Deseret News | Reader comments: Birth defect is plaguing children in FLDS towns

Reader comments
Birth defect is plaguing children in FLDS towns

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Joker | 1:54 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008

They should just let them die out. Removing yourself from the genepool is a good thing if you think that marrying your niece or aunt is ok. Having children with them is a more serious matter, something that is outlawed and should not have endured for this long. The same goes for polygamy. It is not your religious right to break laws, the laws against inbreeding are there for the good of your children and the people they marry. If it was someones religious right to break laws then all of the terrorists who blew up the Twin Towers were just expressing their religious freedoms. Someone needs to stop this before it escalates even further.

Gma | 3:04 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Why don't they do vasectomies on all the males? Or sterilize the females. I realize that they are brainwashed in the two communities, but there has to be someone that can stop this inhumane practice. The taxpayers of Utah and Arizona are footing the bills for the medical care, plus the welfare that they are receiving to survive. One man in the community, can father over 100 children, and some do. I am very appalled by what I read of the two communities and Warren Jeffs.

Brother Murphy | 5:21 p.m. March 16, 2008

People living by a Celestial law . . . raising Celestial children. God blesses people with children. He trust his special children to special parents. Keep up the good work.

Comments continue below

huh? | 8:18 p.m. April 5, 2008

Huh? "he trusts special children with special parents"??? Is it also special that the fathers rape there daughters? This has nothing to do with god and is just sick.

I grew up in an abusive religion called the Christian Missionary Alliance. It wasn't nearly as bad as what these the Later Day Saints kids are going through but it still gives me nightmares sometimes. I can only imagine what these little girls go through.

Sterilization | 12:49 a.m. April 10, 2008

We could sterilize all of them. While we're at it, we could sterilize everyone who has more than 2 kids, to cut down on the exploding population. And then let's sterilize everyone who is disabled or has a mental illness, in case they pass on their traits to children who would be a burden on society. I'm sure we could think of lots of reasons to sterilize people if we really tried. The only problem with this approach is a silly little thing called CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

This is an incredibly sad situation, and government needs to intervene to protect current and future victims. However, we need to be careful how we respond to cases like this, to make sure we protect victims while respecting the rights of all. Otherwise, we may end up making rules that will come back to bite us in the behind. Some of you who are quick to take away someone else's rights would have a coronary if anyone ever tried to deny your rights in the same way.

Sub-Odeon | 6:18 a.m. April 10, 2008

The FLDS lost their way. And now the children are paying the price. There is a reason polygamy was abandoned by the Saints in the 19th century, and the continued FLDS practice of forcibly marrying underaged girls to their close male relatives is a mockery of the true LDS gospel.

If the FLDS has abstained from underaged marriage, and had they managed to bring in a sufficiently diverse (ergo, genetically diverse) number of adult females, it would be much harder to argue that their religious choice does anyone any harm.

But the damage has been done, and the more it is revealed to the general public, the more clear it becomes that the FLDS have failed to grasp the spirit of doctrine, in addition to the letter of doctrine, and that this failure will only continue to bring sorrow and pain to themselves, and their offspring.

seen them | 7:26 a.m. April 10, 2008

First of all Huh? These are not LDS children. They are not connected to the LDS church whatsoever.

Second, since I work at the hospital here in ST. George, I have seen some of these children first hand. It is a terrible disease. These children have no real life to speak of. They are prone to other illnesses like pnuemonia and require constant care. I actually pity these children. There are reasons close relatives should not marry. Get a clue people

Alberta Rose | 7:59 a.m. April 10, 2008

This syndrome is also a problem among Hutterite children in Alberta. The Hutterites are a comunnal people who are followers of Jacob Hutter, a German annabaptist sect. They also live in colonies where everyone is related. They do not marry outside their religious group.

Reader | 8:28 a.m. April 10, 2008

Where are all the FLDS defenders, I read on the other posts? Ignoring this one?

Tanner | 8:43 a.m. April 10, 2008

Polygamy is wrong! Nothing good has ever come from this practice. Only pain! I do not believe in anyway that it was ever a revelation from God, perhaps though the devil. Now we can all see how miserably both woman and children have suffered the fate of this vile practice, because of a handful of over sexed males who think they can get away with this insanity in the name of God.

seen them | 8:50 a.m. April 10, 2008

I think it is rather hard to defend something that is so directly linked to the practice on inbreeding.

Not LDS? | 8:57 a.m. April 10, 2008

The LDS church didnt abandon polygamy, they were forced to stop or they couldnt become a state. The LDS church still believes in polygamy, they just dont practice it because its against the laws of the land. After all, polygamy, according to LDS belief, is the higher law.

AZ Phunguy | 8:59 a.m. April 10, 2008

Jeffs is a "fugitive" polygamist leader? I was sure he was in custody.

