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Utah school districts face teacher shortage
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Lee | 5:22 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
We left Utah last summer and enrolled our kids in school in a neighboring state.
It's amazing to see the transformation. Our daughter, who entered High
school here as a 9th grader totally blossomed in the new school. She was able
to take classes like fashion design, photography and Jewelery last year. This
year she's in an AP history class which will be going to Europe during
spring break.
It does cost more to purchase supplies here. We just shelled out $150 for 5th grade supplies, and another $280 for High School fees, but it's worth it to have a much better education system. The biggest struggle so far has been overcoming the investigations math that Alpine School District taught my son through 3rd grade. He's come a long way in his first year.
Utah needs to figure out how to pay their teachers better, or this problem will continually get worse. The cost of living is pretty high, especially housing. Perhaps the mortgage crisis will collapse house prices to affordable levels...
It does cost more to purchase supplies here. We just shelled out $150 for 5th grade supplies, and another $280 for High School fees, but it's worth it to have a much better education system. The biggest struggle so far has been overcoming the investigations math that Alpine School District taught my son through 3rd grade. He's come a long way in his first year.
Utah needs to figure out how to pay their teachers better, or this problem will continually get worse. The cost of living is pretty high, especially housing. Perhaps the mortgage crisis will collapse house prices to affordable levels...
BellaMia | 6:12 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Only the private sector can adequately solve the complexities of supply and
demand. These systems are so frustratingly stable because forces within the
system resist change.
The free market, supplied with vouchers, like we do with universities, would create clever, cost-effective education systems that would create the most sophisticated students in the world.
Notice how the US, has some of the most efficient and well stocked grocery stores in the world - and people use vouchers in this system every day. Vouchers, as most economists acknowledge, would bring about an educational renaissance.
It's time.
The free market, supplied with vouchers, like we do with universities, would create clever, cost-effective education systems that would create the most sophisticated students in the world.
Notice how the US, has some of the most efficient and well stocked grocery stores in the world - and people use vouchers in this system every day. Vouchers, as most economists acknowledge, would bring about an educational renaissance.
It's time.
Comments continue below
MovingAway | 6:35 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
I recently read that the average house price in the Salt Lake valley was around
$300,000. Where is a young teacher just starting out supposed to live?
Arizona Teacher--Utah native | 7:16 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
I looked at the pay schedule for Granite School District. At the same level, 5
years with a Masters, I make 10K more a year in neighboring Arizona than I would
in Utah. My school district is fully staffed, and doing well. We have supplies
and continuing educational support. Arizona has great weather, I get paid well,
and I can leave in the summer. I'm happy, and certinally not moving back to
Utah.
Not a teacher in Utah | 7:29 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
I was one of those who graduated from a university in Utah and received a Utah
license in 2004 but immediately left. There was no way that I could afford to
stay there and so I went to the east coast. The starting pay for a new teacher
in my district is 43,000 and as I start my 4th year of teaching I am at 52,000.
Utah gave me no reason to stay and I am glad I am out.
Tap Dancer | 7:36 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Utah teachers aren't paid anything close to what they are worth. But just
as bad as the low pay is the rush from everyone (especially politicians) to
"fix" our public schools. The "programs" that they come up
with result in many long hours of meetings, paperwork, & another manual to
put on the shelf until the next fix it program comes out. Let us get back to
teaching the kids!!! These programs seem to be endless, "Centennial
Schools, Comprehinsive Guidance, Comprehensive School Improvement Plan"
etc., etc., etc. The prgram BECOMES the problem. Leave the teachers alone and
let them teach!!! There is only one thing that raises test scores and that is
TIME ON TASK! Doesn't anyone get it? If we want our kids to understand
math, spend time teaching math, not filling out paperwork for another blasted
program to make politicians proud.
Yes, I am a teacher of over 35 years! Yes, I learned to "tap dance" to the new music (the next new program that came along). And sadly, yes, my sister taught for 38 years in a neighboring state and made 20% more that I did, even though I had a higher degree than her. She also taught 20 days/year less than I did, and they had higher test scores. Why? Because their state & district had sense enough to say "NO" to all the new programs to FIX our schools, and they spent their time actually teaching. To the Utah legislature: We know a lot more than you do about teaching and kids. Quit trying to FIX our system. It's not broken! Fund education and we'll do the rest!!!!
