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Murray offering jobs in Ohio and Illinois to Utah miners
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jj | 11:23 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Murrey is a wind bag. A self made man that thinks he could boss, elected
officials, and mhsa around. What bob murry doesn't understand is. He will
be the easy scape goat, with his quick temper, and windy self. MHSA and this
present adminastration will not take the fall for his little mines in utah
Rex | 11:26 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Good for Mr. Murry, bad for the miners, Nice job big mouth Gov. Politicians
always have to spout off on things they know nothing about. How many men does
the Gov want to kill trying to find the missing. I know nothing about mining
but when I see people killed in the rescue effort in such a dangerous situation
I wonder how many more the Gov wants to die. At least I admit I know nothing.
Get back to spending all of our tax money Mr. Huntsman and leave the coal mining
to the experts.
Alan | 11:41 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
All of Murray's mines should be shut down and Richard Stickler fired from
MSHA.
Comments continue below
Carbon Native | 11:48 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Alan, do you have your job?
I can think of 270 people who do not and it's not necessarily because of safety issues it's because of politics.
I can think of 270 people who do not and it's not necessarily because of safety issues it's because of politics.
John | 11:49 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I say if Hunstman thinks it's safe to rescue the trapped miners that he be
the first to go in. Put up or shut up. If anyone thinks this is situation is
something more than a politician finding a no lose situation to spout rhetoric
and win votes needs to look more closely at Huntsman's past with regard to
mining and MSHA.
Todd | 12:06 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Did any of you actually read the stories about Governor Huntsman? He was
willing to stand up and tell Mr. Murray that calling the families
"irrational" while they are still suffering through this tragedy was
"unconscionable". I would hardly call that political rhetoric. The
fact that Mr. Murray actually made good on his threat is only more proof that
Governor Huntsman's criticism was valid and proof that Mr. Murray does not
care about his miners despite his impassioned speeches to the contrary.
Henry Drummon | 12:09 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
**sigh**
Bob Murray has come a long way in life. He comes from a poor mining family and yet rose through the ranks to become a self-made millionaire. I'm sure he has learned many things along the way including the value of making generous campaign donations.
It is a shame that the most important things in life he has yet to learn. Compassion, honesty, integrity, and wisdom have all eluded him. Most importantly he has failed to learn that respect isn't obtained by bullying others nor can it be bought.
Getting in a shouting match with the families of those who have lost loved ones on his watch is unconscionable. Laying off 300 miners in an attempt to punish the Governor who came to the defense of those grieving families was cruel.
Bob Murray wants everyone from the Governor on down to show him deep respect and call him "Mr. Murray". I think he needs to get used to the idea that he is going to be known by another title from now on - the one he has actually earned - that of "Petty Tyrant".
Bob Murray has come a long way in life. He comes from a poor mining family and yet rose through the ranks to become a self-made millionaire. I'm sure he has learned many things along the way including the value of making generous campaign donations.
It is a shame that the most important things in life he has yet to learn. Compassion, honesty, integrity, and wisdom have all eluded him. Most importantly he has failed to learn that respect isn't obtained by bullying others nor can it be bought.
Getting in a shouting match with the families of those who have lost loved ones on his watch is unconscionable. Laying off 300 miners in an attempt to punish the Governor who came to the defense of those grieving families was cruel.
Bob Murray wants everyone from the Governor on down to show him deep respect and call him "Mr. Murray". I think he needs to get used to the idea that he is going to be known by another title from now on - the one he has actually earned - that of "Petty Tyrant".
Rob | 12:12 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Do you think Huntsman Chemical puts no workers at risk and that the Huntsman
family "didn't crack a few eggs" to make their omelet?
SuttonHoo | 12:42 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
This is a very sad situation. The Governor should have known better than to
begin criticizing the mine owner while the bodies of the miners are still in the
ground. He is showing his immaturity. This is not the time for his criticism of
Mr. Murray. As for Mr. Murray, he is either doing what must be done to save his
company or doing what he hopes will get back at the Governor. He seems a
difficult man to understand. But either way, the miners are caught in the
middle. Huntsman ought to meet with Mr. Murray, call a truce, and do whatever he
can to keep the miners employed in Utah.
Anonymous | 12:47 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Gov, Huntsman should be investigated for opening Utah's gates to all the
Illegal Criminals. There has and will be more deaths at their hands, than in
all the mines in Utah.... If Mr. Murry wants to shut down all of his mines, that
is his business.... Bureaucrats have no place in private business.... Politics
as usual. And for the rest of you, it is so easy to be a Armchair
Quarterback.....
