Deseret News | Ex-ref agrees with Jazz fans: Jordan pushed off

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Jazz notes: Ex-ref agrees with Jazz fans: Jordan pushed off

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A long time ago | 12:01 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Yes, it was a long time ago and yes we jazz fans do need to move on, but you know it's hard to do. I think it's just human nature to keep thinking back about what could have (and probably should have) been. There's no doubt calls go both ways in any sport, but in the case of the Jazz/Bulls series, I believe that the 2 or 3 notable bad calls against Utah hurt them more. Was it a conspiracy to get Jordan one last title? Honestly we will never know. As a jazz fan, I just feel bad that Stockton, Malone, and Sloan never won a title together. They definitely deserved one, but it just didn't happen. I hope Sloan can get one before he leaves coaching, but it's going to be tough.

from Idaho | 1:08 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I thought I was the only one who thought Jordan fouled Malone. I am so happy to find that it is true. I feel sorry for Stockton. Malone and Sloan. They never got the recognition they deserved. Sloan should still get coach of the year.

Better PF? | 1:16 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Karl's numbers are better and he is actually a PF! Tim Duncan is great, but lets be honest- he is a center and always will be. Just because the PA guy annoucnes him as a PF doesn't make it so. I guess D. Fish was a SG last year. Anyone complaining about Jazz fans dwelling on the past arent' Jazz fans. What else do you talk about during summer in Utah- our glorious triple A team? You people are the same ones that were suddenly Jazz fans again once they made a run in the playoffs. Bandwagon fans stay home.

Comments continue below

Colbinize | 1:56 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I am tired of people thinking that MJ was the Greatest player, its by far Stockton he was the all-around playmaker !!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO JAZZ

Let's be real | 1:57 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

All the talk above is just that, meaningless rhetoric. The fact is, the NBA, while entertaining, is just entertainment, not sport. It's no more sport than pro wrestling. It's played for money and it's big business. There's not a player in the league that would do it for virtually nothing like pro sports were years and years ago. There's no loyalty on the part of the players. You love one guy while he plays for your team and hate him when he takes more money elsewhere or takes a cut so he can get a ring. Pro sports is crap and all the rabid fans are beer-drinking idiots (except in Utah, of course, where their just idiots)!

mj | 2:17 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Lots of interesting dialogue here. Bad calls are always part of any game, but to have so many in one game, and to have all of them go in favor of the bulls was a bit too far-fetched. I've long felt that the shot-clock violations were the worst of the calls, if there would've been some consistency and both shots were called good or both were deemed to be too late then the final push-off is irrelevant. But to miss two shot-clock violations and have both benefit the Bulls means only one thing = the NBA was not going to allow mj walk away from basketball a loser and that's all there was to it. They couldn't allow a guy that did so much for the league not win in his final season. Obviously a great player won, but not the best team that year.

Excellent | 2:37 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

The above statement sums it all up perfectly. Nothing as horribe as the two shot clocks screws ups have happened in the NBA Playoffs since the NBA assured that the Spurs would beat the Suns by suspending Amare. Now with all of the scandals comming to light about refs fixing games, how can one not doubt that events like Game 6 in 98 where orchestrated?

let's be real | 3:04 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Finally we're telling it like it is. Like yarrlydarb says, you've got to be brain dead to belive the NBA is legit.

Kyle | 3:06 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

If you don't want to wallow in it, stop reading the comments. We're enjoying it.

I'd just like to say... I feel your pain.

I was in the cheap seats for that game and I'll never forget the feeling of inevitability as it slipped away. At the end of the game it was so silent in the Delta Center you could hear the air flowing throught the AC ducts as MJ danced on the table.

I had to relive the experience on a recent flight where the only sports channel they had on the plane was ESPN Classics and they just happened to be replaying all the Bulls playoff games. I don't know why but I watched it all again.

I can't tell if the refs influenced the game or if it was just fate but it still hurt. I don't think there is an anti-jazz conspiracy, but there is definatly some bad officiating out there. As long as I can blame it on incompetence it's just part of the game. If I really thought it was part of a "Bulls must win so MJ can retire in glory" story-board, I couldn't keep watching.

let's be real | 3:43 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

If there was ever a credible person (former player, coach, owner, whatever) it's gotta be John Stockton. He played the game because he loved it. He never hired an agent, he never fought over a contract. He never held out for more money, he never held back a thing (other than the fact that his knees were bad and he finally had to have surgery). Now, according to Larry Miller himself, John believed in a conspiracy. To my mind, John Stockton is the most credible of ALL persons affiliated or formally affliated with the NBA. Larry would be, too, but he's a current owner, he's barred from being totally open about the truth; the cost would be way to great. When he sells the team, maybe then he'll say what he truly believes. Why do you think nobody's been able to hire John to coach? Why does he stay at the college level? Because he knows the game played for mega bucks is dirty!

