Reader comments
Prime for crime?
25 comments | Read story
Jon Huntsman | 1:18 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
What's the percentage of non-whites living in Kaysville, Utah? Probably
pretty low. I think I saw one black person in Kaysville, but he was only passing
through on his way to Layton.
Hunt Jonsman | 2:58 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I think that the people of Kaysville are to blame as well. If they would not
pass through to Layton, none of this article would be necessary to post!
Sam S. Pade | 6:43 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
The story while informative has serious gaps in the "why" information
- if the instructor/researcher (not sure a previous job as a police provides the
proper credentials of a researcher) controls for the factors of drugs use and
illgal immigrants (of all races) perps you would find the crimes rates are in
fact pretty low. You have a city like St. George scoring high because 1. the is
a construction boom and illegal workers have flocked there and 2. it is on a
major interstate highway that provides easy access for drug distrubition on the
way to from Southern borders.
Comments continue below
Richard McFadden | 7:14 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
As the article mentioned briefly, it is all about social conditioning. Those
without hope are more likely to commit crime. Jon Huntsman's statement is
right but on the wrong track. He would understand if he was
"non-white". My ancestors were the original founders of Kaysville.
While Kaysville may have a low crime rate it has a very high rate of cognitive
dissonance. I am not sure which is worse.
cute | 7:30 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
What's worse than being anonymous...using an elected official's name.
Keith Horton | 8:00 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
It seems South Salt Lake and Salt Lake are using the daytime population as an
excuse. It would be nice to see how many crimes are committed at night compared
to daytime. I would feel more save in these cities in the daytime than night.
former Utah resident | 8:35 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I lived 9 years in Utah about 30 years ago. The growth in crime in Utah amazes
me! What has happened to the beautiful, peaceful Utah that I remember?
When I lived in Utah, most citizens appeared to be at least nominally Mormon. It is the fashion to decry the influence of the Mormon church in Utah, but as the number of non-Mormons has grown by leaps and bounds, so, apparently, has the crime rate.
And it seems that the MORE social programs we have, at least here in our state, the worse things become.
Somehow, we must find a solution to this issue. If it is fathers in the home, education, etc. how do we address the fact that many "fathers" don't want to be in the home, that many young women don't object to having children without the support of the children's fathers, and many young people don't want to become educated?
There is a whole culture in America today that decries the idea of working for a living, feels no loyalty it the community, and that seems totally bent on filling immediate physical wants and needs. Since we must be value-neutral in all our education and programs, how do we address that?
When I lived in Utah, most citizens appeared to be at least nominally Mormon. It is the fashion to decry the influence of the Mormon church in Utah, but as the number of non-Mormons has grown by leaps and bounds, so, apparently, has the crime rate.
And it seems that the MORE social programs we have, at least here in our state, the worse things become.
Somehow, we must find a solution to this issue. If it is fathers in the home, education, etc. how do we address the fact that many "fathers" don't want to be in the home, that many young women don't object to having children without the support of the children's fathers, and many young people don't want to become educated?
There is a whole culture in America today that decries the idea of working for a living, feels no loyalty it the community, and that seems totally bent on filling immediate physical wants and needs. Since we must be value-neutral in all our education and programs, how do we address that?
Anonymous | 9:06 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I am a former resident of South Salt Lake. The resident population (those who
live in homes) make the difference as to how well the community is run. Those
of their transient population ie apartment dwellers (and South Salt Lake is full
of them)make the crime stats what they are. Until South Salt Lake starts either
removing their large apartment complexes, or owners of these complexes start
screening their renters, life in the city will never change. Also, The schools
in the area are a joke. Most of those who own homes in the area don't sent
their children to local schools, because of their poor track record. None of
these statistics from crime to gang activity to poor choices in schools make
residents with children have the desire to stay. This is quite unfortunate
because there are so many genuine, wonderful people who continue to live in
South Salt Lake despite the problems. (As a family, we decided to move due to
the problems mentioned above.)
It is unfortunate that city leaders continue to not pass laws that could strenthen their city by putting stricter rules on renters. Until this happens,South Salt Lake will continue to have problems. (This is so unfortunate given the fact that South Salt Lake is so close to everything, and has such affordable housing.)
It is unfortunate that city leaders continue to not pass laws that could strenthen their city by putting stricter rules on renters. Until this happens,South Salt Lake will continue to have problems. (This is so unfortunate given the fact that South Salt Lake is so close to everything, and has such affordable housing.)