Emery Spartan | 12:54 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Two large egos and we are the on left to suffers the consequences. You have now
turned your back on the whole community Mr. Murray. Shame on you.
His "experts" are giving him an out by saying his mines aren't safe, and he's trying to turn it back on the Huntsman. The truth is the conditions in Crandell Canyon are no different than any mine in Utah. So I guess for safety we just shut down the whole industry, and put everyone out of a job. Now the national media has left, after criticizing everything about the way we earn a living here. Now that we have lost our jobs where are they now? Haven't we suffered enough? Now it is we who are left to suffer the fallout because of political agendas and off target media headlines.
This community is strong and we WILL survive, now the only question is when will the outside influences let us get to it and take care of OUR business.
His "experts" are giving him an out by saying his mines aren't safe, and he's trying to turn it back on the Huntsman. The truth is the conditions in Crandell Canyon are no different than any mine in Utah. So I guess for safety we just shut down the whole industry, and put everyone out of a job. Now the national media has left, after criticizing everything about the way we earn a living here. Now that we have lost our jobs where are they now? Haven't we suffered enough? Now it is we who are left to suffer the fallout because of political agendas and off target media headlines.
This community is strong and we WILL survive, now the only question is when will the outside influences let us get to it and take care of OUR business.
Emery Spartan | 1:15 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Now that I have ranted, I want to clarify one thing. I believe the majority of
the local media has done a wonderful job of covering what is important. Thank
you Deseret News, SL Trib, Ktvx, and Kstu. You have shown compassion, and
understanding where others it seems can't even get the facts straight. You
have kept the focus where is needs to be, and that is on those that are trapped
and have gave their lives. There is a time and place for everything, and this is
not the place nor the time for a soapbox.
Doug Barber | 2:11 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I've not been one to stick up for Mr. Murray, but it seems possible to me
that he is closing this one mine because he now has questions about the safety
of the methods of extreme deep soft coal mining his company was employing, that
he didn't have before.
I know that he went on his Huntsman 700 job tirade the other day, but I'm not convinced - yet - that this is his fulfillment of that promise of revenge. It may be an honest reassessment of a situation which we are all learning more about daily.
I know that he went on his Huntsman 700 job tirade the other day, but I'm not convinced - yet - that this is his fulfillment of that promise of revenge. It may be an honest reassessment of a situation which we are all learning more about daily.
Cabon County Miner. | 2:30 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
1. There is no question everything has been done to get the miners out.
2. Boring a 30" hole 2000 feet long then putting a capsule in it lowering it down with a live person in that mine with the mountain still settling is a suicide mission.
3. There are hundreds of miners buried still entombed in mines all across the U.S.
4. This is a horrible tragedy and my heart and prayers undoubtedly go out to all involved in this. INCLUDING MR.MURRY. he may be a rambling old man, but I respect that man. He has sweated and earned every penny he has and now he has had a terrible tragedy. I saw Mr. Murry everyday at the rescue site in the mine and feel he has done everything he can.
5. Yes I believe Mr Murry may have been gruff with the family, but he has been attacked by people who have ABSOULUTELY NO IDEA ABOUT MINING!
6. SO all of you who think you know about mining and the pain and heartache of those of us who are now out of a job because of people who have no Idea what is going on. That section of mine is off limits and should be sealed. A proper ceremony for the families should be prepared, and a memorial should be errected and mining should continue.
2. Boring a 30" hole 2000 feet long then putting a capsule in it lowering it down with a live person in that mine with the mountain still settling is a suicide mission.
3. There are hundreds of miners buried still entombed in mines all across the U.S.
4. This is a horrible tragedy and my heart and prayers undoubtedly go out to all involved in this. INCLUDING MR.MURRY. he may be a rambling old man, but I respect that man. He has sweated and earned every penny he has and now he has had a terrible tragedy. I saw Mr. Murry everyday at the rescue site in the mine and feel he has done everything he can.
5. Yes I believe Mr Murry may have been gruff with the family, but he has been attacked by people who have ABSOULUTELY NO IDEA ABOUT MINING!
6. SO all of you who think you know about mining and the pain and heartache of those of us who are now out of a job because of people who have no Idea what is going on. That section of mine is off limits and should be sealed. A proper ceremony for the families should be prepared, and a memorial should be errected and mining should continue.