Simple Genetics | 9:23 a.m. April 10, 2008

An estimated 80% of all of the marriages in history are said to have been first cousin or closer. As a geneticist Iï¿½ll tell you that the probability of a severe birth defect among non-related individuals is 2-3%. The probability for related individuals is 3-4%, not a whole lot higher. This particular genetic defect is persistent among the FLDS because somebody who is a carrier of the recessive gene has had it expressed to the degree that it is surfacing more and more in the community. This would be the case in any small community, related or not.

Yeah, Right | 9:55 a.m. April 10, 2008

"An estimated 80% of all of the marriages in history are said to have been first cousin or closer."

Whose estimate, yours? How was this "fact" determined?

Nothing good from Polygamy? | 10:12 a.m. April 10, 2008

To Tanner: Have you ever read the Bible? Some of the most revered prophets by Christians were polygamists. Have you ever heard of Jacob? Moses? Abraham? They all had multiple wives. To say nothing good has come from polygamy is using a pretty broad stroke.

RE: Not LDS? | 10:15 a.m. April 10, 2008

Where do you get your facts? You should really stop using Wikipedia as your only source of information. You are wrong both about the church being forced to stop polygamy and about the church believing that polygamy is the higher law. Both of these items are simply not true.

Corban | 10:22 a.m. April 10, 2008

These people ARE ABSOLUTELY connected to the LDS Church!

They have ancestors more directly than most LDS Church members, going back to the early "Brethren" who were "commanded" to practice polygamy along with Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others.

Get your facts straight!

These are DEFINITELY an offshoot of the LDS Church, genetically as well as religiously!

Wow | 10:39 a.m. April 10, 2008

Why have the police been ignoring this for so long? Everyone knows these people have been blatantly breaking the law for years. Are they so powerful that they're above the law?

RE: Not LDS? | 11:09 a.m. April 10, 2008

I think you meant your title to say, "I'm Not LDS" because you obviously have never been to an LDS church meeting in your life. I've been a member for 30 years and I've ALWAYS been taught that anyone who practices or practiced polygamy after the church disbanded it has been or will be excommunicated. Besides the regular church meetings, our highest leaders have continued to teach that polygamy is wrong during the semi-annual general conferences.

Where's your source?

RE: RE: Not LDS? | 11:45 a.m. April 10, 2008

I grew up in the church and served a mission. I know what I am talking about. Polygamy is the higher (Celestial) law. Why do you think they practiced it to begin with? Was it just a mistake? Its not practiced now because its against the law. Do a little research.

Angels among us | 12:08 p.m. April 10, 2008

From an LDS perspective, I have often heard and de believe that "special" children are angels sent here to protect us. They are fast-tracked to the celestial kingdom, if you will. Don't be surprised if these angels in the FLDS community may end up bringing salvation to their members.

ill | 12:14 p.m. April 10, 2008

Ask any woman if she would like to have more than one husband -No way she'll say. This is bad news and should have been dealt with years ago. Perhaps by listening to a higher voice they decided to move to Texas and then the legal authorities down there got the word from God to go in and bust up this bunch disgusting adult men.

My great grandfather had 4 wives and my husband's grandfather had 2 wives, but we both think in today's world it is nuts. We both stopped going to church years and years ago but not because of Polygamy, we just decided long before we know each other that wasn't of interest to us.

Jeff | 12:25 p.m. April 10, 2008

I wonder why so many comments are coming on this article two years after the publication of this article. Was it a slow news day for the Deseret News to republish, or repost, this article 26 months after the original publication date.

Very restricted gene pool. | 12:29 p.m. April 10, 2008

My first husband died of a genetic recessive disease, we had one child, that was all we got, but wanted more. With this disease 1 in 40,000 are carriers of it, I would have had to also be a carrier, so the chances were half for her to get the disease 1 in 20,000. I do not know what the chances are for this disease in this small community, of where there are some of the 6,000-10,000 still living. But if there are 20 known cases and both parents had to be carriers, I think that makes it about a chance of 1 in 200 or 250, pretty low numbers for such a debilitating disease. The disease my husband had ended his life at the age of 37. I also dealt with a couple of the families with these children, one being about 16, that was 7 years ago, all the medical equipment they received was covered by medicaid. I have not heard if any of the children in Texas had this disease, I have been wondering if they only took the "elite" to Texas.

Re: Jeff | 12:59 p.m. April 10, 2008

Very simple:

Most comments are made on articles people are currently reading. Someone remembered the article from two years ago, looked it up, posted a comment about it, and, more people starting reading the article. Soon the article started appearing in the "Most Popular" articles list and even more people started reading and commenting on it.

The DMN didn't have to republish or repost the article.

Thank you DMN for providing an archive a past articles!