Really | 4:02 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

This is the first I've heard of John Stockton believing there was a conspiracy. Where did you read about this?

let's be real | 4:37 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Check out the "Sport's Beat" tapes with Larry Miller that aired on KSL TV during the playoffs. One of the last interviews with Larry, if not the last, includes a statement from him that John believed in a conspiracy. Larry didn't say if he agreed or disagreed with John. It was just after the game between the Spurs and the Suns when Horry made the flagrant foul against Nash and the two Suns players were suspended for coming out on the floor. I have no doubt that John played his whole career to prove that the "good guys" could actually win, in spite of the dirty refs; all they had to do was beat the other eight guys on the floor. Unfortunately his knees gave out before he was able to do that. Just think about it. Who in all the sport's world would be a better coach in the NBA than "The Little General?" I for one think his integrity will keep him donating his time to Gonzaga University unless Stern and the league itself clean up their act.

Zarathustra | 4:42 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

C'mon everybody. It's only a game.

Vishai | 4:51 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I will always consider someone calling me an idiot to know exactly what they are talking about especially when they spell so well--"Except Utah, where their all just idiots"

let's be real | 5:26 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

You think that it's only a game?! It's a BUSINESS a MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS! It's not "just a game"; how naive can you possibly be?
If you doubt what I said about Larry Miller's statement, give Tom Kirtland a call. I'm sure he'll gladly confirm I've told the truth.

Just a game | 5:47 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Playing pick-up with friends is just a game. Building an arena that holds 19,911 of the best fans in the NBA is a passion, a hobby. No body puts church ball games on TV- every Jazz game is televised. Yes there are more important things in life, but for Utahns, the Jazz are our team, our passion, and thats why news like this article displayed envokes our passion. If its just a game, read the politics section and stay off this blog.

let's be real | 5:52 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Sorry, I made another mistake. Not only did I type "their" when I should have typed "they're," I also said "Multi-million." I should have said "MULTI-BILLION!" Do you really think there's a single player, coach, owner, arena owner, manager, concessions operator, or janitor or broadcaster, or sports commentator, or any other person who makes money directly or indirectly with the NBA who thinks it's just a game?! If it were just a game they'd all be doing it just for the fun and to heck with the money!

Vishai | 9:33 p.m. Aug. 20, 2007

San Antonio is not a super market...Boston has been the armpit of the league for about a decade. If there were such corruption why did San Antonio end up with Duncan when everything went against the odds giving them that pick. LA is in shambles. Chicago has been pretty awful up until the last few years. The Knicks are a disaster... The alleged mecca of the basketball world. There's a ton of money involved in the game sure...But they aren't fixing things to ruin the credibility at least not at the league's core, and thereby discrediting what has been established. Such a tactic would be a straight course into financial losses. There is a Donaghy here and there, there is a Vick killing pitbulls, There are a ton of things going on behind every closed door worldwide. Publish your own secrets and then ask them to do the same...The league is not shady, Stern wouldn't risk his position by chasing a few million short term and sacrificing many more long term.

Jazz lost in '98 they blew a few calls...Oklahoma lost to Boise state. And the BCS will eventually fall. Amen

Lou Dobbs | 12:00 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

Just get over it. The Bulls won. The Jazz lost.

Rooboy | 12:52 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

Get over it!!!!

Bulls won a second three-peat and Jordan was a hero!!!

At least Utah fans can be thankful they were the biggest challenge the Bulls faced.

That was a great game!!!!!

JL | 8:39 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

For goodness sakes!!! Jazz fans will you please get over the Jordan pushoff. Of course he pushed off, he also traveled a time or two during his career, but it was never called either. He was Michael Jordan!!! Superstars get the calls, that's just the way it is...was...and always will be. Karl Malone certainly threw his share of elblows and John Stockton got away with his share of crafty fouls. They were superstars, it comes with the territory!

Stop thinking that somehow the Jazz were going to beat the Bulls in seven games...it wan NEVER going to happen. Magic couldn't beat them, Charles Barkley couldn't do it, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton couldn't do it, Patrick Ewing, Clyde Drexler. The list goes on. The Michael-Scottie Bulls were just plain better at team basketball than the others teams of their generation. Period.

This isn't a knock against all those teams (and there were some good ones), it's just the truth. So stop feeling like you had a chance to win the title! It wasn't going to happen!!! [BTW, the Jazz lost twice as many games in the Finals as they won. So it wasn't quite as close as it seemed.]