Gene Snow | 2:40 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Mining has always been a dangerious venture, there is not a underground mine
out there that has not suffered some kinds of injuries, no matter what safty
precauions that have been taken! Let MSHA decide if the Crandle Canyon Mine has
been taken the nessassary step to be safe, and if it should reopened.
Gov Huntsman has heard the outcry of the people and is only trying to calm things down. The truth of the matter is, if anyone of us were in that mine we would hope that the community would rally to have the mine continue to dig for us if there was any chance of rescue. I hope the famillys of the miners in time, will find peace and know that most of this nation prayed for them!
Gov Huntsman has heard the outcry of the people and is only trying to calm things down. The truth of the matter is, if anyone of us were in that mine we would hope that the community would rally to have the mine continue to dig for us if there was any chance of rescue. I hope the famillys of the miners in time, will find peace and know that most of this nation prayed for them!
Doug Barber | 3:00 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
"Carbon County Miner", when you say "those of us who are now out
of a job because of people who have no Idea what is going on", are you
saying that Robert Murray laid you off in order to get revenge on Utah's
governor, or are you just blowing smoke?
Anonymous | 3:04 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I agree with the Carbon County Miner. I too feel bad for Mr. Murray, as this is
not his fault. And I thing Gov. Huntsman needs to back off and let the system
work. Investigations are already set in place, there is no need for him to
waste state money to order additional investigation just to act like a
hero..IMHO
Julene Evans | 3:08 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
There is a grieving process in a tragedy, part of that is anger, which family,
friends, city, county and state have felt. When we have anger, we need to have
a bad guy, Mr Murry was there at the right time and the right place. I do not
always like the way he deals with things, but I do know that he is speaking from
his core, that he is not saying anything he doesn't believe. Takes one to
know one, bad part of that, is sometimes people are offended by the truthfulness
and the directness. When Mr. Murray spoke words of hope, those were real to
him, until the mine proved otherwise. I am sure that he frustrated the
families, due to his being very upfront, and when hope was lost, he was being
honest. I believe we have all hoped the miners would be found and each of us at
different points had to accept that was not going to happen. We know that Mr.
Murray wasn't running this from an arm chair, he was in there first thing
when the 2nd tragedy happened. I believe that anger needs to be taken out of
this, it needs to start with top government officials, owners of the company,
the community and the family. Anger will not find the miners, it will not stop
the mountain from it's constant "bumping", it will not heal the
anguished heart. There are so many hearts that need to heal, and my hope is
that those who have lost loved ones, will be able to find peace and comfort
during this time. I hope that those who are in the professional arena, be it
government, owners, mining organizations or "helpful" attorneys, will
let go of what they feel, and think of the families.
Healer | 3:27 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Back in the day, textile mills employed child labor, and many children died -
some quickly with limbs caught in spindles, and others more slowly from brown
lung. I have no doubt that clergy and other pious folk showed up at their
funerals and urged "prayer" and "healing".
What finally put a stop to child labor in New England textile mills was political action, and unions. Prayer played a role - by inciting political action in behalf of human interests, not by rolling over and pretending that mill owners were really just great people who happened to put seven year olds in dangerous positions.
What finally put a stop to child labor in New England textile mills was political action, and unions. Prayer played a role - by inciting political action in behalf of human interests, not by rolling over and pretending that mill owners were really just great people who happened to put seven year olds in dangerous positions.
qballinsaltlake | 3:48 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
my heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones at crandell canyon.i know
from loseing people very close to me in industrial accidents how senseless it
seems.i can only say to the miners families think of the danger to those you are
asking to risk their lives to rescue your loved ones.is there realy enough air
for anyone to still live,will there be more bumps that might kill more
rescuers.be honest do you want more bodies,i think not.as sad as it is perhaps
it is time to accept that nothing else can be done.please dont pressure more
people to face those dangers if there is nothing to be gained.
Caol miner's widow | 4:23 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
All of Utah's coal miners should be concerned for their future as the
politicians and national media will use the Crandall Canyon Mine tragedy to
futher their "green" agendas. Democratic Majority Leader Senator Harry
Reid of Nevada is opposed to building any new coal-fired power plants anywhere
in the nation and is supported by wealthy, special-interest groups who are heavy
investors into switching to so-called renewable energy supplies. They are also
big money donors to his campaign. Utah has an abundance of coal and ordinary
people in this nation need coal-fired power plants to keep our lights on, and we
need all of you hard-working miners to do it for us.I wonder what UMWA has to
say about Harry Reid's quest to put all of you out of work. Mine safety can
always be improved and has over the years. Those efforts must continue. In these
PC days of abundance, too many Americans have forgotten their roots and the
source of their food and energy. My deepest sympathy to all of you and
especially to those who lostloved ones in the mine disaster. However, you
can't change what happened and you must find a way to keep your loved ones
alive in your hearts and slowly move forward with your lives.
