Deseret News | Reader comments: Southern Virginia is penalized for paying players

Reader comments
Southern Virginia is penalized for paying players

Anonymous | 3:55 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

no school will ever be perfect includng BYU, while it does bill itself as "serving the lds Community" i will take the position that whether you are a student or a teacher attending a college, you represent that school, to everyone who is not a member i believe of that body, Worse things have happened at BYU among the students, the truth is though that they are both great schools and every now and again they both get people who occasionally misrepresent the school in some way.

George H.Hill | 6:38 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

I am very familiar with this school,having two sons that just finished there.To say that it provides a UNIQUE educational experience is an understatement.The great faculty who TRULY care about the students is beyond price.Some people honestly objected to the existence of a football program at all,that the money could have been better spent,but I don't have a postion on that.I enjoyed the games I attended.I know there are really fine people of character involved in the program. I am just saddened by any black mark on this fine place,that has come so far from its shaky beginnings. As my sons go back to Iraq for a second time in two weeks,they take the foundation that was laid for them at SVU.That,combined with their experiences in Mexico (2 yrs.),helped them face-and reface the desert.They always think of the loving people and green mountains of Rockbridge County in that horrible,foreign land.

ronnievoid | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

"Horrible, foreign land" is no doubt what Johnston's soldiers thought of the Utah desert when they marched "out there" to put down the Mormons and subject them to the law of the United States.

Is the Iraq situation really that much different? I hope the best for your sons. They obviously have a decent, caring parent, and have been raised with high principles and expectations. Hopefully that goodness follows them there and back.

void.

Comments continue below

Seeking Truth from SVU | 3:09 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

SVU is a good school, something just seems a little fishy now. This all happened back in March so why is it now showing up in the newpaper? Also, if a student athlete was paid as the article implies they knowingly broke the rules and students at SVU have been kicked out for something less then taking $4000. And knowing Coach Buer there is a lot more to this story. Coach Buer is not that stupid to pay student athletes. Also nothing has changed, SVU was not eligible for NAIA post season last year and they were not going to be eligible this year either. Please keep in mind that the faculty at SVU are top notch, the environment is second to none and the school continues to improve each year.

Bill | 3:23 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Iraq and the Utah war are vastly different. The "rebellion" that prompted Johnstons army being sent here didn't exist except as a fabrication on the part of corrupt federal officials. It is true that the people of Utah wanted to be left alone but given their previous expierence with the federal government's refusal to come to their aide it's not exactly surprising. The people of Utah didn't fire upon the army, no life was taken, and they were not blowing each other up either. In fact if you will recheck your history when it was all said and done many people welcomed the army's presence if only because it brought some hard currency into the area.

I think "horrible" is an appropriate word for a place where at any moment your neighbors might be setting off a bomb in hopes of blowing up you and your family.

Beyond both places having an arid climate there are no similarities.

Big Red | 5:13 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

It is showing up now because the ruling putting SVU on probation is what they are reporting, not the actual violations or reporting of the violations to the NAIA. I, too, attended SVU (back when it was SVC and had about 200 students)...interesting place and concept. I lasted a semester (I needed an environment that had more than half the student body living in one dormitory) but I am still friends with most of the people I met. For the student-athletes sake, I hope they bounce back and continue to provide a unique educational and athletic experience.

Anonymous | 10:03 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Coach Buer is a really good guy. Maybe the school should look into crooked tom longnecker as the real problem at SVU.

ronnievoid | 10:53 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Bill: "The "rebellion" that prompted Johnstons army being sent here didn't exist except as a fabrication on the part of corrupt federal officials."

"Rebellion" vs "Terrorism": the difference seems more than a trite matter of jargon.

Have we already forgotten what got us over there in the first place? Let's be sensible, people. I'll agree we caused a mess that we're now responsible for staying and cleaning up--and our troops need our support in that endeavor, but please don't blame the next big Islamic terrorist strike in America fully on Osama and his kin. And please don't even think about tacking a bit of blame on Mr. Hussein.