Bill | 10:25 a.m. Aug. 21, 2007

Blogs are so ridiculous. They're just entertainment. This whole argument doesn't really have to do with whether the Jazz were cheated or the Bulls were better. It has to do with whether the NBA is fixed or not. Those who believe it's fixed will never be convinced it's not. Likewise, those who think it's legitimate will never think different either. It's a dumb waste of time.

mj | 3:22 p.m. Aug. 21, 2007

I don't fall for the notion that the league is totally fixed, but I do fall for the notion that jordan got preferential treatment when he played - and a lot more than a lot of other stars could ever hope for. He intimidated countless officials and as a result he got away with more than anyone else has ever hoped to. Even Kobe got nailed a few times this year with suspensions for flailing elbows, etc. and I've seen a number of players (stars or not) get called for offensive push-offs that were much less blatant than Jordan's.
My question is this - why do the superstars get the preferential treatment. If they're so good why do they need the help from the officials - from getting phantom calls on their behalf regularly and getting away with all kinds of stuff (fouls, travels, etc.). If they're the best the league has to offer shouldn't they be able to score their points and play great defense without the help of the officials.
It's not that the whole league is fixed per se, it's just that there's a huge inconsistency among the treatment offered to select players. Anyway you look at it, it's wrong - from MJ's pushoff to Baron Davis' cheap shot of Fisher with no suspension. The league needs to realize that a foul is a foul no matter what your name is.

Tyson | 5:35 p.m. Aug. 21, 2007

Dude, Colbinize, are you serious?! You're tired of people saying that Michael Jordan is the greatest player to play the game... well, here's a memo bro... Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play the game of basketball! There is no doubt! Stockton was great, but sorry bro, MJ was the best! You want to look at the numbers, go ahead and look! Look at the little things, things like CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! Compared to Stockton's 0, I think MJ's got him beat!

Chicago's Reality | 8:29 p.m. Aug. 21, 2007

I'm really surprised that no one seems to remember that it was over a year ago that Jeff VanGundy let everyone know that the fix is in. Maybe David Stern didn't want to deal with it then, but he's paying for it now. Also, its interesting to see how Chicago's most recent championship by the same owner (Sox) was mired in just as much controversy.

live in the now | 10:27 a.m. Aug. 22, 2007

live in the now people that was 10 years ago.

Zarathustra | 11:25 a.m. Aug. 22, 2007

Yes, "let's be real," take it easy, it's only a game. If it's become a multi-million dollar business, that's only because you and others make it so. Where would sports and entertainment be if people prioritized differently?

Scooby Steve | 11:12 p.m. Aug. 22, 2007

I understand that Jordan and the Bulls got some preferential treatment, but Stockton and Malone got their fare share of the calls in their prime. Nobody went to the line more than Malone during that era. The Jazz did get hosed on that call, but we can't scream too loudly.

Scooby | 9:25 a.m. Aug. 23, 2007

Scooby name those calls they got in Game 6 because I don't recall ANY. Also, can we get soem more intelligent posts that "Its just a game" and "It was 10 years ago." Playing with your kids is just a game; the NBA is a business and entertainment therefore worth discussion. Ten years ago-what does time have to do with anything? Jazz fans find out that the game could've had some higher powers involved; its not our fault that it came to light now. I think the fact that Jazz fans get fired up 10 years later shows why we are the best fans in the NBA.

Plus JL the Jazz would've probably won Game 7 just for the record because the report at the time was that Pippen's back was so bad that it wouldn't have allowed him to play. I'm not living in the past or whining over what could've been-just reminding you what was.

jake | 10:16 a.m. Aug. 23, 2007

You can see the tape in slow motion from multiple angles at

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jordan+russell

It's clear that Russell got completely turned around and was moving under his own power towards the end line when Jordan pulled up for the shot. Jordan did get a hand on Russell's butt when he pulled up, but to me it looks like incidental contact rather than a push off. I guess you would actually have to be one of them and feel the force to know for sure.

JAZZ HATERS | 5:10 p.m. Aug. 23, 2007

All you jazz haters are really deep down jazz fans. You guys just don't know how to express yourselves. The Jazz are Utah teams if you live in Utah you love the Jazz or should. so jump on the bandwagon that Jordan pushed off. I am not going to google i'm sure Jordan payed off google to put in a fake version of the video. Jazz in 08! Wait we got 1 good gaurd and a handful of nobodys, maybe 09

MJ's Voldemort | 1:34 a.m. Aug. 26, 2007

You sold yourself down the river by accepting the points for that shot in Game 6. You should have given the NBA Finals trophy to little Johnny Stockton and begged his forgiveness. But make sure you don't look him in the eye because you're not worthy of doing that. Also, when you give it to him, make sure you're not in the same room as he is because you're not worthy of being in the same room as him. He is a God in Utah and you, MJ, are a mere mortal. Just hand the trophy to him through the doorway and get away. By the way, I'm wearing a Stockton Jersey right now. I'm wearing it overtop my Boby Hansen jersey.

Anonymous | 5:52 p.m. Sept. 2, 2007

bull dust...im a jazz fan but jordan did not foul russell. people need to forget about that.

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