Coal miner's widow | 4:56 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
All of Utah's coal miners should be aware that politicians and the national
media will use the Crandall Canyon Coal Mine tragedy to exploit their
"green" agendas and destroy your jobs. Senator Harry Reid of Nevada,
and Senate Democratic Majority leader, has opposed building any more coal-fired
power plants anywhere in the country. Utah has an abundance of coal and the
nation needs the coal and its miners who produce it to keep our lights on.
Senator Reid is backed many wealthy, special-interest groups who are investing
heavily in various sources of so-called renewable energy supplies. To do it they
are spreading all kinds of misinformation about coal-fired power plants. In
addition, Sen. Reid's campaign benefits heavily from those donors, and he
certainly doesn't care what happens to Utah miners or their jobs. I wonder
what UMWA has to say about Sen. Reid's agenda. Mining is hazardous work and
every effort needs to be made to improve safety, but that doesn't mean
shutting down a valuable industry. Because miners work under unstable mountains
there will always be danger, but mine safety has improved over the years as any
historian will attest. in these PC days of abundance, too many Americans have
forgotten their roots and where their food and energy really comes from. We owe
our hard-working coal miners our deepest appreciation for what they do for all
of us. My deepest sympathy to all of you and esecially to those who lost loves
ones. A tragedy happened, and you can't change it. Keep your loved ones
alive in your hearts and move forward one day at a time. It isn't easy, but
you can do it. I know.
Bob Sackamano | 5:10 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Anyone who takes their emotions out of this and puts personalities aside, will
see that Murray is doing what he needs to do, and his actions are appropriate.
He simply wants to make sure his mining operations are safe. It would be
understandable if he simply laid off the workers. Instead, he's giving them
an option that keeps the paycheck coming in. Clearly, he's being fair. But
too many people keep looking at his personality and ignoring that he is making
good decisions.
Aaron | 5:13 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Rex, I don't know what could possibly make you defend Murray at this point
in the game. You can have him. Murray is burying himself with every word that
escapes his lips, and the minute he started making veiled threats about
people's jobs, he lost any hope of retracing his steps. I hope this guy
gets what's coming to him. The governor has been well within his rights on
every point.
IP address unknown | 5:31 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I'd happily pay Deseret News $10/month to see the IP addresses of folks who
are making these comments.
RB | 5:46 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
My opinion still is that I believe Mr. Murray did everything he thought he
possibly could do to get those miners out. I'm sick of all the finger
pointing at him. Those who persist in pointing fingers at him, may I ask what
else you could have possibly done to make the rescue effort go any different?
Mr. Huntsman has ruined Mr. Murray's reputation here making it sound like
he doesn't care about anything or anybody. Nobody's perfect,
that's for sure, but for crying out loud, the poor man did all he could. I
wish people could see what he has tried to do instead of distorting things so
much. The mine is unsafe to work in!!! What other better answers are there for
the miners working for him than to offer them jobs elsewhere?
MIner's Mom | 5:54 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I just have to wonder: If Bobbo (and I will NOT refer to him as "Mr.
Murray"!!) is so worried now about shutting down his other mines
"until I can make it safe", why wasn't he concerned about their
safety before he was threatened with investigations/inspections of these other
mines? He knows he's in trouble deeper than any of his mines!
A truer picture:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6722893
A truer picture:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6722893
Interloper | 6:52 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
"ISP address unknown' is right. I'm sure that many of the
comments praising Robert Murray are from the same person or persons posting over
and over again -- astroturfing to create an impression of Murray having much
more support than he does. A poster like Coal Miner's Wife, or sometimes,
Widow, seems to be an agent of Murray's. She appears on just about every
thread at both large Utah papers attacking environmental and safety regulations
and praising Murray. Of course, there are people who will always kiss the
behinds of the rich and powerful on their own. But, the 'praise
Murray' campaign looks mainly orchestrated.
