nell | 4:03 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

How sad! What happened to freedom to enjoy our natural resources. Does this mean that only the rich can enjoy them? What really irritates me is to find that reservations to camp are made at a national company. They aren't even employees of the Parks system. They wouldn't contract to do that if it wasn't a highly profitable operation. Some how if our taxes are paying for upkeep, perhaps we need to let the fees be fees the average person can pay.
I think an audit of the finances of the National and States park system should be done.

DanO | 4:54 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

I'm confused at John's logic. Somehow he decries private corporations then turns it around to say it's the socialist's fault. But his conspiracy theory about Disney buying the parks just makes me think he's off his meds.

Rob | 5:07 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

I agree that these parks are treasures that every American should have the right to enjoy, but I also see fees as a necessary evil to maintain these magnificent places. What if there were a fee discount program for low income families? Doesn't California already do this, or am I just pulling that out of my nose?

Anonymous | 5:35 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

It is frustrating to see the prices go up. I acknowledge the need to maintain parks, and try to do what I can to keep them down (cleaning my own trash, as well as the trash of others... etc) really wish we could find other ways to do it. As a lower-income family, we don't "drop $50 to go to a 2 hour movie", and there are a lot of things that my family misses out on because of increasing prices. We have enjoyed being able to run up the canyon for hikes or primitive camping. I now live by a canyon with free areas so we can do this, but I remember back when AF canyon started charging that we stopped going as often as we had done previously.

SMH | 6:49 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

In traveling from Oklahoma to SLC, and wanting to detour up through St.George to visit my Grandma on the way, we followed our map, and the shortest route took us through Zions National Park. We were charged an outrageous $25. Just because we needed to drive on the road to make it through to St.George. We were not there to camp or hike, with our little children in the car, we wanted to take the faster route. This was such a kick in the face, and a total waste of our cash.

John | 7:17 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

The private corporations buying the land is not a conspiracy theory, but it does show how stupid some people are, that they will label anything they don't understand.

As for paying for tables and clean beaches? What about people who use the land, to hike the back country, and spend an hour sitting on the bank of a cool stream on a hot day. Going about dissin people because for some reason, you figure $50 for a movie is anything close to using the outdoors, ignores the fact that WE OWN the land, and we pay to go to the movies, because someone else owns the theatre.

The ignorance of the citizen is frightening.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=78663

Time for people to kiss their country goodbye. You all sat on your butts and watched it go away because you had Walmarts, cell phones, and HDTV. Soon, you will pay the price for that attitude. Gen-X? Ha. You gave it away.

Comments about someone being off their meds, belong in usenet, not on a forum like this. Grow up.

Anonymous | 8:52 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

Highway 150, the "Mirror Lake Highway" is a state owned and maintained road paid for through taxes on motor fuels. All of the picnic and camping sites along the highway are managed by the National Forrest Service and a fee is collected each day you use them. So what is this $3.00, soon to be $6.00 really used for?

Anonymous | 9:08 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

You need a class in advanced conservative studies. If you opened up bidding in Utah for elk permits there are wealthy people who would pay $2500. Let the inviable hand of free market work its miracles. Utah would get a better class of hunter. These guys will tip more, stop at nice restaurants and rent luxury cabin. This gives employment to locals. Cabin's need their beds made. Toilets must be cleaned. A raising tide raises all boats.

The same is true for Zion. Charging more attacks more successful people.

Quit whine about prices. Go get a better job!

Anonymous | 9:20 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

When I was little, Millcreek Canyon was starting to go downhill. I remember seeing a ton of garbage everytime we went. As it changed to a fee area, I noticed things beginning to change.(Fees are a necessary evil sometimes too keep some people away and to improve things overall.)
(I am not wealthy, I don't go to movies ever! It costs too much!- In answer to the arguement listed above) Charging $20 or more is outrageous. Why do we continue to raise fees for everything?
Case in point, when I was in high school you could go night skiing for under $10. Now it is only a rich man's sport. I spoke to a ski instructor in park city a few years back, when my children got to participate in a free lesson. The ski instructor told me he rarely met Utah natives on the slopes. *It's because it is too darn expensive for most of us.
If we start making fees too much for the average family to afford, Utah natives will be unable to enjoy our own backyard.

treehugger | 10:38 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

I guess, but if everyone would clean up after theirself and maybe someone else the fees would not be in neccesary

Anonymous | 11:30 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

So what! The number of ski days are up in Utah. Mitt has a nice home in Park City. I'm sure he employs a maid. That of those jobs for Utahans selling left tickets to Californians. I Bus full of Europeans traveling to Zion have more to spend than a Utahan driving through. The Euro has never been worth more. If you want to ski get a job that pays more! Utahans don't have a entitlement to ski.

L | 2:14 p.m. Sept. 3, 2007

The article states: "The state parks and recreation board last month voted to raise day-use, camping and boat-mooring fees at several locations, pending public comment and administrative approval. Annual passes would go up $5 to $75."

WOW - Where do we send our comment, I don't agree with that any more than I would agree with a couple of loaves of bread going from $5 to $75

I guess I am not on the mailing list that asks for comments so I only have the news article but it seems so extreme could it be that the Deseret Morning News has messed up the figures?

P Maloy | 12:01 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

I doubt that anyone would argue that those who use public parks shouldn't pay something. I think the true issue is when the fee is not in balance with the level of use. I recently took a youth group to a ranch near Zion's National Park. There were 3 vehicles in our group and all 3 drivers were required to pay $25 just to drive from the south entrance to the east entrance. That is literally highway robbery! There may be some who would say don't go if you can't afford it, but let's remember that public parks were intended to be available for the public, that means all of us, not just the rich.

M | 4:57 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

did ANYONE notice the picture? cliff jumping is THE leading cause of death & injury at Lake Powell. jumping from higher than 15' is illegal. your photographer, reporter, editor, etc are all terribly negligent for printing, and thus encouraging, this kind of behavior.

Park Lover | 6:03 p.m. Sept. 4, 2007

If you don't want to pay high entrance fees you should write your congressman and senator to complain. Congress has failed to adequately fund our national parks and forests in recent years. Instead of funding the parks congress first passed the Fee Demo Program and then the Federal Lands and Recreation Enhancement Act in lieu of directly funding these agencies.

Alex | 11:17 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I do not object to paying for camping overnight. I do object to paying for day use parking on public lands for bird watching, etc.

Here in Washington State we had a day use fee for our state parks which was was pulled after just a few years. http://homepage.mac.com/aleko/WashingtonStateParksFees.html If you go camping in state parks here, look out for "extra vehicle fees". Even if your extra vehicle fits on the pad (no hook-ups) where an RV would go, you have not paid for your site for the weekend with a basic fee, until you have paid a $10 per night extra vehicle fee. No extra vehicle fee is charged for an RV towing a car. I sent a note to our state parks asking about this and was told extra vehicle fees are not designed to raise extra funds, but are designed to discourage extra vehicles in the parks.

We have several state, local and federal jurisdictions here that charge a day use fee to park on public lands. Keeping track of the different jurisdictions and paying each fee for a day's outing can be overwhelming to the average person.

Alex

Port Hadlock, WA

ted weintraub | 11:32 a.m. Oct. 29, 2007

After reading about fee increase in National and State parks, I tend to agree with the people that say we really need to look at these increases, I hate to see our Federal and State parks price us out of camping, sure some people welcome the increase, well, they can aford the increase, what about the people that are on a limited budget, there only enjoyment is camping, some of these people work 2 or 3 jobs to stay alive. I would like to know how many volunteers are working in State and Federal parks, I through they are to help taking up the slack of park employees

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