Both congressmen testified before the committee on the ills of federal land ownership. Bishop said he will soon introduce legislation that would force the federal government to compensate states for lost property tax revenue — money that would go to schools — because the federal government never lived up to its part of the bargain at statehood to sell off federal lands (5 percent was supposed to go back to the states).

Under Bishop's formula, Utah schools would get $116 million a year. Other Western states would get similar amounts.

Bishop makes the argument that Western states, like Utah, that are predominantly owned by the federal government have tax burdens similar to other states, but they have the lowest education spending at the same time the student growth rate is the highest.

Because of the lack of private lands that can contribute to the tax base, the "West is at an unfair disadvantage," he said. "It's not welfare. It is what's due — to the kids of the West.

"We cannot afford to adequately educate our children if these lands continue to be tied up and the revenue that we could get from them continues to be lost," he added. "The states should either get most of these lands back or get compensated for the money they are losing because of them."

Cannon, who is chairman of the House's Western Caucus, said he knows of no place in the world, save the old Soviet Union, where the federal government owns so much of the land. And he said the federal government has been remiss in its underfunding of everything from pest control to fighting forest fires, costs that are shifted to local governments that cannot afford them.

And he said it was unconscionable that the federal government would have an active campaign to acquire more lands when it doesn't even take care of the lands it has. He noted that an area the size of Florida has been added to federal ownership since John F. Kennedy was president, "and we are not properly taking care of the lands we own."

As much as anything, the oversight hearing was an opportunity for lawmakers, county commissioners and others to vent about long-standing grievances with the federal government over everything from the Endangered Species Act to the Wilderness Act to who actually owns the dirt trails across public lands.

The refrain from public officials is one that has been echoed for decades, and the calls for shifting federal lands to private ownership or boosting federal assistance to rural counties are not issues that have generated much support outside of those rural communities.

"Most of the people moving out of our county are the younger families and young people who are starting families somewhere else because they cannot support a family on the employment they can find in our county," Dodds said. "One of the costs, though difficult to quantify, is the loss of quality of life of our communities as a result of our young people, especially young families, moving away.

"As with any community, our children are our greatest natural resource," he added.

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