The people who think that either miners or Murray will be the ultimate decisionmaker in this are just not very bright. The Congressional committees are going to force change regardless of Murray's histrionics. The changes will likely include refusals to allow even more tricky mining in Utah mines even deeper than Crandall Canyon, as Murray plans. This situation may be the death knell for retreat mining. Meanwhile, MSHA will need to clean up its image by showing some backbone for a change, again to Murray's detriment. Stickler should just go on and resign.
The national media will be focusing on the Crandall Canyon tragedy in Washington, D.C., next week because that is where the key angle of the story is now. The outcomes of the rescue, retreat mining and mining reforms will be decided there, not in Utah. (Something else some folks are too dim to grasp.) Stay tuned.
The people who think that either miners or Murray will be the ultimate decisionmaker in this are just not very bright. The Congressional committees are going to force change regardless of Murray's histrionics. The changes will likely include refusals to allow even more tricky mining in Utah mines even deeper than Crandall Canyon, as Murray plans. This situation may be the death knell for retreat mining. Meanwhile, MSHA will need to clean up its image by showing some backbone for a change, again to Murray's detriment. Stickler should just go on and resign.
The national media will be focusing on the Crandall Canyon tragedy in Washington, D.C., next week because that is where the key angle of the story is now. The outcomes of the rescue, retreat mining and mining reforms will be decided there, not in Utah. (Something else some folks are too dim to grasp.) Stay tuned.
A Little Perspective | 7:32 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
My father, father in-law, brothers-inlaws and myself have worked in mines or are
currently working in mines in UTAH and Colorado so I feel that I have an
"IDEA ABOUT MINING" in order to comment. Underground mining is a
dangerous occupation. Improvements have been made, but mining companies have not
improved safety or technology (to protect miners) like other industries have in
recent years. For example, we know have personal communication devices, beacons
and monitoring equipment on many workers. Technology needs to be investigated,
implemented and made part of doing business.
As for Murray, if mines are not operating safe - they should be closed - period! Murray should aknowledge his companies disregard for safety and refrain from verbal disputes with the Gov.
It is amazing to me that so many people that are supposed to be coal-miners would post on here (and Murray would comment) that thanks to the govenors comments and investigation mines will be closed. Why any miner would want to work in an unsafe mine is beyond me? The safety risk doesn't need to be "just part of mining". We need technology and companies committment; if that means that unsafe mines will be closed, so be it!
As for Murray, if mines are not operating safe - they should be closed - period! Murray should aknowledge his companies disregard for safety and refrain from verbal disputes with the Gov.
It is amazing to me that so many people that are supposed to be coal-miners would post on here (and Murray would comment) that thanks to the govenors comments and investigation mines will be closed. Why any miner would want to work in an unsafe mine is beyond me? The safety risk doesn't need to be "just part of mining". We need technology and companies committment; if that means that unsafe mines will be closed, so be it!
Rationalle thogts by Jonbob Yuta | 7:39 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Everyone is just trying to cover their own tails. I think Mr. Murry tried to do
his very best, even if his miners temper came off as reckless and crass. I
think Huntsman has tried to keep the state looking good by shifting the blame to
the mine owners and feds. And, I think Huntsman's musician daughter is
very pretty, but I don't know if Mr. Murry has an older single daughter
close to my age, so I can't yet decide whose side I'll be taking.
I Met Huntsmans Daughter | 8:29 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Yes, the one studying in NYC is very pretty, as they all are. I don't think
that Mr. Murray's daughters could possibly compare. Just my opinion.
Doesn't mean I'll take Huntsman's side, just means that I think
his daughters are hot.
Jack | 9:14 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Utah has a surplus. Make a statement. Pass a retraining act that covers any
miner who Murray fires. Make up the difference in unemployment payment if they
retrain. They lost their jobs due to safely issues. This is a opportunity to
make some good come of this.
JR | 9:15 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Excuse me, wasn't one of the rescuers also the mine inspector who had
inspected the mine within a couple of weeks of the collapse? Also, hasn't
good ol' George in Washington allowed changes in regulations to accommodate
the money machines? God Bless the families in their loss but now is the time to
move forward - the blame game does not bring anyone back or any peace of mind.
Disgusted | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Huntsman's a hypocrite. Put in some of your own bucks, Gov, before you
jump down everyone else's throat. I've met Huntsman Jr. - and
he's not a thing like his father. Silver spoon telling everyone else what
to do in an area he has no experience.