Yes, I am a teacher of over 35 years! Yes, I learned to "tap dance" to the new music (the next new program that came along). And sadly, yes, my sister taught for 38 years in a neighboring state and made 20% more that I did, even though I had a higher degree than her. She also taught 20 days/year less than I did, and they had higher test scores. Why? Because their state & district had sense enough to say "NO" to all the new programs to FIX our schools, and they spent their time actually teaching. To the Utah legislature: We know a lot more than you do about teaching and kids. Quit trying to FIX our system. It's not broken! Fund education and we'll do the rest!!!!
Anonymous | 7:38 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
What do you expect from Utah? Utah could care less about building up their
universities as we saw last week (U.S. News report). They also don't care
about paying their teachers well. But they are very good at lowering taxes and
promoting small business growth! That's all that matters right? Our kids
can get their education from other sources that are not part of the mainstream
'liberal' education anyway.
anonymous | 7:42 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
One word: LOTTERY!!
gcran8333 | 8:09 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Teachers that put in just 1 hour extra per day, whether they are at work or home
doing school work, donate 4 and 1/2 weeks of free work for the district, besides
all their own money that they spend. How many other professions are willing to
do that for free? I know in our district, many teachers are there much longer
than 1 hour past contract time. Especially coaches etc..... Don't even
get started on the pathetic coaching pay. It's about 25 cents an hour. No
joke.
QOTU | 9:05 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
I agree with the comment made about the working conditions of teachers. I
don't think it's as much about Utah teacher salaries as much as the
horrendous working conditions. Low funding, lack of respect, etc., make it a lot
harder to put up with the comparatively low salary. No Child Left Behind has
also added unnecessary misery. Here's a thought, too: A babysitter making
$5 per hour per child would make about $125 per hour in the average Utah
classroom. And that is without a degree, without making lesson plans, grading
papers, monitoring student progress, etc.
I Teach | 9:26 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Isn't everything greener on the other side of the hill? I spoke to a
teacher from a neighboring state that had to fork over close to $500 a month in
insurance premiums. Teachers in ASD don't pay a dime for insurance. Maybe
the pay is less but insurance could persuade a teacher to stay around here.
Robert Oliver | 10:08 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
Lynn - Teachers ARE getting out and not enough people are graduating in
education to replace those leaving and to fill the new positions needed due to
growth! That's why there is a teacher SHORTAGE which is what the article
was about in the first place. The comments above explain exactly why they are
getting out, why there aren't enough entering the system, and what some
possible solutions would be to attract more teachers. Currently in Utah,
teaching is simply not an attractive career except possibly as a second income.
The whole point is, does Utah want to make it an attractive career? If they do,
some solutions are presented by responding to those things expressed above. If
not, fine, but Utah schools will continue to have teacher shortages, large
classroom sizes, and a very high turnover rate.
Appreciative Parent | 11:02 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007
To all the Utah teachers who have posted here, THANK YOU!! I am married to an
elementary teacher, and I am on the community council at our HS, so I know the
demands on your time and energy are great, the criticism (usually from people
who don't have first-hand knowledge of the situation, as is obvious from
some of these posts...) is frequent, and the praise is rare. Hopefully Gov Jon
will find a way to give you guys another bump this year like he did last year.
My hat's off to all of you!!
AJY | 12:00 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007
All of the comments about teaching salaries being too high are pathetic. What
most of these people fail to remember is that teachers have a college degree.
Students put in four hard years of education, paying out of pocket for a career
that will pay them no better than a fast food manager without a degree. Case in
point: My mother in law taught in the Granite School district for many years.
By the time she retired in 2001 she had put in 46 years as an educator. She
retired with a salary of about $45,000 per year. One of her son's
graduated from BYU with a four year degree in computer science and was earning
$75,000 within the first 5 years of his career. Her other son graduated from
USU with a degree in civil engineering and was making $50,000 within the first 5
years of his career.
Teaching is as much as a profession as nursing, computer science, engineering, law, medicine etc.
Yet folks like Neal, Do the Math, & Lynn seem to feel that teachers make "good money" and should either take the "good money" offered, or leave the state.
