Deseret News | Reader comments: Ex-ref agrees with Jazz fans: Jordan pushed off

Reader comments
Jazz notes: Ex-ref agrees with Jazz fans: Jordan pushed off

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You gotta love it baby | 1:16 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Ha, now the NBA's own are ratting them out. Star treatment as been a problem for years. Now it is becoming the downfall of the league. It makes things to predictable. Michael and the Bulls were supposed to win and the refs encouraged that with specific calls. This past season, the Spurs were the team to beat from the start and no question they got the benefit of a lot of whistles. No parity = low ratings.

You gotta love it baby | 1:42 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

rvalens2 | 2:46 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

This is one of the reasons I prefer to watch college ball. The refs might on occasion blow a call but I rarely feel like it's a setup.

Maybe now the NBA refs will start calling them as they see them. Superstar or not, a foul should be called a foul. I for one don't want them getting special treatment because of their supposed Superstar status. "Fixed calls" by referees guts the credibility right out of the game. If it gets any worse we might as well watch Professional Wrestling and believe the outcomes aren't rigged.

Comments continue below

Long memory | 3:26 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Folks, the Jordan play was NOT the big ripoff of that game. The perfectly legal trey from Eisley in the first half that was disallowed would have rendered the play irrelevant. I believe that they also allowed a questionable trey from Kerr with the shot clock expiring. There is a six point swing that somehow never comes up in discussing that game. Check the tape and see for yourself!

BB | 6:15 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Maybe Larry can get that trophy out here now.

sean | 8:56 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Cough, um, you mean '96-'97 right Linda? Long Memory is rigth about the Eisley three tha was called off and the Kerr three. I still have nightmares.

Walt | 9:23 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

It was actually an Eisley three, and a Ron Harper runner in the lane that were the incorrect calls in terms of shot clock. 5 points that went the wrong way in a one point game. Not to mention the shove.

Jazzfaninphx | 9:37 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

This is almost as bad as when Jordan faked the flu in 97! Plus before that shot that he made in game 6, I belive Malone was fouled when Jordan (see a pattern here) stripped him in the post. Funny this game is the number 1 finals moment on NBA TV, and was on last night. Lets just say it re-established an old grudge.

yarrlydarb | 10:33 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

I love basketball but the NBA is a bad joke. Anyone who does not believe that superstars don't get preferential treatment in every single game by the refs has to be brain dead. It's Stern's marketing a product and there's no doubt that fans want to see the stars perform, even if it takes special treatment by the refs. It's not going to become like professional wrestling--it already is!

Luk | 10:40 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Greetings from Poland. I watched this game - it was late in the night in our time and I was sure I.m sleeping and it is a nightmar.

Lando | 10:48 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

This is like reliving a bad dream. Every Jazz fan new that Jordan pushed off no doubt about it. The Jazz are always the underdogs. I wish the refs would call it as it is. It was clearly there turn the second time they got beat. they had the best record in the league. Malone the mvp, They led in the series but 3 men screwed it up with favortism.

SMW | 11:21 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

We all know that we won't ever get the calls in Utah. That is why we need to be better than the other team and the refs...To be a fan and not under stand that is just painful.

Sokel | 11:23 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Why not be honest here? The win by the Bulls should
come with an asterisk..or the Jazz should be named co
champions. The Jazz had the better team and won.
They are the Al Gore of the NBA, the real winners.

Roy in Augusta | 11:23 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

I agree with almost ALL 8 comments on this issue. What I would add (that I've shared with the NBA & D. Stern) is that if it were not for Jerry Sloan, Stockton & Malone over the years, I would have given up on the NBA years ago.
I've been an NBA fan for years (since before I had season tickets the two years the Sonics played the Bullets for the Championship). I remember Rick Welts as a young "go fer" type for the Sonics.
Question for D. Stern & the owners: Is the NBA a sports organization (with inflexible rules & regulations, including high value on "sportsmanship") . . . or is it an entertainment organization (with the accompanying flexibility/leeway to be like Jerry Springer, "pro wrestling", et al)?
Personally, I remember days of when a person was a truly gifted athlete WHEN they were able to COMPETE within the RULES THAT APPLIED TO EVERYONE from "jumpball to the horn".
Unless it gets back (more) to the way the game was intended - I'm "leaving" when Jerry Sloan, Popovich & Duncan leave.
P.S. I'm glad I'm not the only one that remembers the "push-off". Think about this - add up both teams total points for the championship play-offs and compare "who won" that way.

TD | 11:26 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

The Eisley 3 not counting was the worst play of the game; followed by Harper shot counting as the shot clock went down, definatly costed us Malone and Stockton a title. I was physically sick for a week after that game.