One day not long ago Brother Brigham made this country a convenient boogy man and scapegoat for progressive violence.

void.

Mother of former SVU student | 11:55 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

You ony have to look around the country to see that our young people and their leaders are being tempted from all corners - not all faculty and coaches at SVU are members of the LDS community, unlike BYU and it is that diversity that also makes them more vulnerable. I only wish that the $4000 had been offered up to a bright, dedicated, return missionary in the form of financial aid, and then maybe a single mother of 3 could have afforded to send her son back to such a wonderful, rich environment instead of having to choose between paying tution, and paying his mission expenses.
My son developed a love for the gospel at SVU that will forever shine brighter than any football scandal will ever tarnish.
SVU truly is a "light set on the hill for all to see", and the young people who attend SVU are second to none - even BYU would have to search it's halls far and wide to find better facutly and students than SVU has to offer.
I am so proud that my son had the opportunity to attend SVU prior to his mission, and will continue to be proud of our association with the Blue Ridge wonder for years to come.

Ex-SVU fan | 2:30 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

Coach Buer is one of the finest men I know and Athletic Director Tom Longnecker is wrong to imply he is a man of low moral character. From what I know, this was not the huge controversy Longnecker wants you to believe. It was the end of a witch hunt started three years ago when Longnecker tried to fire Coach Buer for no reason at all. He won the appeal and kept his job, but when an honest mistake involving money and a playerï¿½s tuition came up, Longnecker saw his chance to get rid of Coach Buer. SVU ï¿½self-reportedï¿½ the technical violation to the NAIA, even though SVU is not yet a member of the NAIA. My question is, how can they be subject to sanctions from the NAIA if they are not full members? The real problem here lies with that incompetent AD and the incompetent administration of SVU. How else can you explain the horrendous tuition costs charged for such a podunk little school, and how else can you explain why, after over 10 years, this ï¿½universityï¿½ has yet to really get off the ground? You can call this a scandal if you want, but I call ï¿½em like I see ï¿½em. For some reason, Longnecker is just out to smear Coach Buer and ruin his reputation. This whole sorry situation has lost SVU this fan and his money.

Rodney K. Smith | 6:30 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

As President of Southern Virginia University, I am well aware of all that transpired in this sad moment in our history. I can attest to the fact that this was not a witch hunt. I can also attest to the fact that both Gary Buer and Tom Longenecker are fine men. I actually initiated the process when I learned that students may have received money from Coach Buer, outside of our established financial aid process. When I learned of this, I took two steps: 1. I asked our athletic director, Tom Longenecker, to investigate; and 2. I arranged a meeting with Coach Buer. Coach Buer was, in keeping with his character, forthright and honest from the very beginning. He acknowledged the payments but indicated that he did not know that such payments violated NAIA rules. When he learned that they did, he offered to step down in the interests of the football program that he had founded. With the aid of a faculty committee, we commenced a formal investigation and reported our findings to the NAIA. Coach Buer founded a wonderful football program. He established captains of five, a program in which returned missionaries on the team worked with younger players. One of his captains was valedictorian of the class of 2006. Two of his players and one assistant coach have been baptized during the past year. We emphasize leadership and service, being leader-servants, at SVU, and the football program is designed around that mission. With Gary's cooperation, and the hard work of our new coach and the entire athletic department, under the leadership of Tom Longenecker, we have a record number of returnees and players on the team this year. I am sad this happened, but I am grateful for the men who have built the program.