Chris | 10:15 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I'm non-Mormon and I agree with 'Former Utah Resident' that the
increase of non-Mormons may increase crime--but lets make one thing clear--its
not about religion. Its about what another commenter said about a person with no
hope being more likely to commit a crime. Hope doesn't have to come from
being Mormon--but I'm guessing it helps. My hope comes from being a father
but also respecting the Mormon religion makes me a better citizen. This should
go both ways. And 9 out of 10 times it does. I'm not sure what you do in
this situation aside from becoming a police state because you can't make
people hope.
Doug Barber | 11:21 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I'd like to know more about this "cognitive dissonance" problem
in Kaysville. It sounds like something that could interfere with instrument
readings on flights out of SLC International.
evensteven | 11:25 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
This article and most of the posts really miss the point. #1 Crime rates were
actually lower during the great depression. So how plausible is the premise
that misery breeds crime? In reality, the causal relationship is weak. Crime
is committed for reasons of one of the 7 dealy sins - greed, envy, covet, pride.
Economics may grease the skids somewhat but the undrlying reasons are always
the same and rarely is it an altruistic need to provide for ones self and/or
family.
Point #2: SSL, like SLC has a large increase in its daily population from workers and customers within its borders. Controlling for this might paint a very different picture of crime there, or anywhere. Using residents as the only criteria necessarily skews the data which leads, as in this case, to erroneous conclusions about what the data says.
Point #2: SSL, like SLC has a large increase in its daily population from workers and customers within its borders. Controlling for this might paint a very different picture of crime there, or anywhere. Using residents as the only criteria necessarily skews the data which leads, as in this case, to erroneous conclusions about what the data says.
Unconcerned Murray Resident | 11:30 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Murray has a very similar problem to South Salt Lake. It's geographically
centered in the Salt Lake Valley, its daytime population balloons, it has 3 Trax
stops, and it has 2 major freeways that intersect (I-15 and I-215) within its
city boundaries. My neighbor who recently retired from the Murray Police said
most property crimes happen at Murray's many retail areas (chief among them
being Fashion Place mall). Its violent crimes also typically happen with people
who live outside their city. Take the recent shooting at one of Murray's
(more than any neighboring city) parks on Aug. 7th. Both by residents of West
Valley City. Conversely, Provo has the exact opposite problem. Most of its
residents work in Salt Lake County (except Novell employees) and the only time
its population balloons is during one of those football games with all of its
"roudy" fans (yah, that was sarcasm). I for one would welcome a
day-time population comparison recommended by the South Salt Lake chief of
police rather than a night population that artificially inflates these rankings
for cities where people go (work purposes for South Salt Lake's industrial
area, and Murray for its shopping and recreation).
StopTheDrugWar | 12:26 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Most law enforcement resources are used to prosecute the War on People Who Use
Certain Drugs.
The drug war diverts those resources from protecting citizens against those who commit crimes against persons and property.
The drug war diverts those resources from protecting citizens against those who commit crimes against persons and property.
Yep, that's the ticket | 12:47 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
We need more unemployed crackheads "shopping" in our mini-markets at 3
AM. Let's see how that turns out.
Chet Barrett | 1:32 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
It appears the reporters used old population data.
Try using the 2006 U.S. Census Bureau population estimates.
The figures will come out much differently.
Try using the 2006 U.S. Census Bureau population estimates.
The figures will come out much differently.
Terry | 1:54 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
I'd like to see a day time/night time comparison too. Who doesn't
think more cars are broken into in SLC or accidents, or who knows what happens a
lot more in the day in the city than the suburbs? There are more people and cars
to rob in the city during the day than at night.
I'd also like to see the reporter put out a larger list so i can see other towns that didn't fall in the top 10 and see where the divide starts.
I'd also like to see the reporter put out a larger list so i can see other towns that didn't fall in the top 10 and see where the divide starts.
Sally Jitterbug | 4:29 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
If I lived in Bountiful and robbed a bank in Tooele, isn't that another
VERY IMPORTANT and relative statistic down the drain?
from a Detroit Mormon | 4:59 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
Being econimically destitute doesn't make you more prone to stealing. Your
personal morals do. Stronger values make a big difference, regardless of race,
gender, educational background or any other reason given.
whatever | 6:11 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
A lot of cyber-ink spilled over relaqtive crime rates in Utah's more
crowded communities and not a word about the thousands of illegal immigrants
causing this problem.
Ignoring the issue won't make it go away and won't make our streets any safer.
Ignoring the issue won't make it go away and won't make our streets any safer.
right, whatever | 9:59 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
and yet, the arrest rates aren't exactly proving your point.
Whatever.
Whatever.
