Deseret News | Reader comments: Voucher foes roll out a bus tour

Reader comments
Voucher foes roll out a bus tour

Evan | 7:17 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

The bus said Salt Lake County School District on it.

Headplate | 7:50 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Let me get this straight: On one hand you have right wing extremists and their stooges in the legislature, and the other hand you have arrogant public school bureaucracies and self indulging teachers unions. Its too bad someone has to win this fight. A lot of times I determine my position on a issue based on which groups are in support or opposition. On this issue I am completely stumped, I don't trust either side as being capable of having a logical or reasoned position.

Anonymous | 8:10 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

The Bus is privately owned. No Bramblegate here.

Comments continue below

concerned | 8:28 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

"not using public resources"--but we the taxpayers pay the teachers who are obviously not teaching when they are at political rallies; furthermore, the teacher salary is siphoned off coercively to pay for union dues and thus political activities that have nothing to do with educating our kids.

Professor | 8:56 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

1. Kim Burningham said only a "few students" would benefit from vouchers. That would suggest the program will have little cost.
2. Why would Mr. Burningham and his coalition spend so much time and money to try to force their will on a "few students"? When there are more important issues to deal with?
3. Why are Utah children so far behind the rest of the industrialized countries educationally?
4. Since graduates of private schools are achieving at the same level as top industrialized nations, would vouchers give a "few more students" an opportunity for a world class education?
5. Why did Mr. Burningham and the rest of his board vote for new math standards that are not competitive with other industrialized nations? Do they think Utah students are not capable in math? Is this why they oppose vouchers?

Free Thinker | 8:59 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Well put headplate. It's too bad we have to vote between two extremes. I'd instead like to vote for a law that allows low-income children in failing schools to recieve a scholarship to a private school and not just low-income students in any school. If they are already in a good school, there's no need for the money to send them to a private school but if they are in a failing school, they shouldn't have to stay there. They should have the same free rich people do to choose their school.

Craig Johnson | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Dear "concerned",

That is incorrect. Teachers have a right to attend political rallies on their own time, which is exactly what they did. Also, no teacher is forced to pay union/association dues. It is their choice. And political activities have a lot to do with educating kids - public policy, as determined by the people, decides what classes are taught, the required credentials and licensure of the teachers, how we hold schools accountable, and how much of our trusted tax dollars will go to fund our educational programs (which in Utah remains dead last). A big problem with the flawed voucher bill is that it only provides the funding mechanism to give private schools money. It does not require any accountability for what is taught, who teaches it, how students are treated, who has a right to attend the private schools, etc., etc.. There is nothing to stop a private school from simply raising their tuition to match the amount of the voucher. You attack teachers who want to stand up against these bad bills. Do you then praise the out-of-state business interests waiting to capitalize on their passage against the majority of Utah voters' wishes?

Concerned | 10:09 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Dear Craig:
Most states force you to join the union and thus NEA money that is flowing to UT comes from coercive practices, whereas private money is purely philanthropic, i.e no one is forcing them to give money. Furthermore, I've heard many stories about union reps. strongly encouraging and peer pressuring teachers to join the union here. It's very hard to not join and not feel totally ostracized. Bottom line: I rather have my tax dollars go back to parents and not entrusted in the hands of people who want to take away our rights -- we already had the gov. sign this bill and allow us to finally have the option to educate our kids how we want to via vouchers- why do the unions want to take away this right? It sounds like they don't trust parents' judgment!

Dave Hansen | 10:09 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Craig Johnson,

Your arguments don't make sense. You state that vouchers aren't going to help anyone because private schools are just going to raise tuition.

Then you state that "out-of-state business interests" are going to make profits off of the voucher program.

So which is it? You can't eat your cake and have it, too. "Out-of-state business interests" can't make big profits off of a program that no one is going to be able to use...

It doesn't make sense, but then again, voucher opponents excel at making contradicting arguments partly because they fail to look at the facts and evaluate them objectively.

Jay | 12:13 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

The bus was rented from Serv a Bus. There is no such thing as Salt Lake County School District, so I would suppose it would be pretty hard to find a bus with that on it. A Salt Lake City School District bus drove past as the press conference was being set up and dropped of kids further south about where Tracy Aviary is located. Maybe that is where the confusion is being generated.

M. Argleben | 12:25 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Let parents have the choice. It allows them to select the best environment for our kids. Most parents will still prefer their local public schools, but as a taxpayer, I feel it's good to have options.

Voter | 2:18 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Freethinker:

I would add that the program should truly benefit low income students by capping the amount of tuition the private school can charge voucher students--as is done in the highly touted Cleveland program. Then a low income family doesn't have to come up with the remaining thousand dollars of tuition plus uniforms, plus book fees, field trip fees, lunch fees (there is no free lunch in a private school) and all the other charges that come with private education.

Professor | 5:15 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Voucher foes are short on empirical data and long on rhetoric. Simply put, the education establishment is phobic about losing control and is having a knee jerk reaction that is cosing some big bucks.

Vouch this | 11:29 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

I hate the UTA. I WANT a voucher for a new car to get to work.

Professor Gilligan | 11:33 p.m. Aug. 30, 2007

Voucher proponents are short on empirical data (wow I sound so smart) and long on hot air rhetoric. Simply put,the voucher extremists are phobic about not gaining control over forcing tax payers to subsidize their already free-choice to send their "quiver" to a private school. is that your knee jerking?

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