Former Player/Ex-Alumnus | 6:43 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I played for Coach Buer and was sorry to hear he had been dragged into this whole situation. Sure, he made a mistake (and, unlike the article indicates, I really don't think Coach Buer would jeopardize his career by "knowingly violating" these rules, or, as another comment indicated, "misrepresent" the school or the LDS church), but I wouldn't say these players were "paid" to play. No offense to my teammates, but no player that has gone to SVU is THAT good to receive money to play. This media release by SVU is malicious in its intent to destroy the character of a great man who made a very small mistake but invested so much into a poorly conceived and ill-supported football program. Maybe we should look into some of the stuff Longenecker put athletes through, such as, making players travel in personal cars to away games, providing pre-game meals from McDonalds (mmmmm...that one egg mcmuffin really hit the spot! Thanks Tom!), going to a "national" tournament when two other teams show up...Yeah, that's a REAL national championship under your belt. No wonder they have been able to win like 30+ "national championships" in the past 10 years. Ask any former athlete and they'll tell the truth. If you are a potential sponsor, save your money and go elsewhere. SVU is a great concept, but the administration is unable and unwilling to accept athletics for nothing more than increased enrollment for a poorly managed university. As an ex-alumnus and former player, I'm taking my money and energy to an institution that actually cares about its students and employees.

M. Worthington, SVU Alum | 10:00 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I attended SVU for my entire college career, and although I'm not an athlete I've always known Coach Buer to be a good and honest man. I trust President Smith's comment that he was forthright. This is indeed an unfortunate event and I have been truly disappointed to hear of it. But as a former student I know that this mistake cannot change the fact that the educational opportunities at this place are simply incomparable. The faculty-student relationship and atmosphere at this school cannot be beat. I have developed profound respect for the Professors who have taught and inspired me, LDS and non-LDS alike. As an institution SVU is far from perfect. It is a young thing and still fighting to establish itself. But look to the beginnings of great organizations such as the Mormon church or the founding of this nation and I assure you that even at the beginnings of great institutions there were unfortunate events and mistakes along the way. Those mistakes aren't justified, but a good thing is worth fighting for and supporting, and SVU has my unwavering support.

Anonymous | 7:51 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

The money that those students "received" was from an outside contributor that went straight to the SVU business office as a donation earmarked to help pay the players tuition so they could continue their education and continue to play football. Something they might not have been able to do otherwise. No money changed hands with the players or Coach Buer. The school is not under NAIA jurisdiction so it appears that someone has an axe to grind against SVU and Coach Buer and are fabricating a story to do it.

Bryan Gentry | 11:45 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I don't know if you can actually find an institution that cares more about its faculty and students. Before attending SVU I went to a college where the college president only gave me the light of the day because I was a reporter for the local daily paper. But at SVU students at any level of "power" in the school have been able to sit down with president Smith to discuss their concerns and get problems solved.

I disagree with the way this article makes Buer look like a bad guy who knowingly broke a rule. But I also disagree with everyone who tries to make Tom Longenecker look foul. I know from personal experience that he is not perfect. But I also know that he is faithful in the church. People who disagree with his job performance should discuss it with him and Pres. Smith, not defame his character.

Reality Check | 2:19 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

It's already been mentioned that there has been opposition to the concept of establishing a football program at this stage of the University's development. Those sentiments were right on the money. A potentially great Liberal Arts University has become a frustrating Conservative Sports University, where deserving and successful programs struggle with modest salaries and mediocre resources, while the athletic teams also struggle, with sub standard support, when the focusing of resources may allow this institution to actually accomplish it's vision, rather than just giving some (no offense boys) generally mediocre athletes a few last years in the game.

Alum... | 5:13 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

So, this boil downs to improper booster funding? I wonder why the donor didn't want the money to be put into the development office.

Anonymous | 5:51 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

You mean like Tom defamed Gary's character?

Anonymous | 7:02 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

Anyone who goes on public record with personal, vindictive statements about Coach Buer, or anyone else for that matter, should be subject to the same scrutiny and embarrassment. This scandal illustrates that SVU is unwilling to accept personal responsibility for these events. I find it interesting that they force Buer to resign because of these allegations, but the University CLEARLY FAILED to teach, monitor, and test their coaches on all rules.

Doesn't that seem contradictory that one person will be forced into resignation while his superiors aren't even given a slap on the wrist? No one is judging Tom Longenecker's faithfulness as a member of the LDS church, just his inability to competently manage his position as athletic director. I believe that the administration should accept full responsibility for these sanctions. Maybe Smith and Longenecker should be forced to resign as well?

