Deseret News | Reader comments: Pro-voucher poll called 'despicable'

Reader comments
Pro-voucher poll called 'despicable'

WC | 7:38 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Wow - a new low maybe? Even though the pro-voucher groups are misrepresenting the views of the UEA and NEA it is a non-issue. The people of Utah are smarter than this. I have faith we will be able to see through these sort of tactics and look at the real facts of the voucher issue. I'll tell you that these sort of desperate measures don't show the pro-voucher group to have many good arguments if they have to resort to this business. But I guess that is what you get when the pro-voucher groups take tons of out of state money and resources - they don't understand our Utahn sensibility.

freedomfighter | 8:03 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Evil never likes being exposed, as evidenced by it's reaction to this poll.

BF | 8:45 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Maybe the taxpayers could see that this could save them a lot of money. Less government money to educate children.

The part that seems wrong is still paying school districts after the students leave. What happened to supply and demand?

Do you think if I had a grocery store and my customers were not satisfied and took business elsewhere the government would still pay me for loss of income?

That does not seem too bright.

Educating children has become big business. Children should not be pawns in providing jobs for adults. Let us get back to making whatever is best for the children our priority.

Comments continue below

Shedlight | 9:07 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

This article does not explain the language of the Voucher Bill. I would like to know the ramifications the language in the bill. What kind of strings come with a voucher. That is all important if it is going to really help parents find a school that will accept the voucher. The NEA is the largest labor union in the United States. It has a stranglehold on American education. It has its own agenda, which is not for quality education in the United States. The NEA is all about power and control. It is not for the teachers is represents, the PTA, or anything to do with promoting quality education. That should be a warning sign. They do not want to loose the millions of dollars they skim from Utah teachers who are forced to join their union. Perhaps that is the reason they are so against vouchers.
In any case, I would like to know the real reason the NEA, the UEA and the PTA are really against vouchers. I would like to know more about the ramifications of the current voucher bill. I am all about the truth that may be hiding somewhere in all of this.

WSLC | 9:13 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Why is Wayne Holland speaking on this issue? This isn't a democrat - republican issue. Des News - find better resources.

Kevin | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Public money should never go to religious organizations, be they charities or schools. This cheap tactic reveals that it's religion pushing for vouchers. I'll ask my LDS friends: do you want your tax dollars going to churches that teach Mormonism is a cult?

Fred | 9:26 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Why is NEA et all against vouchers? How about tax $ being used to support religious agendas. Or, tax $ being used to support segregation. Then maybe itï¿½s the fact that private schools do not have to provide a full complement of government mandated programs.

Chuck | 10:04 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

So Parents for Choice is wallowing in the mud first. This is even lower than anything I've seen NEA do! It just shows that to PfC, this issue isn't about truth. Truth can stand on its own. It doesn't have to stoop to such low levels. People who do, aren't usually telling the truth.

GOPBringsTheHate | 10:05 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Anti-gay statements bring the biggest applause lines at Utah Republican Party conventions.

Voucher proponents know what motivates their political base, and associating voucher opponents with same-sex marriage is a tactic to get the haters on board their campaign.

It'll be interesting, and sad, to see if it works.

shameonthem | 12:13 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Big business will do ANYTHING to get at the huge pot of money in public education.
Privat schools do not have the same requirements as public schools they don't have to provide all of the services that public schools have to provide and yet big buisness would have us believe that this is all about "competition" making education better?
No it is about greed and how do we get the money. If they want to compete then make the rules the same for private schools then they can compete.

Blaine | 12:48 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

While Utah is probably better than most in this regard, many people in this state are sick and tired of sending their children off to be indoctrinated by members of the NEA on anti-family and anti-Constitution issues. Parents are sick and tired of their children not getting the quality education given to previous generations in subjects such as communications skills, math and civics. They are sick and tired of their children being exposed to instruction (such as homosexuality as an acceptable or even good lifestyle) which they believe is immoral and destructive. The government education system, cowed by the NEA and its socialist agenda, desperately needs competition in order to bring it back to where is actually serves the needs of students. The voucher program is a small step in that direction. The NEA and its members fear that competition and clearly are ready to fight it. So what if that voucher goes to a church-run school if the students get a good education coupled with traditional moral values? The money goes to education -- not to support the church!

Voucher Hype | 1:38 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

There seems to be a small number of elected officials who are pushing their education reform agenda on the majority. They fabricate a problem (ie. Public schools are failing!!) and then say that vouchers are the answer because they will give parents 'choice.'
Public schools are not failing. They educate more students better than ever. Of course there are problelms, but vouchers or smaller school districts won't solve problems.
As far as choice goes, vouchers do not give more choices. The choice to go to a private school is already there.
Smaller districts don't change the fact that teachers will have to teach to the tests and according to the state core.
Blaine's argument that he needs to save his children from the socialist agenda of liberal teachers is laughable.
Now I am going to say something radical. If you are afraid of liberals and gays teaching your students their 'evil' values, then vote for legislators who will raise teacher salaries to the point that a married man with children can afford to be a teacher. As it stands, the majority of people who can afford to go into teaching as a profession are the following: women who teach to bring a second income to the home, and gays.
Really, though, if we really want Utah students to achieve more in school, parents need to do drill and practice at home to reinforce what their children are learning at school. That would be the best kind of parental involvement in education.

ProEducation | 2:01 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Blaine - unfortunately you have a problem. Statistics show that the more educated one is the more liberal they are. The more liberal one is the more likely they are going to support gay members of our society - and other progressive morals and values. So unless you want uneducated, and by that conservative, teachers - you are going to have to realize this is the great future of our world.

