"Sometimes they used to exaggerate our vices and sometimes they used to exaggerate our virtues," Jacoby said. "This takes their breath away. They see us violating our own moral code."

Abu Ghraib was another unforeseen event that further damaged America's reputation.

"We were a city on a hill," Bowen said. "Our principles of human rights and civil rights were a beacon. For us to be shown to be empty ... ."

The professors contend the war also led to a dramatic rise of Iranian influence, allowed the Taliban to reassert itself and created the possibility of a disastrous destabilization of Pakistan.

They also worry that as the war drags on, Americans will become increasingly isolationist, unwilling to back the use of U.S. military power in other places when it is needed.

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One sign of Iraq fatigue: At the start of the war, more than 700 journalists were embedded with U.S. troops. Now there are about a dozen, Jacoby said.

Four years ago, the professors say other faculty and students on campus argued with them. Now discussion has vanished.

"A feature of the debate is how it's trailed off," Jacoby said. "The first phase was an angry phase: 'How dare you?' Then there was a second, prolonged phase of real debate with people who respected us. That lasted until about 14 months ago, and then the fun went out of it. Now, the third phase is stunned silence.

"People who support, who admire, who like the president, just want to change the subject."

Darren Hawkins, who specializes at BYU in human rights, foreign policy and democratization, said the only debate he sees now is whether going to Iraq was a bad idea at the start or a good idea poorly executed.

"I think it was a bad strategy terribly executed," Hawkins said. The professors agree America should remain in Iraq until the region is stable.

"We don't have analogies here," Hyer said. "This isn't Vietnam. This isn't Korea. This isn't World War II. This isn't Lebanon. Every step ahead is a step into the dark."

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