Dear I Met Huntsmans Daughter | 10:35 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
What does your comment have to do with this story? Just the fact that you would
comment on one of Gov. Huntsman's daughters would make me question your
motives!
To Disgusted | 10:48 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Governor Hunstman is very much like his father! He is not telling everyone else
what to do. He is acting very compassionately and appropriately in this
situation. In case you have forgotten--he is The Governor of this state and he
is acting in good faith.
To A Little Perspective: | 10:54 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
FINALLY! Please keep posting--you are being heard! What a reality check. Who
would want (themselves) or their loved ones, to keep working in a mine that is
unsafe? Huge "A-HA" moment!
Run Bob Run | 11:02 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
So do the words "Run Bob Run", shifty, flighty, fearful, seem to fit
the description of Bob?
coal miners wife | 12:59 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
My husband and I live in Carbon County. We see things first hand. We think Mr.
Murray is a good man. He's offering these men jobs so they don't loose
a paycheck. Does that sound like someone that don't care for their
employees? My husband has been a miner for many years. We've been through
layoffs. They don't offer you another job. They don't care whether you
have a paycheck. Mr. Murray cares for his people. I'm tired of people
bashing him when they don't have any idea of what they are talking about.
Around Mining My Whole Life | 12:36 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
John & Carbon County Miner, Amen!
Todd, The families were/are being 'irrational'---b/c of grief. Saying such isn't 'mean'/'disrespectful' nor an 'unconscionable' statement---just a valid observation. Many ppl in situations like this [underground-mine accident, hurricane, tsunami etc] DO become irrational due to grief/frustration---it's just the way it is. There's complaining if things are 'sugar-coated' or if there's 'plain-talking'---a no-win situation for Murray---I'll take the 'plain-talking' any day.
Behavior/statements by anti-Murray and anti-coal zealots put Murray in several no-win situations including---if he keeps all of the mines running---he 'doesn't care about safety'---if he shuts them down for a complete inspection/plan review then he 'doesn't care about his miners'/he's being 'cruel'---what a load of bull. Some people will NEVER be satisfied until they've gotten as much personally as possible out of this AND THEN PROBABLY STILL WON'T BE.
Murray would be well w/in his rights to shut-down ALL HIS UT MINES PERMANENTLY---W/O TRANSFERRING anybody---I wouldn't do that b/c that would be letting anti-coal/global-warming Chicken-Littles etc win [among other reasons]---BUT I could understand if Murray did that.
Emry Spartman, Here we go again with mis-information, Murray's experts haven't YET declared his other mines 'unsafe'---that's the WHOLE purpose of the idling---to determine IF they're safe [given new info] or not. AND so much for what you 'know'...EVERY mine is unique...they're NOT carbon copies (pun unintended)---I'd hope that even if I hadn't been around mining my whole life that I'd at least know THAT MUCH.
Henry Drummond etc, I say 'sigh' to YOUR rants.
BTW, I've NEVER met Murray---I'm NOT a 'lackey' for him---AND I KISS NOBODY'S BUTT---EVER!!! And that includes ppl that are ANTI-MURRAY/ANTI-COAL, HUNTSMAN, THE FAMILIES, UMWA, GOVT PPL, POSTERS HERE ETC!!! And b/c I don't kiss butt, then I know how Murray feels in that regard b/c he doesn't either.
Todd, The families were/are being 'irrational'---b/c of grief. Saying such isn't 'mean'/'disrespectful' nor an 'unconscionable' statement---just a valid observation. Many ppl in situations like this [underground-mine accident, hurricane, tsunami etc] DO become irrational due to grief/frustration---it's just the way it is. There's complaining if things are 'sugar-coated' or if there's 'plain-talking'---a no-win situation for Murray---I'll take the 'plain-talking' any day.
Behavior/statements by anti-Murray and anti-coal zealots put Murray in several no-win situations including---if he keeps all of the mines running---he 'doesn't care about safety'---if he shuts them down for a complete inspection/plan review then he 'doesn't care about his miners'/he's being 'cruel'---what a load of bull. Some people will NEVER be satisfied until they've gotten as much personally as possible out of this AND THEN PROBABLY STILL WON'T BE.
Murray would be well w/in his rights to shut-down ALL HIS UT MINES PERMANENTLY---W/O TRANSFERRING anybody---I wouldn't do that b/c that would be letting anti-coal/global-warming Chicken-Littles etc win [among other reasons]---BUT I could understand if Murray did that.
