Reader comments
Gonzales calls it quits — Will Hatch replace him?
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Mike Ridgway | 5:17 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Well, let's consider. Here are the pros.
* It gets Orrin Hatch retired from politics 4, or 10, or 16, or 22 years earlier then if he continues as a US Senator. (Hatch is on record as promising to leave intact Strom Thurmond's record for outliving his usefulness in the US Senate, so 28- and 34-year considerations don't apply.)
* It gets Orrin Hatch out of Utah and out of Utah politics, maybe for good. (Does anyone really miss Mike Leavitt since he moved away?)
* It gets Senator Hatch off of the Sunday-morning talking-heads shows where his condescending my-party-wrong-or-wrong comments continue the nationwide slide in support for Republican elected officials.
* It creates a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Utah to send an ethical, honest-broker conservative to the US Senate.
(In the alternative, if the Republican State Central Committee declines to take advantage of said opportunity and instead elects Rob Bishop to fill Hatch's seat, it creates a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the voters in Utah's 1st Congressional District to elect an ethical conservative to the US House of Representatives.
Those are the pros.
As I see it, there's only one con -- Senator Hatch's longstanding record of propping up corruption across and even outside of the American political spectrum, exposes him as the most naked of naked emperors when it comes to having the moral authority to prosecute American citizens accused of criminal activities.
Let's reminisce shall we? BCCI. The Salt Lake Olympic Bribery Scandal. Janet Reno and the Waco investigation. The impeachment of Bill Clinton. Geneva Steele. Joe Cannon. Big Alcohol. Big Tobacco. Big Gambling. Big Drugs. And that intervention to get an international drug dealer out of jail.
That's the best this country can do to hire a lead prosecutor?
And don't even get me started on immigration.
* It gets Orrin Hatch retired from politics 4, or 10, or 16, or 22 years earlier then if he continues as a US Senator. (Hatch is on record as promising to leave intact Strom Thurmond's record for outliving his usefulness in the US Senate, so 28- and 34-year considerations don't apply.)
* It gets Orrin Hatch out of Utah and out of Utah politics, maybe for good. (Does anyone really miss Mike Leavitt since he moved away?)
* It gets Senator Hatch off of the Sunday-morning talking-heads shows where his condescending my-party-wrong-or-wrong comments continue the nationwide slide in support for Republican elected officials.
* It creates a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Utah to send an ethical, honest-broker conservative to the US Senate.
(In the alternative, if the Republican State Central Committee declines to take advantage of said opportunity and instead elects Rob Bishop to fill Hatch's seat, it creates a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the voters in Utah's 1st Congressional District to elect an ethical conservative to the US House of Representatives.
Those are the pros.
As I see it, there's only one con -- Senator Hatch's longstanding record of propping up corruption across and even outside of the American political spectrum, exposes him as the most naked of naked emperors when it comes to having the moral authority to prosecute American citizens accused of criminal activities.
Let's reminisce shall we? BCCI. The Salt Lake Olympic Bribery Scandal. Janet Reno and the Waco investigation. The impeachment of Bill Clinton. Geneva Steele. Joe Cannon. Big Alcohol. Big Tobacco. Big Gambling. Big Drugs. And that intervention to get an international drug dealer out of jail.
That's the best this country can do to hire a lead prosecutor?
And don't even get me started on immigration.
GI Mom | 6:19 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I hope he don't replace him,yet it would get him out of the Senate seat he
so loves. Probley could'nt get all that tobacco money being the AG.
Comments continue below
DustBowl | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Getting rid of Hatch would definitely benefit this state but if Shurtleff took
his place, we would be taking a giant step back.
How about this:
*Send Hatch off with a vicious "Good Luck."
*Fire Shurtleff.
*Replace both positions.
[shrug] A bit of house cleaning is just what this state needs, not merely a reshuffling.
How about this:
*Send Hatch off with a vicious "Good Luck."
*Fire Shurtleff.
*Replace both positions.
[shrug] A bit of house cleaning is just what this state needs, not merely a reshuffling.
Not a Hatch fan | 8:53 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I remember attending an election night party the night Hatch was first elected
to the Senate and speaking with his campaign manager. I think most of us
thought Sen. Hatch was someone far different from the person his subsequent
voting record has proved him to be. And his "friendship" with Teddy
Kennedy, surely a scion of a political establishment and family with values far,
far different from those Sen. Hatch professed to hold at that time. Then I read
a comment somewhere that Sen. Hatch's end goal was to serve as a Supreme
Court Justice and that his political friendships were made to that point--at
that time, Sen. Kennedy was chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Oh, how easy it is to become influenced by self-interest. And how sad!
Oh, how easy it is to become influenced by self-interest. And how sad!
