If immigration attorney Barbara Szweda could shape immigration policy, she'd make more visas available so immigrants wouldn't come here illegally.

Wally McCormick, who heads the Constitution Coalition, said immigration should be stopped until backlogs can be cleared up and the situation assessed.

Dave Hoza would like to see people identified as they cross the border. Phil Morgan believes it's essential to make sure immigration levels don't exceed the nation's finite resources, such as water. Antonella Kelly suggested companies should pay tax penalties if they export jobs overseas.

Those were just a few of the ideas discussed Saturday by 12 members of the Citizens Council on Immigration — an experiment in democracy originated by Westminster College philosophy professor Jeffrey Nielsen, who served as moderator.

The meeting was the council's third, bringing together members of two prior groups — one of immigrants and refugees, the other of established citizens — who had learned about civics and democracy. Most of those present Saturday were from the established citizens' group.

The council's fourth meeting will be a public forum, kicking off the city's first Democracy Week, at 3 p.m. on Sept. 2 at the Salt Lake Library Auditorium. The public will be allowed to comment and hear from council members on immigration and the council's discussion process. A report on the discussion also will be published.

Saturday's discussion was spirited at times as the diverse group talked about future immigration policy and developing the economies of the nations immigrants leave behind. Time ran out before a third topic — diplomacy — could be discussed.

Eli Cawley, who heads the Utah Minuteman Project, suggested that instead of adding more visas, employers should improve wages.

"The bottom line is they need cheap workers," Cawley said.

Szweda replied, "If you opened it up, they'd have to pay minimum wage or better."

Suzanne Miles expressed frustration at the situation, saying "the lawmakers making these decisions have an absolute vested interest in riding on the backs of the impoverished."

While the group disagreed on some issues, members did reach a majority agreement on others and found consensus on one — rethinking the North American and Central American free trade agreements. Szweda said those agreements "drove people out of rural areas" and "didn't work."

Nielsen said the process was a good pilot program. He'd like to get closer to his ideal in the future by randomly selecting participants, training them on dialogue skills and then giving them a topic for discussion. The current council knew the topic in advance and was not randomly selected.

"I'm most happy that we were able to have a dialogue of people from different backgrounds and beliefs," he said. "The process is just as important as the outcome."

After the four-hour discussion, some expressed disappointment that the group opted against discussing enforcing current immigration laws.

"Until we enforce our laws, this is not going to do anything," Morgan said. "Our leaders don't represent us."

Veronica Flores, a naturalized citizen from El Salvador, said the majority of the group chose the topics that are "causing the problems."

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E-mail: dbulkeley@desnews.com