"They get a pass to get back in on their way out," he said. Others would have to get in line for a visa with the others in their native country who wish to migrate to the United States.

Decker asked Jacob about a story that broke last week that Jacob had helped legal immigrants from Chile.

"They were legal," said Jacob, who indicated that his LDS bishop and stake president requested him to help. The stake president told the couple they should work instead of accepting a handout. Jacob said he personally did not review their visas but took them to immigration attorneys for help.

"As far as I know, everything was legal," he said.

Jacob said the man told him this weekend that he first arrived in America on a business visa, then switched to a student visa. His wife was on an F-2 visa, which is not supposed to allow her to work, but immigration attorneys have said the company Jacob's attorney set up is a common way to skirt that restriction.

Decker gave Cannon a chance to attack Jacob on the situation, but he declined.

"That shows the complexity and difficulty of the law," Cannon said. "It shows that we should not take a simple position because of the complexity of the situation."

Jacob attacked Cannon for voting nine times for No Child Left Behind: "He's hurting our people."

Cannon said the votes led to a single reauthorization of the law in 2001 and that he voted for it on principle, thinking it would provide a better tool to analyze schools. Since then, he has said he would abolish No Child Left Behind or change it dramatically, and he has called for the abolition of the federal Department of Education because he wants to put education decisions back in the hands of the states.

Decker criticized both men and the Utah Legislature for the way they handle minority education.

"Up at the state Legislature, they don't care about minority kids any more than you two do," Decker said, adding later, "All I'm hearing is defeatism."

A caller to the show suggested that children without green cards not be allowed to attend American schools, but Cannon explained that courts have settled the law that requires schools to admit them.

"We have to solve the problem in the underlying legal system," he said.

Jacob had a different suggestion.

"We should put kids who don't speak English into a separate class. What's wrong with that?"

Both men agreed that more should be done for U.S. war veterans and expressed support for the war in Iraq.

---

E-mail: twalch@desnews.com