Anonymous | 1:13 p.m. April 10, 2008

Ugh!!! What more can the LDS church and it's members say about not practicing polygamy before people actually believe that they really don't practice it, and that we are not connected to the FLDS and what used to be the RLDS. There are many religions that have off-shoots from the original one and they practice different things as well, they choose to practice what they want and disregard what they don't want. Get Over It!!

FLDS vs. LDS | 2:14 p.m. April 10, 2008

FLDS is an offshoot of the LDS church with the divisive point being the practice of polygamy. There are obviously some connections today (temples, scriptures, history, etc...) but the same could be said for many religious groups. Jews and Christians have a similar history, scriptures, etc...with the big dividing point being Jesus Christ. Muslims also beleive in Adam, Abraham, etc...from the Old Testament but Islam of today is quite different from Judaism. If you take a step back, all major world religions are connected at the roots and each branched off at some point from the other. However, this happened thousands of years ago and FLDS and LDS divide has only been within the past 100 years. My point is that blaming the LDS church for what goes on in FLDS santuaries is shortsided and is similar to blaming catholics for all protestestants (lutherans, methodists, baptists, etc...).

RP | 3:05 p.m. April 10, 2008

Deseret News:
I suggest treating verbage regarding people with disabilities with a little more care. Please keep in mind you are talking about real people. "Intellectual Disability" is much better than "retarded." Also, instead of saying "Fumarase child," it is more respectful to refer to the person first. "Child with Fumarase syndrome" for example. This allows people to better understand that the child is first and foremost a person, and they happen to have a disability.

RE: RE: RE: Not LDS? | 3:27 p.m. April 10, 2008

Well, dude, you are the one who is wrong, and has apparently come up with some very inacturate "sources" for your "research." It is not the "higher law." In fact, we just recently had that Sunday School lesson... I think you maybe should go back and read those scriptures and the Gospel Doctrine handbook. It is clearly stated by the Lord himself that it is "abominable" in His sight and is only to be used in extremely unusual circumstances, at His request. So how is it the "higher law" if it's "abominable" in His sight???? You are wrong dude!

Rich | 4:14 p.m. April 10, 2008

To Simple Genetics: The incidence of some genetic birth defects among Jews due to interbreeding are 20 to 200 times the rate among non-Jews. Some simple math on this particular Fumarase Deficiency is demonstrative. If only 13 cases of this disease were known in the world until 1988, that would indicate an extremely low incidence among the general populace. Even assuming that none of the cases before 20 years ago was among the polygamists and assuming that scientists knew of only 10% of the victims of this disorder, that would place the incidence of the disease at no more than 1 per 37 million people. Let's now assume there are 100,000 polygamists rather than the much lower estimates commonly given today and that the 20 cases of Fumarese Deficiency represent 100% of the cases present among the polygamists, that would mean the incidence is about 1 in 5,000. That means at the very least that a polygamist's child is more than 7,000 times as likely to get this one particular genetic disease. It stands to reason that interbreeding polygamists would have a far higher incidence of other genetic disorders as well.

Mormon finger pointers | 4:30 p.m. April 10, 2008

Why does everyone in the LDS church point fingers when you do something wrong at another religions constantly; WELL THE JEWS DID THIS, THE BAPTIST DO THAT! THE J-DUBS DO IT THIS WAY. THE CATHOLICS HAVE DONE WORSE! The Mormons are constantly pointing their fingers at other religions who do something comparisons to themselves that was wrong. You guys need to take a deep look into the nearest mirror. You and your judgmental, arrogant, backbiting behavior is going to put you all in hell soon or later. Is this part of your birth defect or what? You guys all believe in polygamy. So go point the finger for once and for all in your own faces!

Re: Brother Murphy | 5:21 p.m | 4:39 p.m. April 10, 2008

"People living by a Celestial law . . . raising Celestial children"

Maybe they should practice this law in the "Celestial Kingdom". Not here on Earth.

Apparently you have two copies of that same recessive gene too!

Hagar's Legacy | 5:31 p.m. April 10, 2008

Remember Abraham? As I recall the story, when Sarah failed to conceive a child she gave her maidservant Hagar to Abraham for that purpose. Thus Ishmael arrived on the scene. Then, surprise, Sarah was able to deliver Isaac. A squabble ensued and Ishmael was ousted. If you will turn on the evening news, I'm sure that there will be at least one story confirming that the fight is still going on 5000 years later. Isn't that proof enough that polygamy just doesn't work?

Get a real life | 5:52 p.m. April 10, 2008

You all speak gibberish! You polygamist are very sick people. You need mental help!

snickerdoodle | 6:34 p.m. April 10, 2008

well what a suprise.

