Utah's other astronaut, Don Lind — who went into orbit aboard Space Shuttle Challenger in 1985 — says he firmly backs President Bush's "plan to phase out the shuttle, finish out our treaty obligations on the International Space Station . . . as fast as we can, so that we return to the moon."

Humans should go to Mars "at an appropriate time," he said.

Lind is encouraged by a recent report on exercises that may prevent calcium loss on long spaceflights, such as a trip to Mars. On his own flight, he lost 4 percent of the structural mass of his bones, and it did not come back.

If the news about exercise proves true, it would be a big step forward, he said.

"I think the public does not support the space program the way we did when we first went to the moon," Lind added.

During the Cold War, the space race was a sort of substitute for thermonuclear warfare, and it generated great interest. "Now," Lind said, "the public has taken the attitude, 'Ah, been there, done that, who cares?' "

He cares, for one. He recited a list of technological advances that resulted from the space race, from advanced fabrics to miniaturized electronics.

Asked how he feels about the program's future, Lind said, "Pessimistic."

George Torres, spokesman for ATK Launch Systems — which builds America's space shuttle engines at its plant near Brigham City — said the company's employees are optimistic about the future.

"They're excited about the president's new plans to return to the moon and then go on to Mars after that," he said. ATK has "a major role in that."

The company has begun working on the new Crew Launch Vehicle for the next generation of human exploration of space. "We are doing some initial studies on how we can use the shuttle's solid rocket boosters and transition those into the new Crew Launch Vehicle," he said.

NASA has announced it wants to begin at least test flights by 2010, and send astronauts into space aboard it by 2014. "But their goal is to do that sooner," maybe by 2012 or '13.

A return to the moon is "imminently possible," Torres said. The new vehicle will be twice as large as the Apollo capsules that took astronauts there in the 1960s and early '70s.

It should allow a crew of six to stay on the moon two weeks at a time.

Will humans eventually go to Mars? "I certainly hope so," Torres said. "And that is the goal that the president has set."

There are practical reasons for going to the moon, like setting up telescopes far from earthly lights, he said. And it's in our DNA to explore, he added.

"In realistic terms, in the 22nd century, people will look back and these will be like the baby steps," Torres said. "I would say we're building a foundation for greater exploration of the solar system and beyond."

Wiggins, an enthusiastic amateur astronomer, has no doubt that humankind will leave Earth someday.

"Human exploration of space . . . whether you like the idea or you don't like the idea, it's going to happen," he said. Going into farther space may take longer or be more expensive than some would like. "But it's going to happen."

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