PLAQ SHAQ | 11:39 a.m. Aug. 18, 2007

That was our year!!! That one great memory that would have made me happy for the rest of my life.

1997 -1998 UTAH JAZZ WORLD CHAMPIONS-

But the refs tooks care of that, their bads calls took that wonderful thing that should have been and gave it away!

It really is a shame.

Riles | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

To take away Eisley's 3 was flat out criminal. You always knew that stars would get "star treatment", but it's not as if we didn't have 2 great ones here too. It's about the size of the market and sales of merchandise. When was the last time a small market team locked down a Finals?

SMW | 12:31 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

We have a contender. The Jazz just need to be better than the other teams and the refs!

Marv | 2:50 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

I completely agree with the point that it was a push-off, but the steal that preceeded it was great.
You won't find a bigger Stock/Sloan/Malone/Jazz fan, but please remember. There were more than a few calls that went the Jazz way because Malone and Stockton were All-Stars - and we all agreed with those. So when it comes to favoritism, just be careful for what you wish for, you just might get it.
Also Riles, I think San Antonio is considered a small market team, and they've seen to have done okay.

crybabies | 3:16 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

I can't believe Jazz fans are still bent about this. Get over it! It's done and over with. Players push off all the time. It's part of the game.

BigGameJames | 4:11 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

What it came down to was that the Jazz just did not have the heart to win that series. They ran into a better team. The Jazz were good but not great. Karl Malone was not half the player of JOrdan or Pippen for that matter. And don't tell me that the Jazz were ripped on calls; at the time they were one of the teams in the NBA known for cheap shots and cheap fouls.

JAL | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

WHO CARES !!!!

Dream on guys | 4:38 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

You guys are too funny. Malone and Stockton were the biggest cheats and cheap shot artist in NBA history. As far as the push, dream on guys. Watch the tape. You're telling me Jordan's going push 245 pound Russ to the ground with his off hand as he's stopping to pull up? Get real. I'm not even a Bulls fan and I don't buy it. He clearly moves he hand past Russ as Russ gets broken down. I know Jordan got a lot of calls but there was nothing there.

Various angles | 5:30 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

From one angle I was sure Jordan pushed off terribly.

From another angle it wasn't a push off. At least not enough for an NBA foul.

Let's be honest. basketball without consistent called fouls, following the rules, makes it a joke.

I see highlights all the time where the guy either travels or switches pivot feet or something else and then slams it.

It is more for "entertainment" then pure sports anymore.

Refs suck | 5:53 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

The Jordan call, could have gone either way, you are not allowed to make space between yourself and a defender by purposely sticking your hand out and helping him along. It was a foul no doubt, but it happens all the time, Jordan gets that call 99 times out of a hundred no matter whot he defender is. Eisley on the other hand was screwed plain and simple, there was no doubt that his 3 was good. We were also fractions and I mean fractions of an inch from stockton hitting another miraculous game winning 3 at the end, that shot looked so good that I was already celebrating when it came down just short. It was close, but Jazz fans, we are never going to get the benefit of the doubt on bad calls, this year against San Antonio, another prime example.

Jazz fan/Jordan fan | 6:30 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

I just want to point out the fact that had the Bulls lost that game that Jordan pushed off, the Jazz would have been destroyed the next game and Jordan would have ripped their hearts out even worse. Jordan was so competitive and thrives on pressure that he would have done everything in his power to make sure the Bulls won the next game. It is a blessing for the Jazz that the refs didn't make that call. This is just an opinion of a long time Jazz fan and Jordan fan. :)

Mike | 8:32 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Actually, most of the Bull's team, especially Jordan and Pippen, said that if they had not won that game, they don't think that they would have been able to win the next game, eventhough it was in Chicago. Pippen got the flu, and he's even said that he would have still played because he's a huge competitor, but he would have been extremely limited. Jordan wouldn't have been able to beat the Jazz by himself. I know he is amazing, but his supporting cast sure helped out a ton. The Jazz got robbed that year, but remember star treatement went both ways. Teams always complained about Stockton and Malone getting the calls, and it even happens now. Boozer and Williams got a little bit last year, and you can bet that they will get their fair share of calls next year, too.