Iceman | 10:08 p.m. Aug. 26, 2007
While your report was of interest, I am curious why your report did not delve
more into the demographics of crime...such as the statistic of illegal
immigrants who are 8% of the population however contribute to 50% of the crime.
Chet Barrett | 3:02 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
For instance, in the article they list the population of St. George as 48,000.
The actual 2006 Census Bureau estimate is a whopping 40.9% higher than that at
67,614.
You can see how the crime rates listed for St. George would be way off!
And of course so would the rates for other fast growing cities.
You can see how the crime rates listed for St. George would be way off!
And of course so would the rates for other fast growing cities.
Concerned | 10:17 a.m. Aug. 27, 2007
And the legislature recently decided to TAKE tax revenue from SSL and distribute
it to other cities based on population. So SSL has less money for law
enforcement and dealing with people from everywhere else besides its small
population, while other cities with less sales tax revenue and lower crime will
have more money to spend on community programs, amphitheaters, etc. Not having a
loud voice (power) in the state government not only hurts SSL, but the thousands
who pass through it.
Yep | 5:10 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
Illegal immigration is the culprit in at least two ways.
First, illegals are committing crimes far in excess of their proportion of the population. Well over half of all violent crime in Utah is committed by illegals. A large chunk of your tax revenue that might go to hire police officers is then used to pay for interpreters and public defenders to protect them from the consequences of their crimes.
Secondly, the illegals are here taking jobs from American youth who might be busy earning money and learning responsibility by cutting grass, picking fruit, and nailing wall board instead of stealing cars and joining gangs.
How many of you here on the board got your first start in responsible work ethic at a construction or landscaping site? I know I did. But my kids can't because the illegals--who aren't paying taxes on their earnings--are taking all those jobs.
Idle hands and all that. What else can teenaged males do if they cant work? Play X-Box all day and be glad that their parents found someone else to trim the shrubs?
Many of these kids find themselves getting into trouble out of sheer boredom and lack of opportunity.
Send the illegals home and your crime problem solves itself in a large degree.
First, illegals are committing crimes far in excess of their proportion of the population. Well over half of all violent crime in Utah is committed by illegals. A large chunk of your tax revenue that might go to hire police officers is then used to pay for interpreters and public defenders to protect them from the consequences of their crimes.
Secondly, the illegals are here taking jobs from American youth who might be busy earning money and learning responsibility by cutting grass, picking fruit, and nailing wall board instead of stealing cars and joining gangs.
How many of you here on the board got your first start in responsible work ethic at a construction or landscaping site? I know I did. But my kids can't because the illegals--who aren't paying taxes on their earnings--are taking all those jobs.
Idle hands and all that. What else can teenaged males do if they cant work? Play X-Box all day and be glad that their parents found someone else to trim the shrubs?
Many of these kids find themselves getting into trouble out of sheer boredom and lack of opportunity.
Send the illegals home and your crime problem solves itself in a large degree.
The chief | 9:42 p.m. Aug. 27, 2007
You missed the point with this story. It's not about crime rate, but about
why crime goes unpunished. It should be about why the district attorney does NOT
prosecute most events. It should be about hard-working deputies and officers
doing all they can, arresting perps, and why the DA fails to file charges.
The real story is why so many repeat offenders are on the streets -- and not in jail. It should be about why the courts release people with long rap sheets. It should be about the jail system that is so easy on offenders that it's not a deterrent.
It should be about the lack of attention to initial crimes -- giving the message that you have to commit a dozen or so felonies before the system will act.
You missed the boat with this story. You're looking at the wrong end of the donkey and getting the wrong picture. This story means nothing to me, the reader. Great statistics -- but no story. As a reporter you fail the reader by not telling me what it means to me and/or pushing for improvements and righting the wrongs.
Another prime example of why journalism is no longer compelling today. Lots of words and numbers -- no depth and no pressure put on anyone to fix anything. Wasted ink and paper.
The real story is why so many repeat offenders are on the streets -- and not in jail. It should be about why the courts release people with long rap sheets. It should be about the jail system that is so easy on offenders that it's not a deterrent.
It should be about the lack of attention to initial crimes -- giving the message that you have to commit a dozen or so felonies before the system will act.
You missed the boat with this story. You're looking at the wrong end of the donkey and getting the wrong picture. This story means nothing to me, the reader. Great statistics -- but no story. As a reporter you fail the reader by not telling me what it means to me and/or pushing for improvements and righting the wrongs.
Another prime example of why journalism is no longer compelling today. Lots of words and numbers -- no depth and no pressure put on anyone to fix anything. Wasted ink and paper.
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