Neal, Do the Math & Lynn here is a newsflash just for you--- Teachers are leaving the profession in droves, not just here in Utah, but nationwide. (The average time teachers stay in the profession is five years.) Why put 4 years into a profession that pays very little compared to other professions? I'll tell you why, it is not just about having summers off, or supposedly great working hours. Teachers go into the profession to make a difference in the life of children. If not your child, perhaps a friend's child, a niece/nephew, or maybe even a grandchild.
Teaching is as much as a profession as nursing, computer science, engineering, law, medicine etc.
Yet folks like Neal, Do the Math, & Lynn seem to feel that teachers make "good money" and should either take the "good money" offered, or leave the state.
Neal, Do the Math & Lynn here is a newsflash just for you--- Teachers are leaving the profession in droves, not just here in Utah, but nationwide. (The average time teachers stay in the profession is five years.) Why put 4 years into a profession that pays very little compared to other professions? I'll tell you why, it is not just about having summers off, or supposedly great working hours. Teachers go into the profession to make a difference in the life of children. If not your child, perhaps a friend's child, a niece/nephew, or maybe even a grandchild.
Scartissue | 8:07 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007
-People aren't saying teaching salaries are too high, they just want you to
stop complaining. I could make more money in another state, but I like Utah so I
stay.
-Someone wondered where a new teacher is supposed to live with housing prices-- like the rest of us, rent an apartment until you have saved enough money.
-Most professionals have to do some work outside of their contracted hours.
-Many of us spend $ out of our own pockets on work related expenses.
-Great teachers deserve every penny they can get, lazy teachers should be fired.
This socialized education system seems to be working great for you teachers. Just imagine the complaining we will hear from doctors if our nation ever completely adopts socialized medicine.
How come we rarely hear university professors complain...I guess because that system does operate like a free market.
-Someone wondered where a new teacher is supposed to live with housing prices-- like the rest of us, rent an apartment until you have saved enough money.
-Most professionals have to do some work outside of their contracted hours.
-Many of us spend $ out of our own pockets on work related expenses.
-Great teachers deserve every penny they can get, lazy teachers should be fired.
This socialized education system seems to be working great for you teachers. Just imagine the complaining we will hear from doctors if our nation ever completely adopts socialized medicine.
How come we rarely hear university professors complain...I guess because that system does operate like a free market.
Leah | 9:52 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007
I live in a Seattle suburb and work as an instructional aid, so I see how hard
teachers work. I have a BA and originally wanted to continue to teacher
certification so I could have the "same hours" as my young daughter.
HA! Teachers work long hours! I worked summer school this year and came home
exhausted after 3.5 hours. It is demanding, tough but vitally important
work!
Also, I have to say, I visited Utah last summer and fell in love. We drove there and so stopped often at little stores, gas stations, stopped in little towns for a break in the drive and then stayed a week near SLC. I see why people accept lower pay to live there. The atmosphere was lovely, the people so kind and polite. Sadly, I couldn't go this year, but hope to next year.
Also, I have to say, I visited Utah last summer and fell in love. We drove there and so stopped often at little stores, gas stations, stopped in little towns for a break in the drive and then stayed a week near SLC. I see why people accept lower pay to live there. The atmosphere was lovely, the people so kind and polite. Sadly, I couldn't go this year, but hope to next year.
JB | 12:21 p.m. Aug. 21, 2007
I am getting so sick of hearing about the teacher shortage in Utah. I have a
friend that lives in England and she has been trying to come to Utah to teach
for several years, not withstanding the pay. She finally hired someone to help
her and they found out that Utah does not allow anyone from a foreign country to
teach in Utah. Why not?
She has been teaching for many years in England and has a very good referral from her school. She has been told that teaching positions are available in Texas and Oregon. Why not Utah where she has friends and a support system.
She has been teaching for many years in England and has a very good referral from her school. She has been told that teaching positions are available in Texas and Oregon. Why not Utah where she has friends and a support system.
Phil | 5:44 p.m. Aug. 21, 2007
To JB: I don't understand your comment that Utah doesn't allow
teachers from a foreign country to teach in Utah.
I'm from New Zealand and 5 years ago, while deciding whether to emigrate to Utah or not (my wife and I have children living there) got certificated to teach in Utah. All I had left to do was my background check and actually find a job. In the end we didn't make the move, but I was never given any impression that I wouldn't be able to find a job because I was not an American.