Shurtleff? | 10:21 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I wonder why the focus of a potential replacement for Hatch centers on Mark
Shurtleff. There are PLENTY of capable people whom the State Central Committee
could forward to the Governor for appointment, including the Governor
himself.
Realizing that the GOP Central Committee is unlikely to forward our AG as one of the names to the Gov for appointment, the list should include the following names: Huntsman/Herbert/Bishop/Valentine/Karras
Realizing that the GOP Central Committee is unlikely to forward our AG as one of the names to the Gov for appointment, the list should include the following names: Huntsman/Herbert/Bishop/Valentine/Karras
Bruce | 10:53 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Although I don't see this as a step forward for US AG (Hatch will be just
as much of a suck-up to Bush as Gonzalez was), it would at least get Hatch out
of the Utah senate seat. He outlived his usefulness there at least two decades
ago, and I cringe every time he opens his mouth. Since we don't seem to be
smart enought to vote him out, this may be our only option.
Buzz | 11:11 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I'd like to see Hatch go, it may be the only way get rid of him. Not that
it matters, the mindless so called conservative majority of our fine state will
rubber stamp whoever the party choses to replace him.
Great! | 11:52 a.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I would love to see Hatch get "promoted" to this position, although
his recent positions seem to be more in touch with constituents on issues like
immigration, it would be nice to get a new representative. I would hate to see
Mark Shurtleff in that position, in many ways he is worse than Hatch. I would
prefer to see Steve Urqhart or someone like him get a chance.
Miss Teen South Carolina | 12:28 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because ah some
people out there in our nation don�t have maps and that I
believe that our education like such as in South Africa and ah the Iraq
everywhere like such as and I believe that they should ah our education over
here in the US should help the US or err should help South Africa and should
help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our
future.
Kevin | 12:30 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
As long as it gets Hatch out of the senate, I'd be happy to see him accept
the job.
Having him as an attorney general for a few months would be much more palatable than having him in the senate for another five years.
Having him as an attorney general for a few months would be much more palatable than having him in the senate for another five years.
Brad F. | 12:30 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Alberto Gonzales is another in a long line of GW Bush cronies who were promoted
to positions of vast power because of their blind loyalty to Dubya and his
minions. Remember former FEMA boss Mike 'you're doing a helluva job
Brownie' Brown and his inept response to Hurricane Katrina? Now look at
MSHA's top dog Richard Stickler and the quandry he's now in with the
Crandall Canyon mine disaster. Whatever happened to appointing people based on
qualifications - as opposed to being good buddies and loyal confidants.
What strikes me is that Bush is every bit as incompetant and unrepentant as these men he put great trust in.
Props to Mike Ridgway for his insightful comments, which I fully echo. Orrin Hatch, in my opinion, is a man who hides behind the cloak of the LDS faith pretending to be this goody-two-shoes, righteous man who can do no wrong. Honestly, I lost the remaining shards of respect I had for Hatch when he labled anti-war/anti-Bush protesters as 'Nutcakes' a couple years ago, in addition to his stance that it was okay to invade Iraq on the grounds of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. Gimme a break Orrin...who are you trying to kid? All the LDS blind faithful who punch the Republican ticket regardless of who the candidate?
I hope Hatch is tabbed to replace Gonzales 'cause that gets his sorry-butt out of Utah once and for all. Let's just hope Mark Shurtless doesn't try and fill his position or we're back to square one all over again.
What strikes me is that Bush is every bit as incompetant and unrepentant as these men he put great trust in.
Props to Mike Ridgway for his insightful comments, which I fully echo. Orrin Hatch, in my opinion, is a man who hides behind the cloak of the LDS faith pretending to be this goody-two-shoes, righteous man who can do no wrong. Honestly, I lost the remaining shards of respect I had for Hatch when he labled anti-war/anti-Bush protesters as 'Nutcakes' a couple years ago, in addition to his stance that it was okay to invade Iraq on the grounds of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. Gimme a break Orrin...who are you trying to kid? All the LDS blind faithful who punch the Republican ticket regardless of who the candidate?
I hope Hatch is tabbed to replace Gonzales 'cause that gets his sorry-butt out of Utah once and for all. Let's just hope Mark Shurtless doesn't try and fill his position or we're back to square one all over again.
Registered Voter | 1:03 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I voted for Hatch, and I'll do it again. It looks as though the only
people who read this column are the who are fueling up the Rocky Anderson
propaganda machine. I have a hard time believing that the moromons who rank and
file will vote for one of their own are any worse worse than those who
unequivocly will not vote for an active mormon. Moreover I grow tired of
non-mormons and ex-mormons making judgements about what is or is not in harmony
with our beliefs. If you have a problem with the policies thats fine but
don't go around trumpetting hypocrisy when you know little about the faith
and probably even less about the issue.