As superiors to Coach Buer, they failed to provide him the necessary tools to operate within the NAIA, or USCAA, or whichever national association they eventually decide to associate the university with. Clearly, these events are being unloaded onto one individual to take the embarrassment off of the university as they try to distance themselves from the "bad guy."

It really is interesting why President Smith would choose to allow a press release that is so insulting, damaging, and clearly untrue about Coach Buer to come out of his institution, yet find time to comment on deseretnews.com the supposed "facts" of the entire situation.

Anonymous | 8:00 a.m. Aug. 23, 2007

Let the truth be told, Coach Buer knew exactly what he was doing. President Smith and Tom Longenecker had no choice but to do what was done. I find it intresting that there is such a smear campaign going on against SVU and nobody is willing to hold the coach responsible. HE knew better. I remember when he told us if anyone goes against our football team then we should take them in a corner and beat them. Sounds like that is what is happening here.I know he paid those players with cash and checks for rent,and car payments. Sounds like the crook is Coach Buer. I know that President Smith and Tom Longenecker are men of honor and truly care about SVU. I think SVU is a special place and once they got rid of the men who were smearing the football program it will only get better. Let the truth be told.
Former Player

Ammon Magnusson | 11:31 a.m. Aug. 23, 2007

As former player under Coach Buer and Student Body President during the investigation, I was priveleged to information that proved that the money that was given to the two players went for tuition only. I personally know both players and both will tell you it went for tuition only. That money did not go for rent or car payments. SVU is an amazing school that changed my life. The chance that I had to serve the student body made me better and I hope that I left the campus better when I graduated. I now have a brother who is attending and I am excited that he will get the same education that I did. All who are associated with this situation are good individuals who have all payed for what has happened. The anger that thrives towards the administration is derived from what many students feel is a hiding of the facts about other situations that occurred during the early years of SVU. Pres Smith acknowledges that Coach told the truth from the beginning about the situation with the paying of players, and Pres Smith highly recommended Coach for his new position in Arizona. That was told to me by Pres Smith himself. SVU will always have my support. They have done things that have upset me, but so has the United States which I continue to support. I personally struggle with Tom Longnecker because I had a horrible experience with him as a coach and I struggle looking past how he conducted himself and how he treated me and other players. I was not a good player but I worked hard. Could things be done better at SVU? Of course. Any where you look things can be done better.

The Truth? | 2:30 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

If Buer "knew" what he was doing, then certainly Longenecker knew what he was doing when he tried to get rid of Buer the first time after he caught wind that Buer would let him go as defensive coordinator. Longenecker also knew what he was doing when he put Buer's name all over the papers - definitely an easy way to keep yourself out of hot water. It's no secret that Smith, Longenecker, and Ralls were professionally embarrassed when they had to re-hire Coach Buer after erroneously dismissing him in '04. Ever since that point, the administration was at odds with Buer and found, at last, a "viable" reason to release Buer...and, it may be the best for both parties since SVU now has a puppet under their wings that won't hold them to any of their promises they make to their coaches and challenge them when they don't.

The reason for the "smear campaign," as anonymous former player puts it, is because SVU has failed for 10+ years to become everything they promise to become. It's no secret among the LDS community that the school administration is a joke. Look at their retention rate...sure is a puzzler why so many students elect not to return to graduate from SVU. Yeah, the professors do rock, you have a small class size, blah blah blah...You can't take those strengths away from SVU, but you can't deny that SVU, as a whole, is unprepared, under qualified, and unprofessional.

I guess anonymous former player will probably be upset to read that the student body president actually verified with SVU administration that the money still went to the university for tuition payments, and not for "cash and checks for rent, and car payments."

If you're so interested in truth "former player", check your sources.

