Perhaps bringing some of his experience as a professional basketball referee to bear, Clark several times during the meeting stopped the discussion to remind the group that the clock is ticking and to keep attention on "the sense of urgency" of the job before them.

He also strongly advised the group of stakeholders in attendance to get their heads in the game.

"The first question I ask you is, if we expect the system to change, what is it you're willing to give up?" Clark said, noting that too often when he asks industry representatives that question he's told what is wrong with everybody else. "If you are unwilling to change, I hope this is your last meeting. I will uninvite you. If you stay I will take that as a willingness to change."

Killpack said he the process will be open to public input, will be fair and must be fair on the input side as well.

Many people keep comparing health-care insurance with automobile insurance, which the state mandates and could ultimately mandate for health insurance if a consumer/market-driven approach isn't successful.

"Let's compare apples to apples in that discussion," Killpack said, noting that a driver after a rollover accident can't just stop by a local body shop and expect it to be fixed. "If you haven't sufficiently insured yourself, you have a different responsibility."

"Everybody's ox is going to get gored," said task force member Sen. Greg Bell, R-Fruit Heights. "I'm not really interested in cry babies. I don't want conversations in the hall where people are telling me why this is stupid or that is stupid."

John T. Nielsen, special health-care adviser to Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr., who did not attend on doctor's orders following shoulder repair surgery on Wednesday, has said the system is fundamentally flawed and therefore needs fundamental change.

"When someone is sick and is considered uninsurable by commercial companies, this has to change," Nielsen said.

Task force members took no action Thursday but must develop a reform plan by the end of November and scheduled meetings each month except July.

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E-mail: jthalman@desnews.com