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Mountain Meadows: Church asked to turn over site, take names off records

A cheap shot after a nasty movie. The church should carry on exactly as it is.

"Other historical accounts ...have erroneously portrayed Young as the one who ordered the massacre."

How can someone reporting the news make a statement like that? You could say that there is disagreement, but a comment like that belongs in op-ed. What kind of NEWS reporting is this?

Please leave the care of this sacred holy ground under the LDS church stewardship.
Just to see the pictures of this site I can feel the sacredness of this area. And I shed a tear.
When you come to the area, offer a prayer, and thank your Father in Heaven for those who died here and those who remain. Let love and forgiveness heal the heart. Thankyou.

Orson Pratt was "assinated" while running off with another man's wife to make her his polygamous wife. She had already spirited her children off. Sounds justified to me. Anyone dispute thos facts? Its what I've heard it may or may not be true/

1-GIVE US YOUR LANDS, which don't belong to us.

2-GIVE US YOUR DIARIES, JOURNALS, PAPERS etc. which don't belong to us.

3-GIVE US YOUR RELIGION, (baptisms for the dead 1 Cor. 15:29), which
does not belong to us.


The LDS Church has been great stewards of this property for many
years and treated it with respect and dignity, as hallowed ground.

Now here comes the demands of rabble rousers, with their false
accusations and pathetic anti Mormon film september dawn. Universally
panned by critics worlwide.


If this keeps up, then maybe it's time to put out
"NO TRESPASSING" signs.


The Mormons have not been paid one cent for the
properties stolen from them. Let alone the hundreds upon hundreds who
lost their lives because of the persecutions they endured.




The case can just as well be made that compensation should be
given to the Mormons for the properties stolen from them in Ohio,
Missouri, and Illinois.

In fact, some of the relatives of these groups, now making irrational
demands, may have even been involved in the wrongs done to the Mormons
in the mid-west.

The atrocities committed on the Fancher wagon train were no greater
nor less than those committed upon the Native Americans, African
Americans, the Mormons, or the Witches of Salem.

It's a long line. Q up.

What these groups are trying to establish is complicity of Brigham
Young and the Church itself. History does not support this and yet,
they don't care. Beware of those who seek not truth and attempt to
re-write history to satisfy their own objectives. In actuality they
are trolling for dollars, a big payday.

Stop the Grandstanding!


There is a "Spitit of Contention" in the air, and it's not the Mormon's
who are perpetrating it.

Mr. Hackman, I am surprised that you are so incredulous by the statement: "Other historical accounts ...have erroneously portrayed Young as the one who ordered the massacre."

Clearly, this author has presented evidence from unbiased experts PROVING Young was not involved. In the previous paragraph the author states: "A book by three LDS Church historians detailing their research into the events is scheduled for publication by Oxford University Press in the near future."

What more evidence could you want? It's in a book, by no less than THREE historians. Maybe it was just one historian I would be suspicious, but we are talking about THREEE historians. That's good enough for me.

cjarizona writes:

"Beware of those who seek not truth and attempt to
re-write history to satisfy their own objectives."

I can't help wondering who cjarizona voted for in the last presidential election.

If if the hit-piece "September Dawn" isn't enough, the rabid Mormon-haters want another P.R. feather to put in their hat.

Doen't the Federal Government have enough to care for? This memorial might draw a couple dozen visitors a year. Should the Govenment be spending its funds to assauge a few individuals?

cjarizona has a good point!
This story needs to be told in its complete historical context. We have a long institutional memory, something that seems to be lacking among the American Mainstream. I am all for seeking reparations, but that would mean that WE would have to get in line. Be gratefull that the winds of hell are still raging for there must be opposition in all things; right?

It sounds as if cjarizona is trying to justify the MMM. You can't justify it by saying it was payback. These were innocent people AND CHILDREN. It was a terrible tragedy. The real truth about it will probably never be known. Let the dead rest. BUT the federal government has never been able to run anything efficiently. Yes, they will change money, a lot. They will let it run down if there is not enough money and close it. You will have to pick your way through the weeds. The other group that wants control has no idea where they are going to get the money. It is being handled carefully and respectfully at this time and the LDS church has plenty of money to maintain it. It is time for peace and healing. I don't think I would want to take on the LDS church on this issue either in the courts or out of it.

To Fred -

Please get your facts correct. It was Parely P. Pratt who was murdered....and no, it was not justified.

The trouble with posts is you can't hear inflections or see facial expression, so I cannot tell if Alex's comment is sarcastic or not.

But let me clarify. The author made a statement of opinion. She sides with three LDS historians. It would be natural for any LDS historian to have a bias. When I read a book by Al Franken or Rush Limbaugh, I am aware that they will have a bias. It doesn't make it wrong, I just need to take that into account.

There are historians who would argue that Brigham Young was involved. His 19th wife, Ann Eliza Young, in her autobiography claims he planned it from start to finish. One may choose not to believe these points, but that is my argument... it is about who you CHOOSE to believe. If you are going to be making choices, rather than reporting news, your article belongs in the opinion section. I am not so concerned about an LDS leader or this argument of history, but on HOW the NEWS is reported.