D. Baxter | 4:12 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

I can't understand all the hate coming towards SVU. As a great new school with an awesome faculty, I am amazed at all the hate coming out. Apparently a few bad apples can ruin the bunch. All of you "hatin" on the school, Pres. Smith, and Longenecker are misinformed. Coach Buer broke the rules period.It is black and white, not gray.I know the staff are doing all they can with the resources they have. STOP looking for a scapegoat, or fabricating stories about witch hunts, etc. I am pleased Coach Buer took responsibility for his actions and hope he can continue to move forward. As for all the people "hiding" behind your computers, I say to you...GROW UP! Let's teach our youth about responsibilty and stop pointing fingers.
Derrick Baxter

Hiding | 5:31 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

I believe all the "hatin" stems from the fact that the university has failed to take responsibility for anything that has transpired over the years, including the latest incident with Coach Buer. Yes, Coach Buer has accepted responsibility and has moved on, until the university comes out saying that "he (Buer) did it all." No where in the article does it talk about how the AD and his superiors failed to provide any sort of training, offer any manuals, etc. They didn't, and if you ask any former coach, or any current coach for that matter, you'll arrive at the same conclusion.

Really, current students, alumni, parents, athletes, and donors are asking that the university grow up and accept responsibility.

You're absolutely right, Derrick Baxter (thanks for not hiding, by the way), the issues are black and white, not gray, and until the university grows up and accepts responsibility for their actions, they will have individuals "hatin" on them.

-Hiding

Jacob | 5:46 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

Apparently Buer was not much of a coach. I looked up the stats the past few years. WOW! I am surprised they did not fire him sooner. It looks like the athletic department gave him plenty of time to put together a winning season. We all know that most universities do cheat when it comes to athletics. When you cheat and don't win is when it becomes a crime. I know many players from SVU and I think the school, town, and definitely the football program is better off without him. I hope the new coach wins every game this year and then all of you former wannabe football players will have nothing to compalin about.
Thanks
I'm Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Anonymous | 5:57 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

Nice comment "Hiding" I researched Coach Buer and the University and found a few things out. Number 1 is he did not win many football games. Number 2 He seemed like a mature gentleman. I have never played a down in college footabll and I can assure you that I know the rules associated with the greatest game. What handbook, manuals, etc. do you need. Give it up already, I am sure they fired him for being a mediocore coach and for breaking the rules and still losing football games. Next time I get pulled over I will tell the officer and judge that nobody gave me the handbook or manual and that the system should accept responsibility. Nice Defense.

SVU Student | 6:14 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

Unfortunately, the system does make you accept responsibility. Ever hear of driver training/driver testing? It's pretty hard to get a license without either one of them. So, you really did get the manual and handbook after all. Ask the players who played under him what they thought of him and then ask them and the current coaches what resources they have to make all the athletic programs successful. Also, ask the faculty who were there before football came and ask how the program was conceived...maybe, if you ask some questions, you'll arrive at a different perspective. And wouldn't you know, one of those "wannabe" players actually had a tryout with the Carolina Panthers. I guess we've all still got something to complain about.

D. Brown | 7:13 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

I think Buer did the best he could with the limited resources SVU wants to give athletics. That aside, Buer has obviously moved on and doesn't harbor hate toward SVU. He always taught his players better than that. Why can't the rest of you do the same?

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/preps/nw/articles/0822hsindependence0822.html

Letterman | 7:40 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

I played for Coach Buer through the thick and thin and love that man deeply. Those who were here know some of the big issues that he, the team, and the school have been through. We've shared a good number of tears wins, loses, and disappointments along the way. I love the game of football and I loved that man for his passion and ability to coach the game. Best of luck to Coach at his newest school. They are lucky to have him.

By the way, Jacob, let's hope the Knights do win every game...especially this opener....I mean, come on, an 0-11 team last year? Inside scoop says they'll score offensively with a solid o-line, but defense lacks experience and depth.

Thanks for the post D.

Wins and Loses | 6:26 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007

Jacob apparently doesn't know football that well. If he would spend more time researching, he would find there are numerous legendary coaches that did not produce winning records within the first four years of taking over a program (check out Hayden Fry, for example). Sounds like a former SVU player who didn't get much playing time under Buer. It appears his comments are more personal than objective about the situation anyways.