Emry Spartman, Here we go again with mis-information, Murray's experts haven't YET declared his other mines 'unsafe'---that's the WHOLE purpose of the idling---to determine IF they're safe [given new info] or not. AND so much for what you 'know'...EVERY mine is unique...they're NOT carbon copies (pun unintended)---I'd hope that even if I hadn't been around mining my whole life that I'd at least know THAT MUCH.
Henry Drummond etc, I say 'sigh' to YOUR rants.
BTW, I've NEVER met Murray---I'm NOT a 'lackey' for him---AND I KISS NOBODY'S BUTT---EVER!!! And that includes ppl that are ANTI-MURRAY/ANTI-COAL, HUNTSMAN, THE FAMILIES, UMWA, GOVT PPL, POSTERS HERE ETC!!! And b/c I don't kiss butt, then I know how Murray feels in that regard b/c he doesn't either.
gus | 1:28 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
amen to that last comment. home-run.
Interloper | 6:24 p.m. Aug. 28, 2007
Wow! There's still someone cluesless enough to think Bumbling Bob Murray
will be the person deciding whether to keep his mines open. As I said above,
the government, as in Congress and MSHA, will decide whether Murray's
methods are inherently dangerous. If they decide the methods are, all of his
deep mines will be closed.
Fools who want to work in unsafe conditions must be protected from themselves.
Fools who want to work in unsafe conditions must be protected from themselves.
just an observer | 1:23 a.m. Aug. 29, 2007
Interloper
do you like to type on and use your computer???
(apparently you do because you are making
comments on this thread)
do you like to have a refrigerator??
do you like to push a switch so you can have lights?
etc. etc. etc. etc.........
do you like to type on and use your computer???
(apparently you do because you are making
comments on this thread)
do you like to have a refrigerator??
do you like to push a switch so you can have lights?
etc. etc. etc. etc.........
Interloper | 3:10 a.m. Aug. 29, 2007
I like all of the above, but that does not require that I like Bob Murray or his
unsafe mining methods. Murray is engaged in re-mining, i.e., taking the
remaining coal from mines that other mining companies have stopped mining
because it can't be done safely and economically. I see no problem with
accepting that those mines are used up.
Mining jobs are not sacrosanct. When making a living from mining is no longer an option, people will just have to develop skills to work in other fields. That is what has occurred with loggers in the Pacific Northwest as high tech and service industries replaced logging.
We will have to gradually eliminate dependence on coal as fuel because we are running out of it and it has an awful effect on the environment. The emphasis should be put on developing new sources of energy, not acting as if it is 1907 instead of 2007.
Mining jobs are not sacrosanct. When making a living from mining is no longer an option, people will just have to develop skills to work in other fields. That is what has occurred with loggers in the Pacific Northwest as high tech and service industries replaced logging.
We will have to gradually eliminate dependence on coal as fuel because we are running out of it and it has an awful effect on the environment. The emphasis should be put on developing new sources of energy, not acting as if it is 1907 instead of 2007.
Coal Family | 10:00 a.m. Aug. 29, 2007
Running out of coal?! ROTFL!!! That silly misconception again.
We need to be doing more coal mining not less (overall that is...maybe not in UT though).
Coal liquefaction/gasification should help us w/ our dependency on oil but so far it's knuckle-headed the-world-is-dieing environmental extremest wack-jobs that are slowing that tech up.
Murray can be the decider of if all his UT mines resume work. The govt can shut them down but so can he. But the recovery op at this mine is currently in the hands of the govt.
Btw, this fall a new coal-fired power-plant will begin construction in IL.
And another last thing, my parents and God decided that I didn't need a Big Brother & I certainly don't need one now to "protect me from myself".
If the coal coal-industry is ever killed off along w/ the power-plants it supplies & electric bills skyrocket I don't want to hear one frickin' word out of certain people. Just like the anti-smoking zelots...as tobacco is over-regulated more & more & fewer people use it...where do you think the govt is going to get the tobacco tax $ replacement from...yep sales, property etc taxes will skyrocket & guess who will be the 1st to pitch-a-fit. So when electric costs soar & or a nuke accident happens b/c a coal-fired plant was replaced by a nuke plant guess who will be to blame...
My family has been in coal for over a 100 years & I hope it continues to be despite the efforts of some.
We need to be doing more coal mining not less (overall that is...maybe not in UT though).
Coal liquefaction/gasification should help us w/ our dependency on oil but so far it's knuckle-headed the-world-is-dieing environmental extremest wack-jobs that are slowing that tech up.