Religious hysteria is a phenomena that we should all be familiar with - Sept.11 for example. Try reading Krakaur's book,"Under the Banner of Heaven" for a reporters view. MMM was an horrific example of paranoia and hysteria, but no religion or culture is completely immune. I would like to see the LDS Church apologize. Whether or not the order came from B.Young....who knows for certain. Does it matter at this point?

As anyone can see the LDS church beautifully maintains anything that they own. Why not let this ground that they do own, be beautifully maintained. People need to spend more time improving themselves instead of going after the LDS church every chance they get.

Hombre,
My bad! I'm no expert, I was just wondering if it was true that Parley Pratt was killed while running off with another man's wife. There are two sides to every story and even the persecution put upon early Mormons had a causation. Remember when the Hare Krishna type cult tried to take over the town in Oregon? I'm sure to the people of Missouri a mass immigration of people with strange (to them anyway) religious beliefs was threatening. Especially when the early Mormons tried to take over politically. And aggressively tried to convert family members to the new religion. Much like many LDS folks in Utah tell gentiles to leave if they don't like the LDS influence, the Missouri pioneers reacted to new influences. Unfortunately they reacted terribly. I am not justifying or defending Missourians. Just trying to use the logic used by posters here to mitigate the actions at Mountain Meadows.

Have "ERRONEOUSLY" portrayed Brigham Young as the one who ordered the massacre.

Thought you'd slip that one by eh Carrie. Sorry, that's bad and biased journalism. There's argument on that point and you claimed it as an error. Your Mutual teacher might give you brownie points for that, but intelligent readers won't. C'mon Deseret News--you are at your best when you deliver the news fairly, (which, I have to admit, you usually do).

wow when you know your history. let's see.. Utah last to give Native Americans the right to vote, 1957, The JUSTICE DEPT had to force San Juan County Courts to allow Native Americans in the Jury Pool(this with in the last 5 years) as the excuse given by said STEWARDS was "oh they don't have phones"//JUST MAKE SURE YOU , WATCH WHERE YOU DRINK YOUR DOWN THIS WAY!too many tailing sites to remember..the good ol' boy system is alive and well down here for sure...and it comes from the all is well in Zion so you had better be a Lion...how ironic that Native Americans actually saved the mormons on their trek out here as they were given permission to stay on Native Land when being hunted down by the mobs..yet they give more recognition to a bird than these human beings for their saving them during one the most roughest winters ever! Then to use Indians again to cover up this event just gives credence or questions to a system they continue in education when dealing with the Natives so there are no more masscres in this area again as much is being questioned right now by other people in this area!!

If you have not actually been to the Mountain Meadows Monument site, I would strongly encourage you to go there. It's a beautiful, quiet spot, well maintained and cared for by the LDS Church. Anyone can see that the Church has done an excellent job of caring for and preserving the site. The Church has also placed additional information regarding the massacre and the other graves in the area, a beautiful walking trail and view area, complete with details about where and how the massacre took place. I cannot understand why this excellent and respectful maintenance of this site is not good enough for those groups that want the Church to relinquish stewardship of the property.
As for those who continue to erroneously believe that the LDS Church attempts to deny the fact of the massacre or sweep it under the rug, you clearly have not looked beyond the anti-Mormon propaganda. Hate the Church if you must, but at least do your homework first. Start by actually GOING TO the site. Yes, take your physical body to the actual location. Explore the site. Read the information provided there. Next, get a copy of the September 2007 edition of the LDS Church's OFFICIAL publication, The Ensign, and read the article regarding Mountain Meadows. THEN try to tell me the Church is attempting to hide or deny the massacre.

After reading through all the commentaries from everyone, I find it very sad that most of them still want to be contentious. We should all have more charity which is what Jesus Christ wanted. As He says 'I will forgive whom I will, but of you it is required to forgive all others'. When the Lord comes to reign on the earth again He will decide who has done wrong. It's not down to us. When reporting facts you really should have them all, or report none. In this case all the facts don't seem to be available. Yes it was a horrendous crime that happened. I'm, abhorred by it, but I also know that many horrendous crimes have been committed through out history and that many more will be. It's a very sad commentary on all the human race. Please let us work together in peace to prevent any other "crimes' happening again. After all we are all brothers and sisters.

I love to hear the Church cry Foul. It is quite obvious that most of you have only read "Church Approved" history. Sure history is biased, but to act like Brigham Young, who had his hand in EVERYTHING that went on in Utah, was ignorant to this, you are in denial. Did he order it? Who knows? I think so, but I don't know for sure. Have you read any books by Juanita Brooks? It may be frowned upon by your Bishop since it isn't "Faith Promoting". But I am very skeptical about any organization that tells you to ONLY read "Pro" books, because others might hurt your testimony. Red flag?
Think about this: If the families of the people who shot Joseph Smith owned the land where is grave was, wouldn't you be saying that the Church should maintain that site? I assume you would. I know you believe it is a perfect Church, but for being perfect it sure has a lot of skeletons in the closet.
Any not agreeing with the church doesn't make me ANTI-Mormon. You know people can disagree without being an ANTI-Mormon. I'm no more Anti-Mormon than I am Anti-Religion is general. It's all the same to me anyway; I just deal with Mormons more often.
Anyway, go pray about it or something. God may or may not answer.