Yeah, let's hope they do win all their games, especially with the stiff competition ahead...that'll shut us up:
Kentucky Wesleyan was 0-11 for 2006
Guilford College was 6-4 for 2006
Ferrum College was 2-7 for 2006
Lincoln - I can't even find info for them
George Mason was 4-6 for 2006
West Virginia State was 5-6 for 2006
Kentucky Christian - 1st year program in 2007
Frostburg State was 2-7 for 2006
Faulkner - 1st year program in 2007
Apprentice was 7-3 for 2006
Edward Waters was 1-9 for 2006

Thanks Jacob. Now I'm out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jacob | 7:55 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007

I have forgotten more football than you will ever know. Your dodging the issue "wins and loses". Coach Buer was a below average football caoach. I had the chance to meet Coach Mike Smith and I know he will do a much better job than those before him. The issuse is dead. Buer is gone, good riddance. All these posts sound like a couple of his former players trying to defend the only coach that would give them a chance to continue to play football. I admire the fact that you are trying to defend the only coach who would let you be on a roster. It is time for your former school to move forward and forget about the black eye Buer gave SVU football. Good luck Knights in 2007. Bring honor back to the program!

SVU FAN | 8:11 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007

You are right AMMON. I don't ever remember seeing you play in a game, but you were wrong about one thing. I was friends with the player who took the money and he told me point blank that he used the dough for car payments and rent as a previous post said. So please quit crying. I love SVU and hope that they can continue to build and grow into the wonderful place it should be. I think President Smith and the entire athletic department have done a wonderful job in spite of the mess that your former coach left behind. I know that the right people are in place to move this school forward and continue to build a traditon of excellence.
TRUE SVU FAN

Selective Fan Indeed | 10:29 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007

If you're such a true fan, why are you so condescending on those former players that you claim to be a true fan of, or are you a band wagon fan, selecting only those that fit your agenda? Also, if you are a true fan, you would probably remember Ammon playing. FYI: Ammon actually played in seven games....people really need to check their sources - it makes for terrible arguments.

Truth be told... | 11:25 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007

Actually, I am the REALLY REAL friend of those players who were "paid to play." I know for a FACT they both bought mansions in the D.C. area and they are both driving new Hummers and one even flies his own corporate jet to Europe every weekend! (The other one was wiser...he invested the rest of the "dough" he was given so he can be financially secure for the rest of his life.) Gimme a break. As a previous post said, none of the players at SVU is really good enough to be paid to play. This is a school where those who cannot play at any other level can come and play "college ball." It's good to see Coach Smith has arranged such a tough schedule this year. While he's at it, he should just forget the NAIA and join the USCAA like the other club sports SVU has. At least Buer tried to improve the program by playing somewhat quality opponents. I've done my research on that one...under Buer SVU regularly played NAIA and DII schools and actually won a few. Just imagine if he had set up schedules like Coach Smith. SVU would have been "National Champions" like every other club sport at SVU. Dream on. SVU needs a bigger committment from Admin in order to put a decent team together.

SVU's Tradition of Excellence | 11:52 a.m. Aug. 24, 2007

There are bigger issues at SVU than the quality of the football team's opponents or the legitimacy of the sports teams' "national championships". Consider the following facts relative to building SVU's "tradition of excellence" over the past decade and becoming the "best liberal arts college" in the world. Buyer beware!

Percent applicants admitted 98.4%
Percent admitted who enrolled full-time 20.9%
Full-time student retention 57%
4-year graduation rate 2%
5-year graduation rate 12%
6-year graduation rate 20%
http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/cool/index.aspx

think about it | 5:48 p.m. Aug. 25, 2007

Do those statistics take missionary service into account? Because if so, the six year graduation rate makes sense. I started school at SVU in 2001, and graduated in 2007-all because of the mission. If that's what the statistic shows, then it ain't all bad, right?

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