While Karras said he won't raise taxes, at the same time it's not realistic for Huntsman to keep talking about cutting the sales tax on food. Karras added he's glad that it appears Huntsman is backing away from the reducing the food tax.

Not so, said Huntsman. "Read my 40-page, 10-point economic development plan," Huntsman urged listeners several times. The state's portion of the sales tax on "our most staple foods" — like those now covered by the federal food stamp program — can be phased out. But you have to do it carefully.

Come on, said Karras. "It's like $250 million" to remove the tax in total — and the state can't afford it.

But he wouldn't remove all of the tax, said Huntsman. Local government would be held harmless from the portion of the tax it collects from grocery stores, said Huntsman.

And there are new state revenue sources that can, as they come on line, fill in the funding gap. "I would hold public education harmless" in whatever tax revenue restructuring scheme he comes up with, promised Huntsman.

Both men said they really don't know where the money will come from for new roads and the rebuilding of existing roads.

While not a sexy subject, "the road question is the most difficult" the next governor will face, said Karras, who at one time headed the state's building board.

Again, neither man advocates raising the state's 24.5-cent-per-gallon gasoline tax, not increased since 1997.

Huntsman said projects in the state's Centennial Highway Fund must be reprioritized. Karras agrees but adds that "billions of dollars" in promised road construction has been made though the money isn't here to keep those promises.

With dozens of sales tax exemptions on the books, maybe it's just time to sunset all of them and rebuild the sales tax structure with a new paradigm, Karras said.

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E-mail: bbjr@desnews.com