Maybe he's naive, he acknowledges, but for him the nitty-gritty of democracy is that ordinary people "are smart enough and morally decent enough for self government." So what we need are not more blue-ribbon panels of well-connected people or more advocates pushing their side of an issue or talk radio blaring raw emotion. What we need, he says, is not debate but dialogue among regular folks.

"Too often we just speak from our emotions. We all have good intentions, but there are all these unquestioned myths and assumptions, and we need a safe place to bring them out and examine them," he says.

So, for Nielsen, political literacy is not just about being able to name the three branches of government but about learning to talk — and listen — to people who have different views, and then to deliberate with them, coming up with solutions based on shared values.

This was the democratic ideal of the ancient Greeks. But America's history reflects a continuing struggle with the idea of pure democracy, from the Founding Fathers' uneasiness with the concept, to President George Bush's desire to export democracy to the Middle East, and then his unhappiness when democratic elections produce victory for a group like Hamas.

The Founding Fathers, Nielsen notes, were "distrustful of the ordinary mass of people." That's why they chose a republic — a representative oligarchy, Nielsen calls it — instead of a pure democracy. The Constitution, Nielsen says, was "a device to keep the ordinary people from really direct involvement. ... They were suspicious of the wisdom of ordinary people." There was no universal suffrage; the president and senators were not elected by popular vote. It wasn't until near the end of his life that Thomas Jefferson could use the word "democracy" in a positive way, Nielsen says.

Over time, though, America has become more democratic in its laws and outlook, he says. At the same time, "our political process and parties have become less democratic." Elections require huge sums of money, which means that a few people, relatively speaking, can control who runs, who wins and who lobbies from behind the scenes and then expects favors in return.

Although the Founding Fathers were suspicious of it, pure democracy is necessary, because without it liberty and equality, and human dignity itself, aren't possible, Nielsen says.