I'm from New Zealand and 5 years ago, while deciding whether to emigrate to Utah or not (my wife and I have children living there) got certificated to teach in Utah. All I had left to do was my background check and actually find a job. In the end we didn't make the move, but I was never given any impression that I wouldn't be able to find a job because I was not an American.
Fearless Joe | 9:58 p.m. Aug. 21, 2007
The School Districts consider a shortage as only turning away one-hundred
candidates. It is remarkable that this is the first year Granite has its full
staff in place. Where there is definitely a shortage happens to be in Special
Education---not the traditional classroom setting where the state still sees a
reasonable if dwindling glut of potential candidates.
Is Utah going to retain teachers? No. So often we lose teachers in their EYE years simply do to starting of families, and women choosing to stay at home with their kids. You could quadruple the pay and still we would see that because of the Utah values.
Is Utah going to retain teachers? No. So often we lose teachers in their EYE years simply do to starting of families, and women choosing to stay at home with their kids. You could quadruple the pay and still we would see that because of the Utah values.
Bill | 6:38 a.m. Aug. 23, 2007
You get what you pay for.
Illinois teacher too | 12:10 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007
I can certainly appreciate why Utah is experiencing a teacher shortage. The
many reasons listed are all valid; low pay, too many kids in the families with
the same tax base, too many "laws", stress... I was most interested
in the fact that Kindergarten teachers are difficult to find and keep. I taught
Kindergarten for twelve years and am happily moving to 5th this year. I loved
Kindergarten, but the primary reason for moving was Special Education. I got
very tired of all the drama of inclusion and parent's demands and Special
Education guidelines. If I had to move to Utah to teach, I would have to say I
don't know that I would consider going back to Kindergarten, even though I
LOVE TEACHING Kindergarten and I LOVE the age-group. I have realized,later than
most, that I would need to make a lot more money to entice me to consider
teaching in a hard to fill opening. Money does matter when there are other
choices one can make, especially when outlining states are doing such a good job
of making a better offer.
Anonymous | 2:26 p.m. Aug. 24, 2007
You know the funny thing about all this?? I personally know somebody who is a
part time teacher and they do not want to take her in because she
doesn�t want to go full time. That�s
about the most interesting thing ever to me. They should be looking for anything
they can get, but they aren�t.
Anonymous | 6:24 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007
I am a young High School English teacher working on a Masters degree in
Educational Leadership. Sadly, I know that after next year, unless house prices
drop and salaries go up, I will HAVE to move in order to get ahead in life.
It's pretty pathetic when people want to stay but literally can't
because it will hinder their life goals, etc. Also, for those out there who
think teachers only work 8 hours a day, I would be happy to give you some of my
150 papers to grade.....then go chaperone a dance, take tickets at a soccer
game, talk to a parent or two after school, enter grades, plan lessons, make
photo copies, and make sure you're continuously building trust with your
students. Please, you have no idea what you're talking about.
anonymous | 5:01 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007
We farm for a living in Utah. Hours are terrible, pay not great, never know if
you'll have a crop, no insurance or benefits, but that is what we have
chosen to do. We get fresh air, raise great kids, and enjoy what we do. You do
what you have to do. Teachers are not picked on it is what they have chosen to
do.
Lucy | 11:28 a.m. Nov. 26, 2007
How about searching for locals like my, who have a bachelors degree, working on
my teaching certificate but not until March because is when the courses are
re-open;I am also bilingual, instead of bringing teachers from all over the
world just because they are certified. How about helping me getting my teaching
certification and then be able to teach as soon as possible. I am currently a
Substitute Teacher for Jordan and Granite, from K to 12, on a daily basis I
receive more than 5 phone calls from teachers I have substitute for, requesting
my help again and again, their load is just way to heavy to carry, Spanish
speaking areas in particular. Now, wouldn't be easier for the school
districts to hire me as a regular teacher since is what I am doing any way, and
help me get my certification sooner? I vision how easy would be if the state
office of education would look at all those applications and take their time
studying everyone's cases, I can promise you that the amount of teachers
that will come up from people like me would be hundreds and hundreds.
R | 3:10 p.m. Feb. 29, 2008
What about education cost sharing among states? When we educate our students
and they move out of state and impove the economy where they move Utah should be
compensated. It would involve more reporting, but could help solve Utah's
education costs relating to large families.
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Either educators have the most over inflated opinion of their value of any group I have ever encountered or they are actually the most underpaid group of people in the world. I don't know which it is.