Kyle | 2:32 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Hatch would be crazy to take this position if offered. The Democrats are
already scheming their hatchet job for whoever takes the appointment. It's
a death wish to take any position in the Bush Administration today with the
scandal inventing, investigation obsessed Congress we currently have.
I think Democrats are afraid if they don't keep everyone in the Bush Administration busy fighting fires and non-stop investigations at home, the administration might be able to focus on their real job (finding a way to get us out of Iraq with some sort of dignity) before the Democrats can get us out (in disgrace). Failure in Iraq is the only hope Democrats have for the upcoming election.
I think Democrats are afraid if they don't keep everyone in the Bush Administration busy fighting fires and non-stop investigations at home, the administration might be able to focus on their real job (finding a way to get us out of Iraq with some sort of dignity) before the Democrats can get us out (in disgrace). Failure in Iraq is the only hope Democrats have for the upcoming election.
Leland Muir | 2:35 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
I am amased at so many great and good judges.
If you only knew what Hatch has done for this nation.
If you only knew what Hatch has done for this nation.
John | 3:00 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Orrin Hatch has done more for the state of Utah than any of those ranting about
him will do in their lives, collectively. The Democrats in Utah would love
Hatch to get out of politics because they cannot beat him. These are the same
people that would say that Robert C. Byrd should stay in the Senate and he can
hardly stand up these days.
But I guess politics being what they are they have to run their mouths when given the opportunity.
But I guess politics being what they are they have to run their mouths when given the opportunity.
george | 3:04 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Wow - finally something Bush could do good for Utah.... let him have Hatch, a
lame duck President needs lame cronies....
By the way - What has Hatch ever really done for Utah or the nation (oh yes embarrass it)
By the way - What has Hatch ever really done for Utah or the nation (oh yes embarrass it)
Avid Hatch Hater | 3:13 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
When the great all knowing Mr. Hatch made his first campaign speech his platform
was that anyone serving more than two terms was "useless" to the state
he represented and needed to be replaced. Orin has been 'useless' to
Utah right out of the chute.
Orin, be a man and live up to your campaign platform, and get out of the senate. Do all of Utah a favor and retire somewhere in the far far South Pacific. As for the AG issue, it scares to think of the caos he could and would create, well come to think of it, at lest he would bring something new to the news other than liars, robbers, rapist, winers, etc. oops I forgot those are our politicians and elected officials.
Orin, be a man and live up to your campaign platform, and get out of the senate. Do all of Utah a favor and retire somewhere in the far far South Pacific. As for the AG issue, it scares to think of the caos he could and would create, well come to think of it, at lest he would bring something new to the news other than liars, robbers, rapist, winers, etc. oops I forgot those are our politicians and elected officials.
John | 4:29 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
First, to Avid Hatch Hater, his name is "Orrin" and it is
"chaos" that you predict.
This is a man that is responsible for creating the generic drug industry that has benefitted every person in this nation. He accomplished this in 1984 with the passage of the "Hatch/Waxman" amendments to the FFDCA. In 1977 he, along with Sen. Richard Lugar, filibustered the Labor Law Reform bill that would have mandated all industries to unionize. He is the acknowledged leader in intellectual property issues in the Senate. He is a strong proponent of stem cell research. His charity foundation has raised millions of dollars for Utah charities that take care of women and children. He sponsors a critically acclaimed Women's Conference every year. I could keep going but those that don't want to listen will not bother.
If you cannot make a comment that is coherent and actually discusses an issue absent making wild rants, then you show your own lack of knowledge.
This is a man that is responsible for creating the generic drug industry that has benefitted every person in this nation. He accomplished this in 1984 with the passage of the "Hatch/Waxman" amendments to the FFDCA. In 1977 he, along with Sen. Richard Lugar, filibustered the Labor Law Reform bill that would have mandated all industries to unionize. He is the acknowledged leader in intellectual property issues in the Senate. He is a strong proponent of stem cell research. His charity foundation has raised millions of dollars for Utah charities that take care of women and children. He sponsors a critically acclaimed Women's Conference every year. I could keep going but those that don't want to listen will not bother.
If you cannot make a comment that is coherent and actually discusses an issue absent making wild rants, then you show your own lack of knowledge.
Cort | 4:42 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Good points John. Can anyone here actually make a case that Orrin Hatch has
done more bad than good?
Gaylan | 5:41 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
So you would be glad to have Hatch out? Don't forget how he would be
replaced. His replacement would be appointed by Gov. Huntsman, someone less
trustworthy than even Sen. Hatch.(Huntsman would probably appoint himself) An
election is the best place to replace tired old politicians. However, year
after year the Democrats put up candidates so far out of the Utah political
mainstream that there is no real choice.