Fred | 10:02 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

The NEA is about promoting education of all the youth of America, and protecting the rights of teachers. They are not pushing a social agenda. The have written a position paper supporting tolerance of different lifestyles. I am LDS, I am a school teacher, I am a member of UEA and NEA, I was not forced into any of those organizations. As a member of the LDS church I believe that I have been taught tolerance for lifestyles I may disagree with. Same thing that NEA is supporting.

I find it highly amusing when I read the comments about what is being taught in the school systems. I would suggest you acquire the health curriculum on sex education and read it before suggesting what is being taught about alternative lifestyles. If the teachers in your local area are teaching outside of the curriculum, I suggest you go to your school board. If that teacher is teaching outside of what is in that curriculum, they are risking their teaching career.

The ramifications of vouchers are simple, money leaves the public school system. Voucher proponents will have you believe that if a child leaves the school that the school will save money. Simple example, we have 4 classes of third graders and the average class size is 30 (120 students total) and 20 students leave with vouchers for private schools. There is no money saved, there are still going to be 4 teachers 25 students per class. We didn't eliminate any secretaries, lunch ladies, custodians etc. But that district lost the WPU from the state, which is $2500 per student or $50,000 for the twenty students. I would love one of the pro voucher folks to show me where I am wrong in this example

Michael | 4:21 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

Thank you Fred. I have been watching and reading for the last ten years, and have yet to see any reliable statistics that demonstrate that the whole of those who have chosen to opt out of public education, recieve a better education. There are related cases for each side, but as a whole public education is responsible for the level of literacy and personal awareness that exist in this country today. Maybe I am missing something, but I still believe that this country has the highest level of voter involvment in goverment in the world.
Within the public school system you may find an occational mistake. Someone who has broken the laws and rules that govern public teaching. For every teacher that is guilty of doing such a thing, there are countless others who are not. Unfortunately, the same can be said of those who teach in non traditional conditions even thought their rules are less restrictive. The true issue here should be, what could make our children more safe, while they learn. This is true of any condition of education of which you support. The public pay for public education seems to make more sense to me. The private pay for private education would be the other side of that coin. You may or may not agree, but my public education has shown me that I have a right to express my opinion, just as anothers my have the right to express an opposing opinion.

Fred | 4:25 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

ProEducation,

Please produce your statistics about the more educated you are the more liberal you are. I have no statistics, but I have found that the more educated a person is (not necessarily the number of degrees a person has) the more diverse that persons ideas are. I tend to be conservative, even though many conservatives would find me liberal. As an example I don't agree with the current gay rights agenda, but I try to be friendly and kind to those who have chosen that lifestyle. I do not believe in abortion. But I also do not believe in the typical conservative position on guns. We need to become free thinkers rather than liberals or conservatives, republicans or democrats. I believe that Americans are more alike than different, but we pigeonhole everyone with statements like proeducation made.

Karen | 5:48 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

1. No one in Utah is FORCED to join UEA. Neither is anyone forced to pay a fee whether a member or not (as is done in Alaska and a few other states.)

2. NEA's position on a woman's right to choose also helps women who want to have a baby. Case in point, a woman (in another state) was being pressured by her district to end a pregnancy. NEA support stood behind her in her right to have a child. The position is not focused on supporting abortion.

3. Teachers who are gay or lesbian should not be discriminated against or harassed because of it. Children who have gay or lesbian parents or loved ones do not deserve to be bullied. I would hope that most people would agree that at least children should be safe from torment in schools.

4. You can believe the UEA and NEA when we say that we are against vouchers because they have a negative impact on the money available to teach the students in our schools --around 96% of the total number of students in Utah. We have no hidden agenda. We seek to provide quality teachers with excellent materials in safe facilities.

I could go on, but if you buy the anti-public schools rhetoric of the pro-voucher people, nothing I offer would open that kind of closed mind.

Dan | 10:47 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

In every state where vouchers are fought, the #1 opponent is the ACLU. Enough said.

Fred | 5:26 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Dan,

With your logic, rather than think for ourselves, we should automatically be in favor of something because the ACLU opposes it? If the vouchers are so wonderful, let them stand on there merits. Why do the voucher supporters have to try to cloud the issue, with who is opposed to vouchers, and how horrible that group is. Try something new, lets have an intelligent discussion, with facts about the pro's and con's of the voucher program. Why are voucher supporters afraid of that, easy they will lose

Lorraine | 12:55 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am a school teacher. I also belong to the local school association. I belong because it protects my rights, especially as I have Multiple Sclerosis. I don't know one teacher at my school who supports the NEA. We would never follow their agenda. We are against almost everything the NEA stands for. Unfortunately, to belong to my local association I have to belong to the national one. Hopefully, this will change some day. My objection to vouchers is that it will only benefit the rich. The poor would received $3,000 which would usually be less than half what a private school charges. Take in account the fact that these people will also have to find a way to get their child to school, buy them school supplies, which are free at a elementary public school, and have to buy them lunch which would be provided free by the government at a public school. I'm tired to people complaining about teachers. My class and school gets some of the highest tests scores in the state. I usually spend close to $2,000 dollars of my OWN money to help these children learn. The problem with our schools, and I've been teaching over 20 years so I know what I'm talking about, is the disintegration of the family. No wonder I'm considering retiring in three years. Teaching is a hard job. Unless you been in the classroom for at least a month, you are clueless.

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