Jazz Fan/Not Jordan Fan | 8:36 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

Jazz Fan/Jordan Fan: You must have a time machine in order to predict something that did not happen. If you are a Jazz Fan how can you say it is a blessing. Just pure crap

Cant doubt the nay sayers | 8:52 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

This just points out the obvious joke the nba has become. David Stern never wanted the jazz to win that game, Jordan pushed off and the jazz losing was the result. Its easy to say that jordan would have destroyed the jazz in game 7, but you cant underestimate momentum, and thanks to a bad call I guess we will never know. It is in the best interest of the league to not see small market teams win the finals. Small Market= less people. Less people= less fans watching. less fans watching = less money. Period

Utah will never win the finals and neither will any other small market team. and you cant use San Antonio, they may be in a small market city, but they are in a huge market State

yarrlydarb | 11:23 p.m. Aug. 18, 2007

The NBA is a bad joke, just like I said earlier today. The officiating in the league is the worst there is in all of true sport. Now we hear on the late news tonight that the "rogue" ref is going to implicate as many as 20 NBA officials. I have my personal opinion who the 20 will be because I witnessed so many bad calls, blatantly bad calls, that I am not in the least surprised. What's more surprising is that it's not 40 that will be implicated!

Watching in Europe | 12:02 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

During the Jordan era I would faithfully watch as many games as possible even though it was in the middle of the night. However, after watching call after call being missed or overlooked, plus all the acting (this goes for ALL the players) I gave up.

I love the game, when the rules are followed. Basketball is a TEAM sport and their are few that realize that (Sloan being one of the few). I now will only check to see how Sloan is doing and that's it. No more NBA for me. By the way, with all the miracles that Sloan has performed why hasn't he won coach of the year? Certainly he will reach Sainthood!

JazzFanJeff | 1:43 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

There is no conspiracy, Dick Beveta (ref who missed the Eisley call) made a bad call, it was human error, nothing more and nothing less. The reason big market teams perform better is due to having more resources, ie, more cash. Regarding bad luck or whatever, the bad luck is that as great as Malone and Stockton were, Jordan was simply the best player of all time, perhaps the most dominating player in any sport.

sad commentary | 6:57 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

Fat couch potatoes getting their thrills by watching grown men throw a ball at a hoop! Sad commentary!

jazzman | 8:45 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

I knew it long time ago. Corruption is the same anywhere. I just hate it when US 'respectable' citizens point somewhere else with their dirty fingers. I'm Mexican and I love basketball, besides that I will always remain a true fan of that great Utah Jazz team. I know Malone, Stockton, Russell, Eisley should have gotten the ring that memorable year. Those who plot for that not to happen will always keep it in their conscience... if they have one.

JazzFann | 10:38 a.m. Aug. 19, 2007

The rest of the country hates Utah. Refs will always give the other teams the breaks either on purpose or subconciously. I am not from Utah but have always been a Jazz fan. I have lived in Colorado, Wyoming and Idaho and always I here people badmothing Utah. People from the East think Utah is populated by gun toting polygamist pedophiles. Combine the perceptions with the small market and were lucky we don't have all of the calls go against us. During the first two games of the San Antonio series, we couldn't buy a call!

J-Bear | 6:16 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

I love it how we are in a society where we give free meals to NBA players that have enough money to pay for all the patrons in the restaurant. That's just as stupid as KSL giving it's guests on SportsBeat a free dinner at Ruby River Steakhouse and a free Ogio bag.

Cry Baby | 7:24 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

Waaaaaaa. The Jazz lost. They wouldn't have won anyway. Get over it already.

Bill Hull | 8:31 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

Are we STILL whining about that?

9YRSL8TR | 10:33 p.m. Aug. 19, 2007

Get over it, already.

no whiners here | 12:44 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

It's interesting to hear all the comments from the Bulls fan's that Jazz fans should just get over it. Your lack of empathy is only because you were on the updside of the outcome of that game. Something tells me that you turn the tables and suddenly the direction of the whinning changes too. You can't deny that rookies get picked on and the big stars get the calls. NBA refereeing is finally getting the wake up call it has so desperately needed and with a little hope, things will start to improve.

Vishai | 4:46 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Are you guys serious? Spurs have a smaller market than we do in Salt Lake. Eisley's three and Harper's three were in a different game of the series when Jordan pushed off--and Russell had no body control anyway...Maybe if the guy didn't go twenty feet into the crowd after every running layup a ref would have seen it as a foul instead of a normal play...Blame the front office had they given the Jazz a little bit more to work with instead of hoping Shandon and Bryon would be enough we'd have pulled out a title

They won the game no asterisk...they won the title and broke our hearts, no asterisk...Enjoy dwill and th present cause he'll be gone soon enough and then we can whine about something new

not a conspiracy, but . . . | 6:37 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Some other things to think about . . #1 Steve Kerr admitted about a year ago that there was no way they would have won game 7 because there was NO gas in the tank for any of the Bulls after that game. #2 I seem to remember Mr. Jordan crying a LOT louder 7 games earlier about a push-off by Reggie Miller - doesn't matter to him when it goes his way. #3 The 3 pointers that did and didn't count were replayed several times and were not questionable, they were just horrible calls. #4 Why does that game come up so often in the media STILL????