Ed | 5:47 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
You never can tell. Hatch may, with allot of effort, reach Gonzales's
higher level of values. Hatch will never follow when he stated his stand was
about term limits to get elected.
Norman | 5:52 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Cort... You're not going to hear anything of the kind from these posters.
All you will hear is that Senator Hatch is horrible and corrupt because he is
Republican and he was voted into office by a bunch of brainwashed Mormons who
can't seem to leave their religion out of politics
Anonymous | 6:52 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Norman
What do you mean brainwashed..what do you know about it
What do you mean brainwashed..what do you know about it
fred | 10:09 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Look at all these posts, and almost every other one posted on any story to this
paper's web site. Two sides lobbing accusations at each other. Isn't
it a bit ridiculous to think there are only 2 ways to address a question, any
question, in politics or policy? Sure Orrin has been right on many occasions.
And he has been an embarrassment, even a hypocrit, on enough occasions to make
his performance worth questioning. And yes, I home teach, occasionally teach
high priests group etc etc. Just because I'm LDS doesn't mean I have
to follow after Orrin (or Harry Reid for that matter) like a sheep.
Folks, it's only politics. Don't look for absolute answers here. No law has ever been perfect, never will be. Good people, good ideas exist in both parties. Use your common sense for crying out loud, stop feeling like you have to justify everything your man or your party says/does. They're all flawed. The best we can hope for, the solution we should be urging, is for folks to pool their ideas, find a good one thru compromise, and try it. Then move on. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ABSOLUTE SOLUTIONS THRU A POLITICAL PROCESS SO STOP PRETENDING ONE PARTY OR ANOTHER HAS A LOCK ON HEAVEN-SENT IDEAS.
Again, who is goofy enough to really think that all these issues have only two ways to approach them, Repub and Dem. Of course there are innumerable ways to get at an issue. But over and over we find people, Orrin included, sounding off that the ideas coming thru one stovepipe are always going to be better, more in line with our moral values, than another.
Folks, it's only politics. Don't look for absolute answers here. No law has ever been perfect, never will be. Good people, good ideas exist in both parties. Use your common sense for crying out loud, stop feeling like you have to justify everything your man or your party says/does. They're all flawed. The best we can hope for, the solution we should be urging, is for folks to pool their ideas, find a good one thru compromise, and try it. Then move on. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ABSOLUTE SOLUTIONS THRU A POLITICAL PROCESS SO STOP PRETENDING ONE PARTY OR ANOTHER HAS A LOCK ON HEAVEN-SENT IDEAS.
Again, who is goofy enough to really think that all these issues have only two ways to approach them, Repub and Dem. Of course there are innumerable ways to get at an issue. But over and over we find people, Orrin included, sounding off that the ideas coming thru one stovepipe are always going to be better, more in line with our moral values, than another.
Gretzky | 11:36 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Why does our singing senator Orrin H. always have his name thrown in the hat
every time there is an open federal job? is someone trying to get rid of him?
What committees are OH and BB on in the senate besides the judiciary committee for OH?
So if OH is named the new AG, can Huntsman, Jr name himself to replace OH as our state senator and then we can get a new governator? would Herbert be the new Gov or could we get Olene Walker back (she was an awesome leader focusing on education and what matters). now that's not a bad thought. Then Huntsman can run for president in a few years when Romney or Clinton are running for re-election and then his tenure is over.
Maybe Doug Wright could run for governor along with Shurtleff....
What committees are OH and BB on in the senate besides the judiciary committee for OH?
So if OH is named the new AG, can Huntsman, Jr name himself to replace OH as our state senator and then we can get a new governator? would Herbert be the new Gov or could we get Olene Walker back (she was an awesome leader focusing on education and what matters). now that's not a bad thought. Then Huntsman can run for president in a few years when Romney or Clinton are running for re-election and then his tenure is over.
Maybe Doug Wright could run for governor along with Shurtleff....
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I could never have even imagined a person more contemptuous of the Constitution and basic freedom and liberties as this man. His attack on the Writ of Habeas Corpus is unimagenable. His willingness to allow the Justice Dept to continue to to ignore basic civil procedure, etc.
America is so much better off with this gentleman gone. The worries of Senator Hatch is that while tenacious in pursuing his agenda, he has never had as his agenda the preservation of our Inalienable Rights. Senator Hatch has voted for every anti-Constitutional measure put before the US Senate.
If Senator Hatch becomes the next AG, it will be with the mind that a Mormon will never steer this country wrong. I would guess that over time it would be a black eye for our LDS faith, unless Hatch cleaned it up at the Justice Department, which won't happen.