WOW | 7:15 p.m. April 10, 2008

This has nothing to do with polygamy its got everything to do with pedophilia and the abuse of women and children. PERIOD>

Ken Goddard | 7:47 p.m. April 10, 2008

Give the News credit for reporting on this dirty little secret. I had heard or read about this problem but did not realize how extensive it was.

Matt Connelly | 7:56 p.m. April 10, 2008

I'm troubled by the disrespectful comments toward polygamists I see on this website. God teaches us to love all people. For those of us who are LDS, we should have an extra degree of compassion for these good people. After all, they come from us. They come from the same heritage we do. Like it or not plural marriage used to be a tenet of the mainstream LDS Church. Thus we should have an extra degree of empathy for these people who continue the practice.

Of course I do not condone illegal abuse under any circumstance, but I'd guess that the vast majority of polygamists live honorable lives. So let us embrace these people, show them compassion, and treat them as children of God who for whatever reason believe differently than we do.

Gordon | 8:04 p.m. April 10, 2008

I am always amazed at how much emotion and how little rational thought appears in many of these commentaries. A few observations:

I took an anthropology class from a professor who was an atheist, and in particular hated Mormons. Nevertheless, he was honest enough in cultural anthropological discussions to point out that throughout history over 80% of ALL cultures were polygamist --as the result of caring for women who survived warfare, as a product of wealth or status, disproportionate female numbers, etc.

What about such people as the Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Polynesians, Africans, American Indians, pre-Roman Europeans? All were polygamists. Monogamy and celibacy were pagan Roman practices that were imposed on the world via the Roman Catholic church.

All those railing against polygamy, if they traced their roots back far enough, would find that their ancestors came from polygamist cultures.

The issue here is not polygamy, but inter-marriage and in this case, the polygamy simply resulted in the real problem, a lack of genetic diversity through intermarriage.

Anonymous | 9:46 p.m. April 10, 2008

Well, DUH!!

Rick | 10:43 p.m. April 10, 2008

I don't care about the Polygamy or the incest
as long as they are adults
and it is consensual.
what does bother me is they
are getting welfare, if
we were to end the welfare
to the whole FLDS comunity
maybe they would change
there ways.

Janey | 12:31 a.m. April 11, 2008

Well, geez, Matt. We didn't all come from just polygamists. It started with Adam and Eve. But, according to your reasoning, we should "love" and "embrace" everyone. So, I will now run up to the first pedophile I see and give him a big hug. I hope I can find a list of those who are into child pornography so I can E-mail my love to them. Would it not just be wonderful if a child-sex offender moved in next door so my children and I could take over some cookies? Thanks for your enlightenment.

Fred | 3:30 a.m. April 11, 2008

I feel very sorry for these children and those who have to take care of them. That said, the FLDS broke off from the main body of the church about a century ago, maybe less. They certainly have nothing whatsoever to do with the modern LDS church. The problem isn't polygamy. Frankly, what consenting, non-related adults do in their bedroom is none of my business. However, anyone who has the time for more than one partner, be they polygamists, swingers, or cheaters, really needs a hobby because they clearly have too much time on their hands. The problem is abuse and inbreeding, and this is what led to Warren Jeffs being placed, rightfully, on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List.

Re: Brother Murphy | 4:48 a.m. April 11, 2008

Please, don't blame your ignorance on God. Come out of your spiritual slumber already.

massgirl | 6:43 a.m. April 11, 2008

educate me. Am I understanding this that they collect WELFARE? Are MY tax dollars paying for this??!!

sheiladdoe | 7:30 a.m. April 11, 2008

If polygamy is against the law, how then are they legally able to draw welfare?

Just Pondering | 7:49 a.m. April 11, 2008

Massgirl, you didn't think they were being supported by fast offerings and tithing, did you?

There's no industry in Hilldale/Colorado City. and I'm betting none in the Texas community. They don't speak with outsiders, and none of the women work outside the home. What other way do they have to support huge families, with disabled children, except that you and I pay for it with tax dollars. That's what got Tom Green in trouble - public aid fraud. Of course they collect welfare!

Eurocoug | 8:01 a.m. April 11, 2008

massgirl - Unfortunately you are correct. There are quite a bit of articles available on the internet, which explain how this works. Since these marriages are not legal, the women are able to claim to be single mothers to NUMEROUS children and get quite a lot of welfare. I won't acuse them of getting rich off it, but many of the articles say they are.

I find it interesting and very enlightening that in this way they show their true colors. They don't respect the government and claim not to be bound by the same laws as everyone else, but they are more than willing to 'play the system' when it is to their advantage.

Personally I view this as an extreme level of hypocrisy. That's just me though.

massgirl | 8:21 a.m. April 11, 2008

stop the weldare--i would think this is within the law if you do not chose to educate your children properly-no access to books or even a library never mind state testing for school aged children. The welfare cycle will never end without an education to support yourself.

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