VERNAL — I'm talking to a Uintah Ute outside a local convenience store, and I do mean Uintah Ute. Jeffery Serawop was born a member of the Uintah Tribe of the Ute Indian Nation and spent his teenage school days here in Vernal as a Uintah High School Ute. He and his Ute wife, Linda, live on the Ute Reservation about 30 miles from here. They do not come more Ute than the Serawops.

Even though Jeffery did not attend the University of Utah, which would have made him a triple Ute, I feel he is more than qualified to speak on the subject of schools and Indian mascots.

So I ask him, in light of the NCAA's recent desire that the University of Utah cannot be "Utes" while playing in or hosting national athletic competitions, does a person with his pedigree have any issues with the U. of U. being Utes?

Jeffery doesn't have to think long.

"It doesn't bother me at all," he says. "It would if they didn't show respect, if they used the eagle feathers and things that are spiritual to us. But they don't do that. If you change it (the nickname), you might as well change the name of the state, too. Utah gets its name from Ute."

From a more personal standpoint, Jeffery says he would definitely be upset if, instead of being the Utes, Uintah High were to become, say, the Dinosaurs.

"I'd be offended if they took the name away from the (high) school," he says. "That says who we are and what we're proud of."

As Robert Stearmer, principal at Uintah High School, observes of the NCAA stance: "Maybe you should ask the people you're sticking up for if they're offended."

While the subject has fueled sports talk shows across America, the great mascot controversy hasn't exactly been the talk of the Ute reservation, according to Jeffery and Linda.

"I heard something about our tribal leader saying it's OK to use the name, but that's about it," says Jeffery. "I don't get out as much as I used to, but I haven't heard anyone talking about it."

The No. 1 topic of conversation on the reservation?

"Gangs and crime," he says. "People talk about that a lot. It's a big problem." He scratches his head. "It's Indians against Indians. I don't get it."

He says he does not know what the various rez gangs call themselves, although he does know one name they don't use.

"They don't call themselves Utes," he says.

This isn't to say, Jeffery adds, that there isn't a Ute out there somewhere who isn't offended by the University of Utah using "Ute" as a mascot.

"There could be some who have a problem," he says. "And some who say they don't have a problem today might change their mind and have a problem tomorrow."

He just doesn't know who they are.