He said criminal law has permitted investigators to go to a grand jury to obtain business records that may be relevant to a criminal investigation. But one provision of SAFE would require a higher standard in terrorism cases, he said.

Hatch also opposes a provision in the act that would forbid what are called "delayed notice warrants," something used in all kinds of criminal cases.

"If delayed notification warrants are good enough for drug dealers, white collar criminals and organized crime syndicates, I will have to be convinced that they should not apply to terrorism investigations," he said.

Hatch's position was bolstered by officials past and present of the Justice Department, who point out that the law has never been abused, and that many of the criticisms leveled at the act do not even apply to the act itself.

But others, including prominent conservatives, were equally adamant that the law represents a threat to the very freedoms that define America. And there was the repeated theme that government should not be trusted when freedoms are at stake.

Laura W. Murphy, director of the ACLU Washington legislative office, said the Justice Department "has been less than forthcoming on its use of these new powers, raising questions on what rights have been compromised."

Stranger bedfellows could not be found, but the Utah Eagle Forum finds itself on the same page with the ACLU, even testifying against provisions of the Patriot Act during a Utah hearing.

"It needs to be completely redone, or done away with completely," said Gayle Ruzicka, executive director of the Utah Eagle Forum. "Americans are losing their freedoms, yet illegal aliens come across our borders freely. That really bothers me."

Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Margarita Tapia predicted Congress would be debating national security issues until the very last minute.

The threat of terrorism is a real today as it was on Sept. 11, 2001, Hatch said last week. "Failure to grasp this reality would be a dangerous misunderstanding of our enemies' plans.

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E-mail: spang@desnews.com