12 to 32 | 7:18 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Its nice to have someone who worked for the NBA finally tell the truth. I've been spouting off for years about the missed Eisley three and the Harper shot that should not have counted. I don't think I've seen an NBA game since with two blown shot clock calls. Anyone can get on here and say us Jazz fans are whiners, but in reality this about Karl and John, and getting what they deserved. Its also an interesting side note that the Jazz did not lose a game Dick Bevetta reffed at the DC for about 6 years after his no call.

karl hater | 9:25 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Karl Malone didnï¿½t 'deserve' a championship. And when he couldnï¿½t 'win' one, he tried to buy one by going to the lakers. He does not care about the jazz, never did, and never will. he only cares about karl. there is no way you can say he 'deserves' a championship. jordan didnï¿½t push-his arm flopped out there trying to stop a full head of steam. russells arms did the same thing, just went the other way. jordan is the best player ever and russell had no prayer of stopping him. they say all the time, especially in the close games, to let the players decide. that will be a no call-regardless of the player. karl had plenty of those in his days. problem is he just can't finish. the jazz were great that year, i will give you that, but you lost to the best. the game was decided by the players, and malone never had what it took to finish, especially close games. he is gone, and i only hope we can forget him. he is a worthless selfish sellout, and he lost. that play did not decide the game. neither did the shot clock calls. It was the famous jazz front office, surrounding john and karl with nothing. same thing every year. champions are not made by one shot in one game. they are assembled, groomed, and work together all year. the jazz dont do enough to get a good team together, and therefore will never get there. forget about 'the shot'. the bulls pulled out all the stops all year long, and did what it took to surround two of the best players ever with a credible supporting cast. they were the best team all along, and got what they 'deserved'. game over.

Karl Hater-Go back to Chicago | 10:25 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Yeah you got to hate a guy that wins two MVP's, is second in the NBA all-time in scoring, and came to work everyday. Name me a better power forward. Buy a championship? We always complain that its all about the money and then when an athlete takes a significant pay cut to pursue a championship we criticize that. John Elway gave up the bulk of his salary the two years they won the Super Bowl- guess he was just "buying a championship." To say that Jordan did not push off makes me wonder about your eye sight. Even Jordan has joked with Russell that he pushed off. Get off Karl's back- he was the franchise. Pardon us Jazz fans for beign upset that an opportunity to win a championship was taken away-and this isn't the same old rhetoric-an actual former NBA offical agrees with us. Next you will tell me Eisley's three shouldn't have counted, Harper's shot did get off. Also, the Jazz aren't doing enough to build a contender? After next summer they will have four players with $66 million dollar contracts or more. Everyone with a pulse agrees the Jazz have one of the best young teams in the NBA. Lay off Karl, get a grip, and go get some glasses.

Tyson | 10:45 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Ya know, I like this story, and I think it's really interesting, but ya know what, it was nearly 10 years ago! We need to get over the fact that we are all bitter about Jordan hittin that shot! But he is the greatest player to ever play the game, and he got away with murder! There's nothing we can do but get over it! We'll win a championship one day!! June 2008 baby!!

True Fans | 10:57 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

You talk to any long time season ticket holders and they haven't gotten over "the shot." Thats the beauty of sports- the ups and the downs. I will never forget where I was when John sent us to the Finals, just like I will never forget D-Fish comming into that game vs GS. Fans relish the good, mourn the bad, and come back each year for more.

Aaron | 11:14 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Karl-hater, I find much to admire in Malone, but you're right that he was really in it for himself. His career is no less great for not winning one, but I for one was happy that he didn't succeed with the Lakers. And I wish that Gary Payton hadn't succeeded. I understand that a championship is the ultimate thing, but every has-been these days goes off in pursuit of one when his best days are behind him, and it's really tiresome. A lot of people jeering at it would do the same thing, but ultimately it's all for selfish pride.

Now, on the subject of the pushoff, I agree with Tyson, it was nine years ago. But any of you who deny it happened, the tapes (and comments from Jordan himself) disagree with you.

Tim Duncan | 11:50 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

Dear Karl Hater-Go back to Chicago,

You asked the question,"Name me a better power forward" [the Karl Malone]....Have you ever heard about the Power forward in San Antonio by the name of Tim Duncan? Although, I am not a fan of Tim Duncan and I have cheered for Karl Malone over the years I would have to say that Tim Duncan is a better player!

PS....Jordan won 6 titles so quit whining, The Jazz should have never put themselves in a situation to lose by a missed call.

Jordan Forever | 11:58 a.m. Aug. 20, 2007

I can't believe the Deseretnews would print this story. Jazz fans are ridiculous and dwelling on the past is why this franchise will never win an NBA championship even with the talented group of players that they currently have. LET IT GO

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