HB197 is complicated. Among other things, it would increase the current income tax brackets, the highest bracket going from $8,626 in income to $25,000. It would take away the deductions for federal taxes paid. And it would allow only three exemptions for dependent children for a married couple (you would get five total exemptions). A couple wouldn't get the exemption for a fourth, fifth or any more children.

"Wealth redistribution?" asked Mascaro. No more so than a 4 percent flat-rate income tax that would raise the taxes of lower-income Utahns and give more wealthy citizens big tax breaks, he said.

For example, Mascaro said after the meeting that his bill would increase taxes on a family of four making $500,000 a year by $3,460, but the 4 percent flat-rate tax recommended by Republicans on the income tax subcommittee would cut that same family's state taxes by $5,209 a year.

A family of four making $35,000 a year would see its state income taxes go up by $606 a year under the 4 percent flat-rate plan, but under Jones/Mascaro, taxes would decrease by $185, Mascaro said.

But Bramble and other task force members said no one is going to increase taxes on the poorest of Utahns.

There are a variety of ways to deal with the problem, perhaps the easiest being to just exempt from state income taxes income earned up to $20,000 or even more.

Credits could even be given for sales taxes paid on food and clothing for lower income people, Bramble suggested.

"This (income tax) is one small piece of the whole (tax reform) package," said Neil Ashdown, Huntsman's deputy chief of staff, who sits on the task force.

A simpler, more effective system would allow tax rates to be lowered. And lower sales tax rates would mean less taxes paid by lower-income people, who usually spend nearly all their income buying necessities.

In addition, if the sales tax is extended to personal services — like lawn care, haircuts and so on — wealthier people spend more of their income on those kinds of things and so would be paying more taxes overall, he said.

"Overall, it all averages out," Ashdown said.

But in tax reform debates, it always seems some groups get as many breaks as others get tax hikes.

The committee also heard Thursday about how a gross receipts tax placed on Utah Power and the Intermountain Power Agency the final night of the 1995 Legislature is unfair, likely unconstitutional and should be repealed.

Sen. Howard Stephenson, R-Draper, asked that a bill be prepared to repeal the tax, which last year brought in $13 million to the state. Comparing the way the tax was passed to Hitler's Nazi Germany, Stephenson said, "Never in my 13 years in the Legislature have I seen a more unfair tax imposed."

Finally, it appears that Huntsman's idea of phasing out the current 5 percent corporate income tax seems to have bogged down.

Several GOP legislators said Thursday that perhaps a better way to stimulate Utah's economy would be to make several other changes to the current corporate income tax, including exempting the first $500,000 that a firm makes and/or giving firms a more appealing way to figure their taxes.

In any case, really profitable firms pay, by far, the most corporate income taxes. Statistics show that the most profitable 336 Utah corporations in 2003 paid more than 82 percent of the revenue coming into corporate tax coffers. The other 20,000 corporations paid less than 18 percent of the tax take.

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E-mail: bbjr@desnews.com