Who won? Depends on your party

Based on collegiate debating standards, Sen. John Kerry won Thursday night's debate, a local debate expert says.

From a more partisan viewpoint, however, the winner was more clearly defined by viewers as whichever candidate they supported before the debate started.

Utah Republicans were pleased that President Bush continued his strong reasoning for the Iraq war and emphasized the need for continued strikes against terrorists. The Democrats backing Kerry applauded his extensive knowledge of all of the issues and his ability to communicate them to voters.

While the messages of both Bush and Kerry, D-Mass., did not stray from their oft-repeated positions, Dan Lair, University of Utah director of forensics, said the performance of the Democratic challenger was unexpected — and better.

"As a debater, Kerry was a clear, hands-down winner," Lair said. "I was really surprised."

Lair says it was a "political" and not a "collegiate" debate — for example, the level of depth wasn't as extensive as a collegiate debate — so the usual debate standards don't completely apply. But based on those standards, Kerry came out on top.

"Kerry did a much better job at outlining his position and supporting it with examples," he said.

Lair believes Bush fell into some of the common debate traps; for example, he kept reasserting that he believes Kerry is inconsistent.

"I really thought that Bush would win," Lair said. "However, Bush was not able to capitalize on his strengths. . . . I was shocked. It wasn't the outcome I expected."

Another factor that surprised Lair was Kerry's long answers and Bush's short ones. Kerry usually spoke right to the last second on his time allowed, while Bush cut his short by 10 to 15 seconds quite regularly. By the time it was over, Bush may have lost two to three minutes of possible comment.

"You can do a lot in 15 seconds," Lair said.

Bush also lost many of the topics, only winning when they discussed the North Korea nuclear issue. Kerry took all the rest, from the situation in Iraq to homeland security to pre-emptive war, the debate expert said.

"I do think Bush got a little flustered," Lair said. "Kerry seemed to be much more composed."

Despite the challenger's success, Lair said he's not convinced the American public will care who won. "It might be more about image. Bush may well go down in history as winning," Lair said.