Murray can be the decider of if all his UT mines resume work. The govt can shut them down but so can he. But the recovery op at this mine is currently in the hands of the govt.
Btw, this fall a new coal-fired power-plant will begin construction in IL.
And another last thing, my parents and God decided that I didn't need a Big Brother & I certainly don't need one now to "protect me from myself".
If the coal coal-industry is ever killed off along w/ the power-plants it supplies & electric bills skyrocket I don't want to hear one frickin' word out of certain people. Just like the anti-smoking zelots...as tobacco is over-regulated more & more & fewer people use it...where do you think the govt is going to get the tobacco tax $ replacement from...yep sales, property etc taxes will skyrocket & guess who will be the 1st to pitch-a-fit. So when electric costs soar & or a nuke accident happens b/c a coal-fired plant was replaced by a nuke plant guess who will be to blame...
My family has been in coal for over a 100 years & I hope it continues to be despite the efforts of some.
Interloper | 3:27 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007
Coal mining in the U.S. will wind down within the next 25-30 years, sooner in
places with reserves that can't be safely mined like Utah.
Americans' health will be the better for not suffering the effects of environmental contamination and the ozone layer will suffer less depletion. Of course, people like Coal Family will still suffer the consequences of smoking.
Americans' health will be the better for not suffering the effects of environmental contamination and the ozone layer will suffer less depletion. Of course, people like Coal Family will still suffer the consequences of smoking.
Anonymous | 8:01 a.m. Aug. 30, 2007
Interloper, You didn't get it did you? I didn't say we were smokers. I
was drawing a parallel...making a comparison. I'll try it again...maybe if
I type slower....
My point is..."be careful what you wish for because you just might get it".
Right now some states are already feeling the financial effects of lower tobacco sales in their states (either b/c more residents have stopped smoking or are buying their tobacco out-of-state) and are now trying to figure out where to make up the lost tax revenue...which is going to result in higher state sales and income taxes and other taxes.
Parallel: Stop using coal for electricity and see electric rates skyrocket.
Now if the "trade-off" is better or not that's up to the individual...all I'm saying is I don't want to hear one single complaint from the militant anti-tobacco nor the militant environmental anti-coal folks when it's their pocket book that is hit. And this post and the one I did earlier on this doesn't take into account the lost jobs in either industry nor the lost jobs in industries/companies that are affiliated w/ tobacco and coal (for examp., the stores that will raise prices because of higher electric costs or lost revenue from tobacco, the co's that selling supplies/materials to the tobacco and coal co's and etc, etc, etc...).
My entire point...
"BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR BECAUSE YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT AND WHEN YOU DO DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!"
My point is..."be careful what you wish for because you just might get it".
Right now some states are already feeling the financial effects of lower tobacco sales in their states (either b/c more residents have stopped smoking or are buying their tobacco out-of-state) and are now trying to figure out where to make up the lost tax revenue...which is going to result in higher state sales and income taxes and other taxes.
Parallel: Stop using coal for electricity and see electric rates skyrocket.
Now if the "trade-off" is better or not that's up to the individual...all I'm saying is I don't want to hear one single complaint from the militant anti-tobacco nor the militant environmental anti-coal folks when it's their pocket book that is hit. And this post and the one I did earlier on this doesn't take into account the lost jobs in either industry nor the lost jobs in industries/companies that are affiliated w/ tobacco and coal (for examp., the stores that will raise prices because of higher electric costs or lost revenue from tobacco, the co's that selling supplies/materials to the tobacco and coal co's and etc, etc, etc...).
My entire point...
"BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR BECAUSE YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT AND WHEN YOU DO DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!"
5th Generation IL. Coal Miner | 3:00 p.m. Sept. 5, 2007
I am a pioneer female underground coal miner in the state of IL and the 5th
generation. All four of my great grandfathers Illinois coal miners and had
their dealing in organizing the UMWA. We all know hte horror stories of the
last time this happend and I pray nothing like that ever happens again. My
question is how can out of state miners come take the jobs of our miners who are
laid off from that mine? We underground miners who are accustome to room and
pillar type mining. I've seen the bottom squeeze up like that in the mine
I worked at here in Southern Illiois and there wasnt a mountain above it. It
was an old section of the mine and unsafe to work. I seen this because I was
asked to do a job and I did. What I didn't know at the time was it was not
safe to be there. You can contact me at http://www.myspace.com/coalminersunite
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